Villains IG

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:14 pm

I know what I mean, my "bad guy" got mistook for a mass murderer the very first time in-game because of those features (I admit, maybe he also cared too much for his dagger, but what's wrong cleaning it in public ).

Perhaps it was wrong doing that in puplic while whole town were running around and searching a massmurderer who said he will come to town this night

. We were all looking for suspicious guys. and than you was sitting in black cloak at the well and cleaned your dagger with a happy smile on your face. of course a alarmbell rings than by us

Meniellant · Post by **Meniellant** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:13 pm

Yeah sure, I actualy did enjoy being snatched and accused for murder... gives my character some nice reasons to plan something mean on the people involved

It was... well he was just the wrong person dressed in the wrong manner doing the wrong things at the wrong place at the wrong time while the wrong people were seeing it. I don't complain about it and I am sure he has learned his lesson about how to behave in Trollsbane already

Devrah Liioness · Post by **Devrah Liioness** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:50 pm

You know, I seem to recall, when I was first joining Illa, that Konstantin K was being banned again.. for PG'ing.. with the skillcap in place. So don't even try to tell me there is no way around it. Either there is (And I have been told that he posted how to do it on the forums awhile ago, so now I know how everyone else knows how), or else he wasn't really PGing and was banned for no reason. At least, that is the way I see it. It has to be one of the two.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:01 pm

He wasn't banned for powergaming, this has been stated several times by several poeple.

Devrah Liioness · Post by **Devrah Liioness** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:02 pm

I read the thread, he was banned for being pissed about having his skills cut because of powergaming. Doesn't matter if tht was why or why not he was banned, no one contests that he was accused of powergaming. Which is my point.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:08 pm

K could find a loop hole in any system dear

The old one was easier, but if any one could find a way in the new one it would be K.

John Irenicus · Post by **John Irenicus** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:11 pm

Yeah, but actualy the things you get as a new "I want to become a fighter" ARE a black cloak and black trousers. If you roleplay that out properly, maybe add a small dagger in your belt for self protection purposes, plus friendly and polite speech then everyone will be suspicious at you right away. Pretty much pushes every new player into the villain role slightly already.

I only tried to give examples for unintelligent villians, though my possibilities to explain are a bit constricted in english.
Of course, you are right. No good guard would just oversee a person running around with a weapon and bad manners. To have a black coat from the beginning may be something to be changed, since it is nice to play our what your character really wears, this may cause problems.

You know, I seem to recall, when I was first joining Illa, that Konstantin K was being banned again.. for PG'ing.. with the skillcap in place. So don't even try to tell me there is no way around it.

There are always ways to powergame, it is impossible to stop that with any technical improvements.
Many don't seem to understand what "powergaming" really means. It is not directly powergaming if you trick the games system. Powergaming would be to train 3 hours without any pause, in a game with a skillcap AND in a game without a skillcap, too. It is simply impossible to do that (if we mind the illa time which is x3 afaik) it would be 9 hours of training ==> impossible.
The skillcap in Illarion can not be seen as a blocker for powergaming, but only as a helpful tool for the players to actually realize what their chars are able to take and what not.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:18 pm

i dunno about that john, combat training takes about 10 minutes to hti the cap, usually less

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:21 pm

Actually right or wrong K had his skills far higher than any one else at the time.
When the new server was launched the monsters were far slower and the skill cap was not in place. He used the super slow trolls to get his skills far above any one else on the game.
The skills were docked he was then in turn banned for his reaction to that.
Agree or disagree the exploit he used is now closed by the fact our monsters now walk at a "normal" speed.

The only way to "PG" ~i nearly puke everytime i use this word~ now is to train logg of wait some 2-4 hours or more logg back on train logg off.
This is far preferable to the old method were by one could train for 4 hours with out a pause. At least this way it will take people X weeks to master a skill. Hopefully encourage them to rp instead.
Power gameing is an abused term at the moment as provideing some one has not exploited a bug or glitch, they have gained skills as fast as the client allows.
They have there by played the game by the rules I dont know we can penalise them for that.
Unless some questionable behaviour can actually be pointed out, I know this system there are very few exploits and those that do exist are tiny.

Brian

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:23 pm

now is to train logg of wait some 2-4 hours or more logg back on train logg off.

