Illarion.org

Maybe once we all understand that we can't play that game against each other. Only with each other.

/signed

You might get your feelings hurt otherwise.

i got the impression, that it might be, we got this thread, because the hurting of feelings started to become a two directional thing (in stead of the "normal" one-way affair)

Nitram wrote:Maybe once we all understand that we can't play that game against each other. Only with each other.

How could we being to achieve that? Who needs to make what? I'm beginning to be unsure myself of what needs to be done, perhaps my own thoughts are not right.

I don't know, but doesn't everyone agree that it may become monotonous or tiring to deal with the same 'baddies' day by day for months, and you never know whether it is even possible that it will end.

We can fear the bad guys and all, but can we take actions against them? Not much I think. Banning from a town is useless. Clouding them will only make your char being clouded several more times for that.

I might be getting off topic here, I don't know. I'll leave it to that.

PS. I'm not against any particular bad guy.

Edit: I have heard numerour players who are unhappy or not so glad when some baddie meets their chars or some baddie does a bad act and so on. Meanwhile, we all agree that some baddie can lead to some good rp situations and spice things up a bit. Something is a little wrong for sure, if it's something with the baddies or the goodies or both, or something from illa's technical side...I don't know. I was thinking evil chars and acts should only be played and planned by GMs. That might improve the situation true but it would also kick a few players sadly.

I have heard numerour players who are unhappy or not so glad when some baddie meets their chars or some baddie does a bad act and so on.

then why do they not post a single /signed here?

damn guys if you unhappy about things than speak up.

usually i give a f. about having people supporting me, but as i am claimed to act unfair on this and "loose player's respect" bring'em on just to make me feel like i am doing the right thing..

i'll do the quest. period.

but i would be glad to have a proof that what i do is useful for this game

abcfantasy wrote:

Nitram wrote:Maybe once we all understand that we can't play that game against each other. Only with each other.

How could we being to achieve that? Who needs to make what?

as I said before: RESPECT

respect the player behind the char
respect the char and the "work" the player put into it
respect the fact that there are ups and downs in life, so should be in illarion, you can't always win and you simply cannot always get what you want

as it was said here before (don't know, maybe Dantagon?):
why do fights always have to end up with clouding?
who not only rping and why not once in a while rping being weaker than the opponent (even if you know you are not), and yes, I know what I am talking about, I did it myself before, it works ... any hey, IT WAS FUN!

Noradur wrote:

I have heard numerour players who are unhappy or not so glad when some baddie meets their chars or some baddie does a bad act and so on.

then why do they not post a single /signed here?

damn guys if you unhappy about things than speak up.

usually i give a f. about having people supporting me, but as i am claimed to act unfair on this and "loose player's respect" bring'em on just to make me feel like i am doing the right thing..

i'll do the quest. period.

but i would be glad to have a proof that what i do is useful for this game

you want mental support? from other players?
I'd gladly offer, but I can't, cause I simply don't know what is going on

I just know that the "old temple" was alright. It was mainly good rp, and though one of my chars was/is scared as hell and suffered a lot, I still liked it.

The "new temple"?
as far I I know, consists of chars whose players DO know how to rp ... how to rp well! If they do while playing those temple chars? don't know for sure. I guess I know who is involved and I truly dislike some things going on ig, but as I said, I am not sure what you guys are arguing about now

and no, I won't comment or judge on things I don't have no information about

Noradur, if you think ... no if you are 100% sure that quest is alright and fair, go ahead. I guess you're a good quester, otherwise those guys on the board commenting your quests and rp would be lying so ... *shrugs* just go and do your "job"

Ok, i can't be bothered to read all that you've written so i'll just write a short response.

