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Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

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Faladron
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Post by Faladron »

I see, oportunities were being given to your character and he seized them as soon as they popped up. The exact time period passing before doesn't matter for the result and the way he achieved it though.

So if special events occur which "justify" and "back up" why someone would learn new things, skills or magics then it's alright to criss-cross and set for new fields to occupy your character with.

Asuming that others might be quicker learners than Galim, or they simply don't want to spend 3 years playing one character, characters may learn more than one profession aslong as there's a reasonable and fitting background behind it, maybe in less time than Galim here for not everyone has the patience and life expectancy of a dwarf. :)

Could you agree on that?

If so, there shouldn't be any "limit" on how many different things one may learn as long as he roleplays how and why he achieved them.
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Sylathen
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Post by Sylathen »

Well to be frank, Yes Faladron. Allthough i dont think Syla will change ;)

Sylathen, being a Paladin, only knows fighting skills like conc/dodge/slash/and parry. He will also learn healing spells, defensive spells, and holy spells As Halik(Markous i think ;) never really knew..) and Syla are Paladins, they have every right to train together and have a cup of tea together every once in a while to see how the other is progessing through his studies. But yes, training alot in PVP format is Power Gaming. But also another side note. Paladins, as they fight the holy wars, are ENTITLED to fight Mummies and Skeletons as they are Unholy, therefore seeing a Paladin in the Tombs is NOT power gaming, it is simple filling their role in training. But if that Paladin shall lets say, Picks up the items in excessive mannor and sells them, that is Farming and a form of Power gaming. If he takes what he needs to survive and a little extra, so be it.

Just making things clear for the Two Paladins in game :roll: as we constantly get blamed for power gaming..

~*Noko*~
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Galim
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Post by Galim »

It depends on the background and role too. For a dwarf it isn't unusual to be a smith. just read Tialdins posting about the dwarven culture. To be a smith is normal for a dwarf. And to become as a dwarven smith a priest of irmorom, god of craftmenship and creator of the dwarves, it isn't unusual too. And be honest, how many dwarves do you know who aren't able a bit to swing an axe around?
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Salathe
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Post by Salathe »

Back to the poison weapons... A knight wanting to be skilled in the use of poison weapons is fine, a knight wanting to be skilled in the use of coming from behind and forcing poison down there throats isnt. Salathe wants to be proficient in using every type of weapon he has always been, he's not so much a knight as a fighter. And just because salathe WANTS that doesnt mean i powergame, i cant use conc/ranged/daggers/poison weapons for shit =P, maybe in 3 years i'll have them all mastered
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Galim
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Post by Galim »

wrong salathe. you want to be skilled in the SKILL posion. because a pison dagger is still a dagger. so it is the slashing or puntrue skill. same with poison sword. the skill just means the ability to poison someone with the sword. so salathe dont want to be able to swing the sword, but to poison someone with it. see the skill as a skill of the knowledge how to use poison, where at the body to use it, and which way to use it is the most effective.

having the skill poison dont mean to be good with the weapon poisonsword, just to be good with the skill to poison someone.
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Salathe
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Post by Salathe »

well yes, poisoning with a weapon, poison weapons, thats what i mean by being good with poison weapons
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Galim
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Post by Galim »

so your knight dont want to be able to fight with a poisonsword but to use it to poison your opponents?

and see, there it doesn't work with your role as a knight.
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Cain Freemont
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Post by Cain Freemont »

Galim wrote:so your knight dont want to be able to fight with a poisonsword but to use it to poison your opponents?

and see, there it doesn't work with your role as a knight.

I think Salathe already answered the question you're asking.
Salathe wrote:Salathe wants to be proficient in using every type of weapon he has always been, he's not so much a knight as a fighter.
I don't see how a knight shouldn't use a poisoned sword with intent to poison someone... isn't that the point of a poisoned weapon? To poison someone?
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Salathe
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Post by Salathe »

Well Galim, then i guess you believe using a fire weapon, with the chance that the other person could get burned is the exact same as sneaking up and lighting there pants on fire eh?

and i will say it again, Salathe wants to learn the poison skill, so when he uses poison weapons, that the poison can do its job. And that is completely different from sneaking up behind someone and forcing poison down there mouth. Which salathe does NOT want to do

And when did i ever say i didnt want to be good with a sword, just poisoning?
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Galim
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Post by Galim »

If you don't see and understand the difference between a firesword and a poisonsword than i fear, i can't help you at all.
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Salathe
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Post by Salathe »

if you cant see the difference between poisoning with a weapon and with a bottle, i dont know why i bothered trying to get you to understand
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Galim
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Post by Galim »

There is not much difference. both is sneaky and unhonorable. just because you use a weapon to poison someone and see how he dies of it doesn't make it better than sneak behind him and give him the poison.
:roll:
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Cain Freemont
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Post by Cain Freemont »

Galim wrote:There is not much difference. both is sneaky and unhonorable. just because you use a weapon to poison someone and see how he dies of it doesn't make it better than sneak behind him and give him the poison.
:roll:

You still confront your enemy face to face with a sword (unless you're going to stab them through the back), so there is still the aspect of an honorable fight. If both parties use similar methods of combat, then there is absolutely nothing dishonorable about the fight.

