Idea: City Expansion

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Moirear Sian
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Post by Moirear Sian »

Thalodos Artemetus wrote:All stay in trollsbane, because it's to expensive or annoying travelling somewhere else.
This is incorrect.

I think I am pretty much the only person left who still likes the size and design of the current map (in fact - I love it). All I have to say that could be improved on that is that there is a more well-developed system of publically accessible teleporters or such, just outside of the major settlements and connecting them for quick transit in between the four towns, but keeping the general overland and countryside something that still has to be explored. Because aside from the many things some people deem bad about the map, I can see alot of good things as well.

I'd like to express my thanks to the design team of the current game map, it's been awesome fun to explore this map, and I've been admiring the layout of things as well (and still haven't seen it all yet...).

PS: When around 20+ people are on, I actually have alot of random encounters with people out in wilderness. Granted, it's a surprise, but that would be the idea, eh? The roleplaying in these encounters has also always been a blast, because the people who are surprised are most oftenly scared shitless due to sheer surprise. *totes a Brigandine armor* ;)
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Thalodos Artemetus
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Post by Thalodos Artemetus »

Moirear Sian wrote:
Thalodos Artemetus wrote:All stay in trollsbane, because it's to expensive or annoying travelling somewhere else.
This is incorrect.

I think I am pretty much the only person left who still likes the size and design of the current map (in fact - I love it). All I have to say that could be improved on that is that there is a more well-developed system of publically accessible teleporters or such, just outside of the major settlements and connecting them for quick transit in between the four towns, but keeping the general overland and countryside something that still has to be explored. Because aside from the many things some people deem bad about the map, I can see alot of good things as well.

I'd like to express my thanks to the design team of the current game map, it's been awesome fun to explore this map, and I've been admiring the layout of things as well (and still haven't seen it all yet...).

PS: When around 20+ people are on, I actually have alot of random encounters with people out in wilderness. Granted, it's a surprise, but that would be the idea, eh? The roleplaying in these encounters has also always been a blast, because the people who are surprised are most oftenly scared shitless due to sheer surprise. *totes a Brigandine armor* ;)
You've missed my point, i do to enjoy the new map, all i ask for is an easier and cheaper way to get around it.
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Moirear Sian
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Post by Moirear Sian »

No no, I think I do see your point quite well. I only wrote that about the map because alot of people have expressed how much they loathe this giant new map in the past months up and still yet till today.

If you re-read what I wrote, you'll see I also wrote that I think teleportation should be something like an open "gate" system in between the five towns. Not a gate standing inside of the towns (you'd still have to leave the settlement and walk out along a road for a bit because logically, people of the individual towns would not want such a security hazard like teleportation straight into their town centers). But the way I see it, it should be free to use these "gates", whatever is used to represent their function. :P

I don't know, from what I've understood you can buy teleportation tickets now? I didn't even bother looking for them... exploring was more fun and I didn't feel like wasting the copper on them. Buying them would be a lose/lose-situation for me.
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Misjbar
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Post by Misjbar »

Or maybe the books are permanent, but they cost a lot to buy? It would make sense the wealthy and powerfull have more and expanded means of transportation then the poor.
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Post by Keikan Hiru »

I don't think of the Teleportation "Books" as real books, more like a scroll.
Scroll of Townportal's often vanish after usage in other games.

I doubt that you will get a carryable, perma-teleporter (unless you are a powerful mage).
Teleportation is, as far as I belive, considered as an alternative way of traveling, bound to costs and restrictions, and not as main form of travel.

Like you I can imagine static permateleporters, but I hope they come with a weight restriction, because this way you are still bound to either use your scroll of Townportal or walk the way to the town you want to get to, if you carry plenty of ressources or (valueable) goods with you.

And don't forget, walking also means the possiblity of your character being able to rob someone on (hopefuly soon to be) traderoutes.
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Mempriclus
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Post by Mempriclus »

I dont think travel would be a problem for most people if it became a one off occurance. As it is, everything centres around trollsbane, and as such all trips are return, someone goes off to say Vanima to buy a plain, or Greenbriar to buy a bag but they always go back to Trollsbane afterwards.