1. The temple is not a quest anymore, it stopped when the old temple area was destroyed (the stones got not removed from whatever reason that i can't be bothered to try an figure out).
2. We still have blackstones.. so what? every char in the game has them now ----> it's not just for us ----> NOT A QUEST ANYMORE
3. The new temple area was payed for!
4. I saw loads of complaining that we don't play fair and have no regard for the rules.. If I wouldn't have wanted to play fair, I could just go arround killing the whole island.. I don't know if any of you bothered to notice (from last day with the grey rose) that I've come first with my weak orc char, just to have a little fun Avalyon came only after he received two doves (pm's on the forum -IC ) that his apprentice was stuck down by the grey rose members.. and still, I came there and jsut asked who downed Seregon, but i got pissed (IC) when Adrian started cursing at Avalyon.. of course that he started killing everyone, what did you expect? You don't point a gun at your head and squese the trigger thiking that you'll be allright

Anyway, I'll be happy to answer all your questions, just ask.

Marius.

Avalyon wrote:1. The temple is not a quest anymore, it stopped when the old temple area was destroyed (the stones got not removed from whatever reason that i can't be bothered to try an figure out).
2. We still have blackstones.. so what? every char in the game has them now ----> it's not just for us ----> NOT A QUEST ANYMORE

Nitram wrote: @all: The temple gets direct support by the old teleporting black stones. As long as those stones work and give support to the temple member, support no other guild gets, the temple is a quest. With the complete removing of that stones without replacement, we can speak about taking that state away.

I think you have your answer there, Avalyon.


It still supports the temple members. And even if more than only temple members obtain such a stone now, there are still no other stones that support other guilds. Ergo,... what Nitram said.

IMHO the pushing is not only engine/feature based on this here.

Due to the fact that it was a quest guild with a lot of power and kept its power for a long long time, it got a lot of (in)fame, power and influence, which now other guild had right from the start.

Lrmy did you mention that two of your warriors killed about 7 or 8 warriors of the rose before Nalc and Tae came and helped them?

I think that shows that you're overpowered

Nope!

Avalyon did it when Adrain cursed at him.. lmao (well, 3-4 at least, i wasn't paying much attention to this lol)

About the stones, I don't know why they weren't removed in the past when i asked for this.. I said for them to be removed when the temple building was deleted, because they'll only leave room for abuse (which happened a LOT - people using them for shortcut)

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:Nope!

Avalyon did it when Adrain cursed at him.. lmao (well, 3-4 at least, i wasn't paying much attention to this lol)

So you are basically agreeing on that the temple is too overpowered when you brag around that Avalyon (who is a member of the temple, right?) can kill 7-8 warriors all himself. I mean, you literally highlight what Taeryon is saying.

On this I just wish to quote...:

Korm wrote:five plus years you are at illarion? what a pity, that you did not learn in all that time, that the optimum would be, if everybody could have fun in a game. not just a little group, that is only able to destroy things.

Noradur wrote:the problem is, you use every opportunity to have an engine fight.

Avaylon is a mage... mages can do that sort of thing, independantly of the fact that he's a temple member...

well yeah... I know.

...

...but that should be even more a reason not too use these powers everytime you have the possibility to do so.

And I'm not pointing my fingers at someone certain. I'm.. erm, more or less pointing my fingers at all of you. Good and evil chars.

LMAO your post made me laugh <3 Jen Jen

anyway, hadrian got what i wanted to say..

...but that should be even more a reason not too use these powers everytime you have the possibility to do so.

You don't follow my rp I hate doing ctrl flights (alt in my case) if not absolutely necesarely.. what sort of rp is to curse and provoke a mage and espect only good things to happen?

poor ava was forced to attack all these warriors?


...strange thing that is, the people must hate you really, i was never forced to attack someone,....

to be serious, i use my runes really rare, the most spells and rituals i do base only on roleplay and i have fun to do so,.... please why you can only have fun by use rune/engine to kill other chars?

Mh, interesting. Despite the fact that I know no one will read this unless I start with cursing words or attacking someone personally, I will nevertheless add my two cents.

