Illarion.org

Aegohl wrote: The problem, at the end of the day, is that you're writing in a different language than we're reading. You aren't posting things in a way in which we can understand it. We need a definate "x should be y" and you're instead saying "a was better than b." We don't have "a" to reference anymore. There is no script museum, and besides, we switched scripting languages.

Simply can't let this go unattended to.

If we say "A" was better than "B", then that means "X" should be "Y" if "A=X" and "B=Y". If "A" does not exist, then it still does through all the views that the older players have often expressly.. uh.. expressed. We do talk about the old days. Maybe someone is just missing something, or words are going unseen? I know I've spoken countless times of how the game used to be, and should be to a degree. On the technical side, this is not mainly a changeable thing. However, the technical changes have brought about so MANY things that could have remained the same. If it weren't for the wipe [a very unavoidable thing, I know] there is absolutely no telling who would be in power. But I can guarantee that it would be someone with real RP experience with Illarion, not a relative newbie, or even one with mild experience. The technical changes have forced everyone onto the same skill field, which has caused a scramble for power. This is an example of how technical changes have completely and undeniably changed the face of RP for the future.

Understood (and sorry I tried to delete this and bring it to PM like you did), and yet, I'm still waiting for "x should be y." I'm practically so excited to hear a proposal that sounds like that that I wish I could guarantee that the moment you make it it will be implemented.

However, I just make maps (wishful thinking).

The players dictate the roleplay, not the GM's *shrugs*

Aristeaus wrote:The players dictate the roleplay, not the GM's *shrugs*

I wrote:If it weren't for the wipe [a very unavoidable thing, I know] there is absolutely no telling who would be in power. But I can guarantee that it would be someone with real RP experience with Illarion, not a relative newbie, or even one with mild experience. The technical changes have forced everyone onto the same skill field, which has caused a scramble for power. This is an example of how technical changes have completely and undeniably changed the face of RP for the future.

Its really only one example of several. I don't want to discuss this though. Just food for thought.

Hmm Aristeaus still ruled the north and technically still does, the aspect of skill has never come into the equation. Im afraid my chars dont have skill as i no longer have the time to make it so. And the same reason goes for Aristeaus recent departure from the isle. A lack of time with myself due to work and rl etc has made the task of ruleing the land impossible, not due to skill, but just due to time..

*eats Aristeaus' food for thought and walks off, rubbing his now full stomach*

Yummy.

(I get your point, but I don't really want to keep 'beating a dead horse')

Aristeaus wrote:Hmm Aristeaus still ruled the north and technically still does, the aspect of skill has never come into the equation. Im afraid my chars dont have skill as i no longer have the time to make it so. And the same reason goes for Aristeaus recent departure from the isle. A lack of time with myself due to work and rl etc has made the task of ruleing the land impossible, not due to skill, but just due to time..

A little sidenote to that; Sian was supposed to hold a duel with Aristeaus if which he won it, Aristeaus would have had to leave Darlok's castle to the Bloodskulls so they could level it completely. If losing, there would have been a bloody riot between Varshikar and the 'Skulls. Well, then came the wipe.

a) Pretty much all 'Skulls quit playing, RP redundant
b) I quickly noticed that with a little playing, Sian was more "beefed up" than Aristeaus and thanks to skill cap he wouldn't be able to catch up ever with his RL schedule, and it was clear that before the wipe, Aristeaus would have won the duel one way or another, actually making the situation a bit more interesting. So I postponed the thing and dropped it completely, because it was rendered beyond pointlessness and I didn't want to create an absurd scene where Sian defeats his *mentor* with a few stupid hits after CTRL-click and no time for RP.

But yeah, bottom line - some skill is needed for ruler characters, although it's secondary to some player qualities and the factor of available time. Basically, you can play and form of character who's pulling strings, all you have to do is spend about 5 minutes in-game per day and do the rest of guild/political organization per PMs, IMs, etc.