Personally I think travel should be made HARDER, and that the towns themselves should be improved, that way, travel will be more like it was in the old days, i.e. something you had to plan well. If you put something in the different towns to make people stay there, and harder for them to travel in between, it is more likely that when they do travel to a different town, they will settle there.
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Post by Keikan Hiru »

Mempriclus wrote:If you put something in the different towns to make people stay there, [...], it is more likely that when they do travel to a different town, they will settle there.
Thats good !
What for example ? ;)

From my experiance they start to complain why thier town has a disadvantage compared to another one.
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Isilwen
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Post by Isilwen »

I think that more wildlife in between towns would make it more interesting. Maybe some dangerous things as well, bears maybe? Angry foxes? :P Killer bunnies is a definate :wink:

Seriosuly, though..wildlife might even encourage people to travel more. The only reason I hate the long walks from place to place is because there's almost nothing out there- aside from the occasional growth of new trees, nothing changes
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Post by Markous »

Narmir wrote:I think that more wildlife in between towns would make it more interesting.
In work. :)
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Isilwen
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Post by Isilwen »

Markous wrote:
Narmir wrote:I think that more wildlife in between towns would make it more interesting.
In work. :)
Yaay :o
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Moirear Sian
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Post by Moirear Sian »

The way I'd like to see it on the long run:

- low grade, cheap "teleportation" between towns - Ferry rides, cost only 1-5 copper per ride, but have the longest route from any town to any "station" (which is always at a river bay or sea-/oceanside)
- medium grade teleportation - scrolls; more direct, fast, and efficient than travelling by ferry; costs already a whole big deal more than a ferry ride but relieves of the necessity of having as long a travel as [by foot+ferry]
- high grade teleportation - available only to powerful mages; like scrolls, but simply available as a difficult spell, giving the "spellcaster class" a certain perk.

Personally, I don't like the idea of an item giving permanent/re-usable teleportation ability. I think that would do better as a high-class mage's perk.
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Faladron
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Post by Faladron »

How about a set of portals leading from and towards every town, not roleplayed out properly and just there for the convenience of us players? :D
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

Faladron wrote:How about a set of portals leading from and towards every town, not roleplayed out properly and just there for the convenience of us players? :D
In work. Has a very low priority, though.
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Thalodos Artemetus
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Post by Thalodos Artemetus »

Estralis Seborian wrote:
Faladron wrote:How about a set of portals leading from and towards every town, not roleplayed out properly and just there for the convenience of us players? :D
In work. Has a very low priority, though.
Really? dji said it wasn't going to happen.
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Faladron
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Post by Faladron »

:shock: Actualy I didn't mean it that serious but... woohoo, whatever.
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Moirear Sian
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Post by Moirear Sian »

Thalodos Artemetus wrote:
Estralis Seborian wrote:
Faladron wrote:How about a set of portals leading from and towards every town, not roleplayed out properly and just there for the convenience of us players? :D
In work. Has a very low priority, though.
Really? dji said it wasn't going to happen.
Approximately a year ago, alot of people were saying that more NPCs than Eliza and Sam wasn't going to happen.
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Cain Freemont
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Post by Cain Freemont »

A year ago, a lot of people were saying a lot of things weren't going to happen.

Brought to you by the same people that make horoscopes.
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Pendar
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Post by Pendar »

One of the most exciting "advancements" in my eyes will be depots placed around the map. With a depot one can actually move a group or character out of town functionally. Currently I have characters who would seldom be seen who are nearly loitering in towns as they need a depot.

Also just a thought I have always felt that the difficulty in acquiring a building or map change in game has been overly high. It is these buildings that let players leave a mark in game that create factions and guilds. Now with a key system it would surely be "easy" to logg how much use a building or guild hall has seen in a month. It is not as if something can’t fall into decay or be deleted.
From my perspective as player giving more control over "geography" to players with in reason, even this is GM controlled/moderated is a direction Illarion really needs to move towards.
It really fits with our "ethos" and ties into the rise and fall of characters and kingdoms, guild rivalry and cooperation and the other factors we would all like to see in this game.
sian wrote:I think I am pretty much the only person left who still likes the size and design of the current map (in fact - I love it). I
Incorrect i also love the huge map and soon it is going to be full of so much potenial.