I've been playing for over five years now I think (way too long ) and I noticed something many people tend to forget when argueing today:

The people playing this have changed. Yes, the Community has changed, even half of the Dev team and the GM's have. Now, I still long for the old times, despite the fact that the new times are also good and there are many new people who do good, but it's hard to accept that the old days will never return.

A rough timeline:

When I joined this game, we still had the very old client, without any name check, account system or anti-powergaming system. I created my char with a crappy name and became a master-fighter in one week.

Everyone else did too, of course. Did we do a lot of system kills? Of course we did. 10 times more often than today. How about the quests? There were some. Mostly things like the attack of the horde, or the gorgeous Darlok quests. Things have always been spoiled by misuse and stuff though, and it will always be like that.
The world we live in isn't equal, do you really think this game could ever be?

Today, we got all the slow skillgain, the new systems and stuff. It's all really fine, the game is way more complex today. The only problem for me is that it has also become very time-intensive. We have reached one thing that was long to be reached:

People are afraid to die ingame. I can't really play my character anymore, because I would get killed by some mage in two blows just every time I rp'ed the way I wanted. That's of course my problem, but leads to not playing very often anymore. I just don't want to lose 10 hours of work (what could I do instead being ingame lol) because someone used 100 hours of his time training. Heh, call me egoistic now, but I know more than 50% of the people think the same way.
Alright, I'm not writing this for my own advantage. Just to say how the game and its community has changed during the years in my eyes. I have changed too, and my lifestyle, which seems not to fit together anymore.

Like any other online-game, this game is about online time. Not about some tactic or something, it's about how long you are ig. You can practice a lot, make a lot of friends, every action is mainly ruled by one thing: time. It's like in real life.

So, guys, if you want to be as good as the temple, use more time for the game. That's it. Sounds harsh, but I can say it, because I'm one of the 'guys who would need to spend more time'.


Oh, concerning the actual topic (it changed from 'THE TEMPLE IS NO QUEST x10' to 'they are too strong') the temple is a freakin' quest. I doubt any of you could really pay for the 'old' temple as you call it, and it's not 10x10, it's more like 30x30 with all the cool furniture. Just accept that. Things are quests once a GM helps you. It's not like you started off as a normal guild, running around hours and hours collecting wood and stone to actually build that underground thing.

Oh, concerning the actual topic (it changed from 'THE TEMPLE IS NO QUEST x10' to 'they are too strong') the temple is a freakin' quest. I doubt any of you could really pay for the 'old' temple as you call it, and it's not 10x10, it's more like 30x30 with all the cool furniture. Just accept that. Things are quests once a GM helps you. It's not like you started off as a normal guild, running around hours and hours collecting wood and stone to actually build that underground thing.

The temple is NO quest, the current temple land is PAID FOR.


Also, this crap about the temple being overpowered: I have NO powergamed chars in my account since weeks now.

That leaves the only two skilled chars in the temple being Dain and Avalyon or something.


so let's add this up..

Temple of two skilled chars
Grey rose of 10 or so skilled chars?
Varshikar of.. pigs, lol
Trolls bane of an entire knightforce and guards

You know i think it's safe to say the CURRENT temple isn't as overpowered as you think.

Despite the fact that I know no one will read this ...

i did read it, and i think your line of thought about time invested may be rigt in the bull's eye. - at least triple score.

but do you see any way, to lessen the effects?

No, because time is important in every case of life, not only in this game. In every game. At school, at university, at work. It's all about how much time and effort you put into things.

Believe me, if I had a solution, I would probably be ingame right now. ^^

@Retlak: How much did you pay for it?

Just a quick note Ascius, what does the temple look like if you can remember?

I don't beleive we have any furniture.