It's actually true what you're both saying; the wipe DID bring big changes to the roleplaying, but it's also true that we dictate the roleplaying as the players. For example, no magic means no powerful sorcerers or witches or anything of the sorts. With some of the old characters of those types things might look completely different, roleplaying-wise. Not to mention politically. Varshikar i.e. was practically bordering onto magocracy, something that was put on ice for months now because of magic not being implemented in the new client that came with the wipe.

The duel haha yes i remember that. Pfft you can still have it if you like when i return Im sure i'll still woop ya

Nop wrote: If it happens so often - ever thought about doing something about it? Like posting a sign?

Yes, a half year ago inside a 10 pages long thread

Now I made a new one at the top of the guild topic. But i can not believe, that it helps. The reason: I do not believe that newbies start to read the guild board before they play.


In the most cases newbies are in the castle. That is right. I tell them something about the castle and about the house rules. In nearly all cases the problem is solved by this. They understand the reasons. Sometimes they continues and asks for a permission, to use the tools - Often, in collecting of a donation i say "Yes, of course. Work here, as much as you can. Maybe if you are ready i can buy some of your goods?" - nearly all smithes get these sentences.

It is not a question of signs at the boards. It is a question of being active ingame. If no inhabitant of a building, town or territory is ingame, noone can know the house rules. Etablished people knows the rules, because they know the owners and talked to them in the past. If they act against them, they know about their action.

This is another one of those threads I cannot stand to read all of, because every post is repeating the same thing.

"Wahaaahhhhhhhhhh this building is mine, pay me, n00b, I own it, go away, we want it locked."

PEOPLE OF THE GREY ROSE:

It is just a fucking game.


Point to Lennier:

In the most cases newbies are in the castle. That is right. I tell them something about the castle and about the house rules. In nearly all cases the problem is solved by this. They understand the reasons. Sometimes they continues and asks for a permission, to use the tools - Often, in collecting of a donation i say "Yes, of course. Work here, as much as you can. Maybe if you are ready i can buy some of your goods?" - nearly all smithes get these sentences.

So in essence you say to someone entirely confused, as there is no real tutorial for illarion, nor is their a truely accesable map and rules saying which buildings they can and cannot enter, to give you money or get out? I believe the whole point of this post is that, when someone doesen't know the lame "House rules" its just a little bit intimidating to say "MINE GIMME MONEY OLOLOLOLZ"


Theres a line between gaming and realism. I can understand if it was a violent orc come to slaughter all the knights, but come on, the average person?


I agree to immerse your characters as much as possible in the world, but I don't agree you should just shut off half the buildings to players and say "well if you want to explore; don't get caught, because we won't let you." And then have no way for the newer players to know this. Not everyone reads the guild board, and not everyone reads the entire RPG Board. And a small percentage goes to moonsilver altogether.

The Returner wrote:"House rules" its just a little bit intimidating to say "MINE GIMME MONEY OLOLOLOLZ".

The point of Varshikar is to intimidate

Pay or get owned by Arist, Jeremy, or the lich in the basement

cain wrote:there is absolutely no telling who would be in power. But I can guarantee that it would be someone with real RP experience with Illarion, not a relative newbie, or even one with mild experience

I am left to assume this was a referral to me as of course any one else with actual power in game are indeed old and respected players. Yet contraire to what one might expect I am left remarkably un-offended or even phased.
Those who know me either IC or personally are aware it is not really a role Pendar or the PO relishes, how ever in the months since the wipe no one has gone to lengths to create a character that is politically minded. very few have come to me with IC ideas for running town or made any challenge on Pendar's rule.
Basically I have long maintained that the guard serves one purpose to stop random Pking in town. Trollsbane remains a relatively new player friendly space and a place people can and apparently are magnetically drawn to congregate with out fear of death.