Brian
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Aegohl
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Post by Aegohl »

We've got cute little bunny wabbits, and deer, and wolves, and panthers, oh my!

Anyways, I have plans for stable teleportation. I intend to create a sort of guild that will transport you on the cheap, but they'll be a little ways from town. Your teleport books will be for when you are in dungeons or far from the guildhouses.
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Jori
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Post by Jori »

I like the huge map too.

About the idea of getting people into different towns a lot more...
Have some sort of advantage to each town so maybe each one has something (or several somethings) that all the other towns dont have. This would require people to go to different towns. Once people got used to going to different towns, thee would be a steady supply of people in each town so they wouldnt go unused.
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

Jori wrote:I like the huge map too.

About the idea of getting people into different towns a lot more...
Have some sort of advantage to each town so maybe each one has something (or several somethings) that all the other towns dont have. This would require people to go to different towns. Once people got used to going to different towns, thee would be a steady supply of people in each town so they wouldnt go unused.
Also, in work ;-) The main concept will be that every town has two traders and those traders will buy and sell different goods; like, you have to travel to Greenbriar to buy scythes and grain but you have to travel to Silverbrand to sell the bread you get from baking. This might sound like a hassle, but you will see, it motivates alot if you know you can sell everything you produce... somewhere.
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Thalodos Artemetus
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Post by Thalodos Artemetus »

On a slightly related note, there are several suggestions for the new Tol Vanima map on the tol vanima forums.

ANother suggestion for the empty city crisis is to get more players. I'm sure there are several rpgs that would like to exchange links etc? and i know a few sites that hold free advertisements for free mmorpgs.
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Jori
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Post by Jori »

@Estralis
That sounds great! :mrgreen:

At least as long as people will be able to actually get to the merchants at each town and talk to them :)
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Isilwen
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Post by Isilwen »

Thalodos Artemetus wrote:On a slightly related note, there are several suggestions for the new Tol Vanima map on the tol vanima forums.

ANother suggestion for the empty city crisis is to get more players. I'm sure there are several rpgs that would like to exchange links etc? and i know a few sites that hold free advertisements for free mmorpgs.
That works, I have a small rpg forum that i'd be happy to display a link to Illarion on. I've already gotten a few people to join :o
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Poots
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Post by Poots »

whoa whoa whoa, i don't want to have to walk around this entire map all day! And I don't want to pay 30 coins to go buy a 5 coin tool! I say either you get free teleporting, or each town has everything (except for a few things unique) I mean, think about why troll's Bane is popular. because its in the middle, it has everything (mines, workshops pigs,....). When i went to green briar, what did it have? a depot and farm land. i didn't want to be a farmer. so i went to troll's bane where everyone is and i could do anything i wanted! even farm 8) and really think about haveing to walk across the entire map all day (i hate to walk from troll's bane to the grey castle even :( ) or paying 30 for a one time use book plus 30 coins to get back

i also really want my own house :P i don't want it to be like 1000000 coins either. i say it should be hard to get, but not immpossible for 1 guy. you could build a house out in the woods or make towns bigger. you could also make it so you have to have played illairion for a certain amount of time to be able to buy a house(no people making an account,building a house, and then quiting illairion). and if you don't log on for 1 month, your house is delted BUT all or at least half of the materials are returned. And if you get a house, you should be able to lock it, or else its just a place you decorated (locks can be picked, doors bashed). Thats all i can think of right now and its late so i'm tired *yawn*. but theres my ideas on this subject
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Pendar
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Post by Pendar »

First up I think it is important to remember that any proposal, request or comment should remain respectful to the fact that we have many players and playing styles.
For example I don’t mind walking, or traveling with a group this is after all an adventure game. So a little adventuring is not so horrible.
You how ever seem very adverse to the idea :)
What’s my point the quickest way to get disregarded is to lay down a list of self gratifying border line demands. Take a moment and think about the implication of a request or demand or else you will find it gets ignored, not jumping on you just an observation.
The point you make that is very valid is that Trollsbane is the epicenter of the island to much so. It is not healthy for our game long term to have all the RP centered on town for numerous reasons,
Pendar could become an evil dictator tomorrow. The town could be taken over by evil forces or simply your character could be banned from town. The game is entirely player run in any one of those instances no GM would intervene unless a rule was broken.
With out any life on the rest of the map we draw closer and closer to a graphical chat program as potential villains, opposition or simply any character not created to fit Trollsbane loses interest.