If a fight were just agreed to (meaning it was arranged), then terms would have been laid out (i.e. No poisonous weapons, or whatever), and therefore a poisoned weapon would be just as dishonorable as sneaking up and force-feeding them the poison. Otherwise, there is no such thing as dishonor.
Last edited by Cain Freemont on Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Salathe
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Post by Salathe »

There is plenty of difference, they know what you use and know it is coming. Poison deals damage, so does a sharp blade. Sneaking behind someone, surprising them and forcing it down there throats is alot different

and the only difference between fire weapons and poison weapons is one if fire and one is poison. Maybe the technicalities for this game are different since one has a skill, the other doesnt

like cain said, if you use it without the other persons knowledge its decieving and dishonorable. If your holding a poison sword and your enemy is holding a regular sword and he says he's going to chop your head off, and you jump and attack him with a poison weapon, theres nothing dishonorable with that
Last edited by Salathe on Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Galim
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Post by Galim »

LOL! No further comment .... that was just silly what you written. I am too sleepy to argue further with you about this. So I say goodbye, have to prepare my trip to austria. tz tz tz...


some peoples really surprise me every time again.
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Cain Freemont
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Post by Cain Freemont »

Galim always jumps out of arguments that start to get heated..

Don't worry, Salathykins, I've got your back. ;)

#me hides a yellow bottle behind him.

Edit: Oh my god... I just used #me for an action on the forum... I guess it just becomes instinctive, even after 5 months or more of absence.
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Salathe
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Post by Salathe »

Galim wrote:LOL! No further comment .... that was just silly what you written. I am too sleepy to argue further with you about this. So I say goodbye, have to prepare my trip to austria. tz tz tz...


some peoples really surprise me every time again.
yea i know it is silly, because i have to say it so many times and its so simple
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Aristeaus
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Post by Aristeaus »

I agree with Galim, the learning of useing poisen, or even carrying one of the weapons implies low morals. A knight would never consider going near one of these weaposn as they are ' un-honourable ' . That what you trying to say Galim?
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Talaena Landessi
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Post by Talaena Landessi »

Agreed, a poison blade is something a assassin or rogue would use as its not testing thier combat prowess or will in battle it is testing the strength of the poison and how sneaky and succesfull the attack is. Not something a knight would use, unless it was a evil knight or paladin of moshran, nargun, ronagan or the like; possible cherga. Also i wouldnt think a knight would go around talking about "Im going to take your soul" or " Your sould will be mine". Taking someones soul isnt something to talk about out loud. You get hunted when you say things like that.

But eh, just my two cents.
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Kylan Se'adorn
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Post by Kylan Se'adorn »

If your holding a poison sword and your enemy is holding a regular sword and he says he's going to chop your head off, and you jump and attack him with a poison weapon, theres nothing dishonorable with that
That all depends on how you define honour. For me it is honour to use the same weapon as my enemy, for example. Which wouldn't be true in this case.
While your enemy just can cut you, you cut *and* poison him. After the fight he would die an agonizing death.
Honour?

A knight with a poisened weapon has no honour.
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Garett Gwenour
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Post by Garett Gwenour »

Who said Salathe had honor?
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Salathe
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Post by Salathe »

well anyway, this is an IC discussion
its not testing thier combat prowess or will in battle it is testing the strength of the poison and how sneaky and succesfull the attack is
that makes sense. But one could also say the same for a really sharp blade =P.
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Misjbar
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Post by Misjbar »

Salathe wrote:The villains shouldnt declare war if they dont have power. And we sent a PM to misjbar trying to set up a time we could have an even # of member from each group meet and duke it out, but it wasnt accepted.

and with the skill cap there is no real way to powergame

and we arent master fighters, the PO of villains just dont bother to really ever train, it just seems like we're master fighters

and its been 4 or 5 months, not 1
Sorry, I was away for the record, so which PM are we talking about love? And I have HAD a talk with PO Garrett about this, in a emotional state for me, but still.