I am now going to take this one further, what kind of game do we actually want. A rpg based free for all akin to UO pk shards with many ownerless buildings the losest ties to any history and a graphic chat with ctrl-click function.
What has brought me back to illarion over numerous games I play is simply this a player run political system that breeds, wars ,feuds revolutions and general chaos.
This is what sets illarion apart that players can touch the game world and change it irreversibly.
I am still not seeing what you actually want?
How ever most of the towns laws serve a direct purpose and no more.
Trees, don’t cut then don’t plant them or else soon it we will have a complete mess of tress so you can move. When some one thinks out side eliza's shop would make an awesome orchid.
Don’t kill people....well duh?

Beyond that i really dont see this massive restriction, absolutely some of the guard’s rp characters who are complete A holes. Point of fact that should breathe some rp some conflict one thing we do not do is PK. often to a point of completely ridiculous scenes playing out as "we" won’t cut X down.
If one is tossed from town, make something of it. Logg a new character or appeal and lets have a trial.

returner wrote:So in essence you say to someone entirely confused, as there is no real tutorial for illarion, nor is their a truely accesable map and rules saying which buildings they can and cannot enter, to give you money or get out? I believe the whole point of this post is that, when someone doesen't know the lame "House rules" its just a little bit intimidating to say "MINE GIMME MONEY OLOLOLOLZ"

Well it is meant to be intimidating this is a "hard core" rp game it is about experimenting and experiencing roles as a character. The world is harsh and that’s the charm of Illarion. I really don’t see the problem with this rp exchange and still question who would enter a castle wander around, beggin working and then be shocked to be thrown out. I for one would not. Again i say there are forges all over and trollsbane's remains open to all.

tetraxas wrote:5. The Hard-Headed Role-play has become such an abused word that whenever anything that the OLD players dont like or not in favor, They use the word, " it is Roleplay, dont like it, LEAVE ''.

No you really have i feel misunderstood the principal the game runs on. It is indeed a game with a character hierarchy how ever the point is not to turn you away from the game or ruin peoples fun. Your character could adapt to this in so many ways, your tale of woe if you brought it town would get you into so many role-play exchanges with various characters.
You got an "experience" with Lennier who was perhaps rp his character was moody or short tempered that day. Work with it could have been an orc and you would have got pked.

3. The game is not a game for everyone, its a game where People who wants to join HAS to accept the Domination of the OLD players or LEAVE.

Absolutely would you like a link to some free form rpgs where you can instantly rp yourself as the queen of "where ever? No old player wishes to hound a new player from the game, no old player wishes to spoil a new player’s game fun. How ever we rp by a strict code of remaining IC, as such in character you just learnt not to go into the castle. Basically illarion you start off with a clean slate and advance your character in what ever direction you wish, including there social circle and as such standing. This is a charm i would hate to lose in game as then indeed my time playing it would be over. We build it, we run it, we live it how ever briefly for a few hours when we logg on.

This entire post is full of so many issues that I cant help to cover them all.
So in closing the only thing lost at the wipe was some amazing players stopped playing and the fabric of the game unraveled itself entirely. We no longer had opposition simply a "trollsbane". No one aside from a very few admirable people have attempted to change this but everyone is fast to bemoan it.
I am lucky I have time to play Illarion intensively perhaps that is the only qualification for the level of entirely imaginary power my completely fictional pixel has obtained in an entirely make believe world. Perhaps those so discontent with the way this game has moved on a non technical level need to find new ways to interact with it or right it off as a now lost treasure.
Which ever but at base we have a forum with a very vocal 20% of the player base all with very different ideas hammering out a situation that is not about to find an ooc resolution....
Is it?
Brian

I just have to point out that you aren't the only person I was referring to, Pendar. And it wasn't meant to be insulting or anything. I'm aware that there are very talented roleplayers in this game, both new and old, but I still stand by the comment that an old Illarion player stands much higher chance of being in power, due to the establishing of character, accumulation of information, wealth, approval, reputation, etc. .. The wipe basically turned everyone into newbies, so even the characters that are from old had none of the realistic advantages that the hardly IG explained character wipe completely ripped away. The Grey Rose still had power. But that's because they owned a building as is. Everyone else, many factions included, were left to rot, simply because they had no means of regrouping other than tracking each other down. The Grey Rose simply had to go to their castle.