Currently the map is a little bland how ever upcoming updates will see us all having a far more exciting map to explore. The current huge map was a massive leap forward for the game the next one promises to be the next step in the games evolution as it becomes a game to truly explore.

Its not about having to spend 30 coins every time its about finding people to split the cost, perhaps some player traders will start bringing items from greenbriar to Trollsbane and selling them at a profit and vice versa.
If we hate traveling so we would be foolish not to support these people if they did.
a random example trader in varishikar who was say the only npc who bought wands, would potenially lead varishikar to have a strong base of carpenters. If varishikar had a trader who also bought some basic weapons from smiths.
Suddenly varishikar could give Trollsbane the finger we don’t need you at all.
If the orcs had a orc trader who only spoke orcish perhaps he would sell inexpensive double axes. Giving the orcs a racial advantage just for being green and smelly :P
Variation at base is the key and i know some people will say yes but we only have 7 players online most time now you wish to make it harder for those 7. How ever if the game is developed to support a low player base, then it is doomed to have a low player base.
With the new client and giant steps this game has taken in a mere year not to mention the progress it has made so far, Illarion is truly poised to become amongst the finest graphical role play enforced muds on the internet full stop.
So to build the game to cater for low server activity is about as smart as something similar one could do with a firearm and foot :)

As to buildings I am sure the devs would love to supply it now how ever the complexity of scripting it even to my layman mind is boggling.
Player controlled construction will be one of the huge evolutionary leaps this game one day takes and i believe it will happen. Because the game is developed by the kind of people who don’t dictate what areas are PVP and which are not, the game is run by GM's who allow players the freedom to build there own rp concepts and our player base generally are the sort of role-players who wish to communally build and or watch a world develop. So I’m sure we will have housing one day
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

@ Poots

Person walks around the map, on his own tired.. Get attacked by theives, who rob his items...

THATS RP..

contrary to:

Person teleports, person teleports back

the end.

NOt Rp

@ House > What would be the point of living alone? GUild houses are best, they are actually USED...
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Pendar
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Post by Pendar »

Right below a post suggesting that a courteous attitude is preferable, lol.
hadrian wrote:contrary to:

Person teleports, person teleports back

the end.

NOt Rp
Teleporters arrive at the same place so an enterprising thief could wait around the teleporter sights to rob some one, that is RP.
A weak character with an agility of 3 and const of 5 who is rich decides to walk all the way to greenbriar a walk that could take some hours game time. That is equally unrealistic rp, I am unsure who gave you the role-play medal of merit that you suddenly are able in such certain terms to dictate what constitutes rp and what does not. How ever from my point of view i see your statement as ill conceived and utterly incorrect

Also Hadrian I vemently disagree if housing ever becomes implemented on the server in a way that is accessible to "majority" players I would strongly advocate that it be available to 1-100 players.
Who are "we" to dictate rp and perhaps a house with a singular owner, would wish to entertain guests, secret meetings, dinner parties or romantic forays.
The reason that you need 5 or more active players right now is that a building involved a lot of staff work. As such the time cannot just be set aside for one player constantly. So to entertain one player wish would be a show of favoritism.
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Post by Llama »

A person who is rich is rich enough to hire people to escort him... and that is more Rped... normally richer people were attacked by large gangs; to take care of the amount of guards.

Its true that gates land at the same place, but then it would be problamatical, because a person lands in tb; he runs in town, gets killed.. then theyre's the "he killed me in town *whine whine*" thing.

"Entertain guests, secret parties ect..." all of these require a mass of people, hence the use of "guild house"
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Dónal Mason
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Post by Dónal Mason »

Hadrian, teleporting IS rp. If you have the money, use the quick and safe transport. If you're poor, use the slower, more dangerous option that we know as walking.
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