If this was already discussed over, I'm sorry, it was not my intention.

And, again for the record, I do not intend to play another bad character for life, because they, apparently, are not for the good RPers. And yes, I am talking about all the badass PGed characters, that can barely RP a normal conversation with their character, in a way true to their character.
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Misjbar
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Post by Misjbar »

Galim wrote:@Salathe

Boah! I will remember that ;).


The problem with villians is, the ones who want to play villians and say "we dont need skills, roleplay is all we need" want to playx villians who can everything. cast unholy magic to smite his foes, stomp strong warriors under their feets, and what else.

If you want to roleplay a villian without skills, than do the RIGHT roleplay for him. the sneaky one, the one out of the background. the one using lies. rumours, dark offerings and so on
Galim, I have never wanted to play the stereotypical bandit/villain you are describing here. Because then all the ones who do not have the time, have to play your stereotype, which is, in my opinion, shitty. And have you ever seen Misjbar god-RP (the smiting stuff and the likes is what I like to call god-RP), huh?!
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Falcon
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Post by Falcon »

Just a few things i've notice that really pushes my buttons on this matter.

As i Play a Villian i have noticed a few things.

1. When you Role Play yourself in the shadows SPYING on people. they automatically switch to Whispers for no reason. This has happened to me many times.

A. You can't See him, so why switch to Whispers? you move on as you would because as far as you know, he is not there!

B. I did Like how Pendar noticed Me in the shadows, i allow this because i did try to get him to notice me. BUT Bailey noticing me Completely covered in shadows is not good Role Play, as you cant see a man with a black cloak in a BLACK area...

2. As those Mobile tanks that walk around the town are usually High in what they do. It is rather Difficult for us Theives/ Assasins to do what we do, because It seems people like to bring someone they normally wouldnt along for the Ride. This is again. not cool.

3. I feel that Assasin's and Theives jobs are completely Role Played, as they do not Control + Click. Before you moan, here is why.


A. Assasins. For one, If an Assasin moves behind you, With his speed and accuracy, it is a kill shot first Hit, even though this is not a true Kill(AKA Cloud) It is imposible to dodge this attack. Even if you have maxed Agi, you have to best the Assasin in that skill to catch him, And considering most are maxed, this makes that immposible. Making Assasin's more feared.

B. Theives. All i like this one. A theif is a witty Scam Artist. He does not control + click. He outwits his opponet for the prize. I have done this to Salathe already and succeded just from Role Playing. So for those that say it can't be done. It can.

4. Weaponry and such:

A. It is my conception that Assasins move light and deadly. As such, they can out match ANY, that is A-N-Y Hero in his armor. Falcon for isntance uses Leather/chainmail with Red daggers. This shows you How much quicker he would be than a Armored truck we call Guards.

B. The weapon of an Assasin are projectiles and Daggers, i find Assasins that use otherwise rather dumb. Not you Athian, Magic is legitiamate, but as we have no magic, your exempt. They attack from shadows and are deadly accurate at what they do. In thus, If someone is Role Playing that he is in the Shadows, YOU CAN NOT SEE HIM UNLESS HE SLIPS. a Slip can be him role playing a sound, steping out of the shadows, ect.

5. Random Bits:

A. About the sound. this makes you aware there is someone, this does not mean that you can see them, it merely means you SUSPECT there can be someone there.

B. Your character can not see behind you, So if an assasin runs behind you, you..CAN..NOT...SEE..HIM!


Thank you.
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Pendar
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Post by Pendar »

It is the hardest role to play, it is so difficult because of the nature of people to notice you, wear armor, see you etc.
So far you have been a fun example a few note though just what i notice about people wishing to rp assasins in general. I know little of this was aimed at me how ever here is what i observe.
1. When you Role Play yourself in the shadows SPYING on people. they automatically switch to Whispers for no reason. This has happened to me many times.

About town I whisper what is secret and speak what is for all to hear often though if i am standing in whispered conversation and notice it has attacked attention. I will
#me whispers to X. This is a courtsey so those around or those in shadows know i am not just standing looking at my conversation partner.

I did Like how Pendar noticed Me in the shadows, i allow this because i did try to get him to notice me. BUT Bailey noticing me Completely covered in shadows is not good Role Play, as you cant see a man with a black cloak in a BLACK area...
Shadows are a hard part as thieves are prone to make them up at they go along in this instance the assumption a tavern rather possibly in day light hours has shadows is a tricky one.Also try this if you are really sneaking not useing #me if your not affecting me is not always bad rp, often one can go very unoticed a far more stealthy approach only drawing attention of #me when engaged.
2. As those Mobile tanks that walk around the town are usually High in what they do. It is rather Difficult for us Theives/ Assasins to do what we do, because It seems people like to bring someone they normally wouldnt along for the Ride. This is again. not cool.
Patience, patience many high and low characters venture out alone at times. I know i do a job may require more than one man.