And no, before anyone jumps down my throat, *thwarts off Grey Rose assassins with a military pike* this is not a slam against the Grey Rose, not that I care if it is or not. Its a slam against the detriment that the wipe had to the future of RP as it was currently standing. Simply because people couldn't fight for crap (something that makes no sense what-so-ever, other than the old and weak excuse of "an act of the gods"), others were able to ascend where otherwise, they undoubtedly would not have.

Frankly, I'm quite content with Pendar ruling Troll's Bane. There's a lot of interesting interaction that comes from it. But I won't deny the fact that what we have now is completely technical-based.

I would like to counter this simply saying,
The wipe happened, Arist kept north, Lennier the rose and John left ending in the election of Pendar as captain the day of the wipe. Actually wanting no part of it he ended up taking it as IC he had promised John he would remain with the guard.
Appreciated John may not have left with out the wipe occurring on the PO knows...

What actually occurred was the hierarchy in game unraveled beneath the powers the north went dead, we are now only seeing a sembelance of an orc tribe emerging and trollsbane happily fell under Pendars lead.
I held that power with Lennier for a short time who stepped down soon after.
Where things went a little a skew is that I have been uncontested mostly and this is not due to amassing a huge force and crushing any resistance this would still have merit.For the records Pendar was not strongest and remains a mediocre warrior really. So the point no one could fight me for it is moot, the fact no one even tried is more worrying.

cain wrote:but I still stand by the comment that an old Illarion player stands much higher chance of being in power, due to the establishing of character, accumulation of information, wealth, approval, reputation

Despite the fact that Illarion tends to be a little clique based I must argue that statement. Instead saying that RP is what will eventually dictate your player standing I say this as I was playing some 5 months before the wipe. Even with out the wipe i would have potentially been in the running for captain, Stephen Rothman came out of no place and had the strongest guild on the isle. I am really not despite how it may sound attempting to blow my own horn. Simply from playing various characters and very seldom pulling ooc strings to advance them. I must stand by my position RP will always dictate your standing in this game. Time, time, time and oh did i mention time. The major reason pendar achieved what he did i was on with him so much. I knew everything happening in game, i knew everyone in game. I was able to attend to all issues in game....yeah good times

I would be curious to hear where others ascended, as my biggest concern with the game at the moment is no one seems to want to do anything we have no guilds and factions emerging. We have no opposing power at all just trollsbane. My personal biggest disappointment in the game currently for sure.
Brian

P.s no worries i truly wasn’t offened and the fact you didnt mean it so merely affirmed my assumption reading the lines was correct.

Pendar wrote:my biggest concern with the game at the moment is no one seems to want to do anything

*Somebody* has plans.

Pendar wrote:we have no guilds and factions emerging.

We don't have many players online at a time anyway.

Pendar wrote:We have no opposing power at all just trollsbane.

There are always times of war and peace, but perhaps it's worth a thought that if everybody purges any opposition by its roots there will never be any full-grown opposition, ever. This is worth considering for many players; the basic thing is deciding "do we want to favor strict realism and kill off opposition before it can grow to any serious size and keep things going the same way?" or "do we want to allow an opposition rising in the shadows and see what happens?" Truly, all this depends on the players, it's not like the GMs are standing in the way of it, in the contrary.

Fact, as said many times by many others, opposition of the Troll's Bane cluster is always poorly organized. You'll either have to work on it yourself and virtually shoot your own kneecaps off by having one of your characters cut into another, or you'll have to be patient and wait, I can't do everything overnight, especially not alone.

Rome wasn't built in a bloody day. Cut me some friggin' slack will ya.