@ascius:

The old temple building as you know it (with furniture an' shit) has been destroyed.. we now have a cave-like hiding wihtin the vulcano that consists of like 2 rooms (no furniture no nothing.. just cave walls, ruins and some randm walls)..
I won't tell you how much we payed for that, but it's a price set by the builder

oh, and a depot that for some reson has dissapeared lol

When I started writing I saw Ava's post which explains what I remembered. I guess the new rooms were just calculated by the building rules, which is fine.

And I guess the depots were somehow reformed again... I lost the overview. ^^

hehe no problem dewd, don't refrain from asking that's what this post is for ^^

Okay, wait wait wait.

The Temple when I used to run it. Quest fine. We got a big ass Temple, some pushed questcharacters and blackstones to help us out.

The Temple now...a little room that was paid for legitimately, only player characters in it, and some blackstones.

The way I see it, its already far attached from the original quest, but get rid of the blackstones just to eliminate any possible nuance of an advantage. Really, they're not worth the hassle they seem to be causing. But of course, Ephraim's equivalent items should also be removed.

Otherwise the Temple is no more a quest that any other guild or town. GM intervention to perma kill player characters is just irresponsible and unfair.

Noradur wrote:

I have heard numerour players who are unhappy or not so glad when some baddie meets their chars or some baddie does a bad act and so on.

then why do they not post a single /signed here?

damn guys if you unhappy about things than speak up.

usually i give a f. about having people supporting me, but as i am claimed to act unfair on this and "loose player's respect" bring'em on just to make me feel like i am doing the right thing..

i'll do the quest. period.

but i would be glad to have a proof that what i do is useful for this game

Ok... here's my opinion:

I don't care about all the OOC sh** here and I agree with the thougt that everybody should be able to play the kind of char he wants to do. But I talk about ROLEPLAY here...

Anyways beside that... If you decide to play a bad char your have to know for yourself that baddies are not that loved by society. It's the principle of action and reaction.
I mean, you aren't expecting your "victims" to hold still without reacting, without defending themself and finally try to "solve" the problem, are you, guys?

So if there are groups in a society which act bad and haze people, it's just normal that these people unite at a certain point to strike back.

So a quest to TRY to get rid of that groups IG is just a logical consequence to me.

All the other points mentioned here belong to the problems with the communnity we all have to deal with.

So...

/signed that far.

Using GM help to eliminate a certain group/player/number of players is an unfair advantage. A massively fucking huge advantage over free land, some quest chars and blackstones.

And the current group doesnt even have free land, quest characters and its soon not to have blackstones too.

So a quest to TRY to get rid of that groups IG is just a logical consequence to me.

regard that nalzaxx in the first place..

and then ask yourself: if they act

irresponsible and unfair

what do you think my consequence will be?

@ascius: http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 352#476352

i dont wand go more off topic here ^,^

A consequence of what? 'Good' characters who try their very best to 'spoil' the fun of 'Bad' characters never have some pissed off GM come along and perma kill a load of them.

And I think we all know they are not acting irresponsibly and unfairly. Its obvious you have a personal dislike for the players of the Temple.

No i am afraid i must take that illusion from you. Even though marius can be an annoying twat ( ) sometimes, i have not a single issue with him in person. Same with Matt, who teaches me british cusswords. We have our fights about ig things, but thats strictly business. The thing with lrmy just started with this thread, and i admit it drove me mad.

So you are mistaking.

I have a bigmouth, a rude behaviour and an aggressive tone when it comes to these things, and i blast every word straight from my mind into my posts, without thinking twice. ( my excuses to my fellow staff members that i be such a shady example-but this is unofficial.)
But what i am not is a b*tch ass. I dont use my powers against something simply because myself dislikes it. I do, and i've been honest to you from post #1 in this thread. But the thread also showed, i am not the only one. Which makes all my following actions reasonable..

But what really bothers me right now, is the fact that i haven't even *made the slightest action ig yet, and i get a fucked up comment like yours you*$%&/$

*takes deep breath*

i am gonna have a smoke know and imagine evil faces in my achtray.