Assasins. For one, If an Assasin moves behind you, With his speed and accuracy, it is a kill shot first Hit, even though this is not a true Kill(AKA Cloud) It is imposible to dodge this attack. Even if you have maxed Agi, you have to best the Assasin in that skill to catch him, And considering most are maxed, this makes that immposible. Making Assasin's more feared.
Yes we all hate people who can see out the back of there heads a few points though,
Often assasins actions make it hard on us to.
#me slips from the shadow aiming his dagger at the base of the mans neck.
"Oh golly if i dont move im "dead" or paralyzed you see with out meaning to you have left me with little choice but to dodge or take it in the shoulder,with out being hard pressed to keep breatheing"
Such of course was your intention but unless i wish to delete my character no easy choice for your victim.

A. It is my conception that Assasins move light and deadly. As such, they can out match ANY, that is A-N-Y Hero in his armor. Falcon for isntance uses Leather/chainmail with Red daggers. This shows you How much quicker he would be than a Armored truck we call Guards.
That is also the way you choose to play the role, some of the best hit-men in game use axes,staffs or bows. You want to kill my high slash and parry with daggers. Get very good or look for a chance to catch me with out armor. It is that simple at the moment, you are faster when running away for what that is worth. Hopefully time will see the combat system more balanced and throw you guys a bone :)
With bows you can kill an armored foe if your fast, or it may take 3 or 4 of you perhaps.
At core it is the hardest role in the game and the one least catered for patience and tolerance is required to play the role. Simply as your under armed and reliant on my good graces to suceded.
Something you wont always manage i fear with all players.
As i say not aimed soley at you but at many players as the trend of playing kids is replaced by mercs guild currently.
For those who didnt notice yes i play an assasin type char myself so I do sympathise just offering the other side of the coin.
Brian
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Gro'bul
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Post by Gro'bul »

Hit&run would make it fair, if double axes didn't ruin it for the I-stopped-counting-how-many-times'th time. I think I could write a college level paper on why to remove this invented weapon from game, I just need some expert opinions to back up my theories.

Also, what are shadows? Hiding behind graphics that cover your character is essentially abuse, unless the other characters are on the other side of the wall or tree where they could not see you. The shadows that will be here, will be pointing westish not north.
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Galim
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Post by Galim »

B. Theives. All i like this one. A theif is a witty Scam Artist. He does not control + click. He outwits his opponet for the prize. I have done this to Salathe already and succeded just from Role Playing. So for those that say it can't be done. It can.
sorry, but when your assassine has not the skills to kill someone in meleee fight you can't play him being able to kill others easily with just #mes. without the skills your assassine is still an assassine, but a real bad one.


Don't await peoples to let their fight experiented guys die because someone without fightskills walks behind him and writes "#me punches you to death with a dagger"
Ellaron
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Post by Ellaron »

Galim wrote:Don't await peoples to let their fight experiented guys die because someone without fightskills walks behind him and writes "#me punches you to death with a dagger"
I disagree about the assasin having to have the "game mechanic" skills to kill someone. This can be RP'ed. Even the most seasoned fighter can be taken out with a sneak attack.

I agree that "#me punches you to death with a dagger" is not enough RP and could be considered forced. But with the assasin stood right behind the "victim" a "#me goes to strike a fatal blow with his dagger" leaves it up to the "victim" if he wants to play along or not.

My character was robbed recently and it was very good RP on the thief's part. Without going into great detail the thief gave me every oportunity to prevent the robbery or catch him in the act of quietly rooting through my bag. It was done so well that I let him pick out what he wanted from the items I listed when he looked into my bag. I would like to see a bit more of this but it requires both parties to play properly.
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Post by Ziel Oden »

I like theives, most have VERY good Rp.
However, I have tried my hand on a few theives myself. Here is the most common feedback
#me sees the hand and slashes at it with his sword

Apparently, 99% of the people use OOC to their advantage to save their 1s and 0s converted into points of light on his/her screen.

There are two things i ALWAYS do:
1. Let theives have a fighting chance
2. Never EVER talk to someone comming from behind. It gets annouying when your trying to give a surprise hug and they keep turning around only becuase they can see you OOC.
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