Good luck, won't work. You regain your full learnpoints not after 2-4 hours. more after 6 and more.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:26 pm

Might be dependant on intellegence, but indeed Galims expierence shows how hard it is to actually "exploit" the system

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:29 pm

powergaming means more to do skillraising which doesn't fit to the characters role or which works just of missusing of gamedisadvantages. like let others shoot arrows or magic at you to raise magic defense or dodge. or being a warrior with high tailor skills, or a warrior who is a very good herbalist. and so on.

or even a knight who trains his poison skill

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:31 pm

a knight can learn all and any combat skills he wants ;D

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:32 pm

Is Salathe now in first row a knight or a Smith? If he is a smith, no he can't. if he is a knight, your smithingskills are too high for being a knight.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:35 pm

He is Multiclass erm Knight, Smith! Go Ad&d, perhaps add poisener for luck?

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:37 pm

Salathe had RP reasons for his smithing skills, all he needed to make was a halberd which recently popped up in his smithing list. But i do think his skills are a tad too high, i dont try to raise my smithing skill at all anymore, i smith occasionally though

and i can think of a dozen smith/fighters we've had in the past =P

John Irenicus · Post by **John Irenicus** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:57 pm

a knight can learn all and any combat skills he wants ;D

I can not imagine a knight working with poisen. It is a question of honor.
Not everything fits to every role, like a druid who has mastered his skill with a double axe, a paladin using the full stock of runes, even the ones which are known "evil", or a barbarian being a master in tailoring.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:16 pm

Devrah Liioness wrote:I read the thread, he was banned for being pissed about having his skills cut because of powergaming. Doesn't matter if tht was why or why not he was banned, no one contests that he was accused of powergaming. Which is my point.

Training with lack of roleplay and use of OOC is also considered powergaming. And he wasn't banned for being "pissed" about it. He was banned because we couldn't take another day of constant PM's, OOC ingame, and IRC visits where he ran around cussing us out and making homophobic comments, meanwhile confessing to some other rule breaks for the sake of.. I can't figure it out myself.

Even then we gave him the option of behaving to end his ban. No one else has been given as many options.

I wouldn't have commented on this at all, but I've been given way too much crap from him and a couple other players over this. I've explained to him how I'm not the one deserving of all the ire, personally. I don't want to have to explain it to anyone else.

Sylathen · Post by **Sylathen** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:24 pm

Galim wrote: or a warrior who is a very good herbalist. and so on.

~*cough*~
Well considering that Sylathen is a Paladin, he has to learn these things. If you read about Paladins, they fight the holywars with swords, minor healing spells, holy spells, and defensive spells. Thus Sylathen will have magic/fighter skills, that is totaly within Role Play..Just a side note.

~*Noko*~

Markous · Post by **Markous** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:29 pm

Sylathen wrote:[...] will have magic/fighter skills, that is totaly within Role Play.

Agreed.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:29 pm

poison as in poison weapons. Poison weapons are just another special elemental weapon, poisoning someone as in sneaking behind them and forcing a poison potion down their throats is another thing. But using poison weapons, fire weapons, and any other elemental weapons we get in the future is fine for knights.

and on the my smithing skills are too high for being a knight. I've seen dozens and dozens of druids/mages that have had maxed out tailoring or leather working (before wipe)

and galim, if i remember correctly you were good with magic and smithing and fighting. I remeber you casting and smithing to make fireswords with actual magic and then fighitng with them. And not just healing spells for your priest, but lightning bolts and flames

Devrah Liioness · Post by **Devrah Liioness** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:11 pm

my issue is not with 'powergaming', alright? I play other games where it is allowed and I don't care. the issue that I have is that people pretend that PG'ing doesn't exist in Illarion, when it does, and certain players are allows to get away wit it. As long as they don't make a big deal and boast about doing it, everyone kind of looks the other way and I am sick of it. 'Fess up, seriously. On MSN everyone admits to being PG'd or knowing people that are PG'd but on the forums everyone suddenly is an angel.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:00 am

Again Devrah, you cannot powergame, you cannot be powergamed. The Skill cap is implemented and there is no way around it. You confuse being trained and powergaming.
Powergaming definition has never been finely defined, this is largely because none of the GMs would agree on it. I think it should finally be stated what it is as most people agree on it, and no one will disagree on this.
Powergaming is training Out Of Character. This would mean, training to get dodge by fighting flies with no armour, much less your not fighting, you just let them bite your character to get the skill of dodge. This is powergaming. To train with no common sense involved, like letting monsters hit you endlessly just to raise a parry level. This is powergaming.
Training your character, fighting to get him strong, blacksmithing to get him good, daily, is not powergaming. This is getting your character skilled.

Turonga Mudwater · Post by **Turonga Mudwater** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:20 am

But you can powergame. If you ask me alot of that player training is powergaming. I admit I've taken part in it, but very rarley. Some of this "Hit me with this rusty dagger, it hurts less" or "this axe is so strong! I can kill people with it alot faster than that other axe, let me hit you with it."

That is out of character training, letting somone hit you with an axe to test it, or fighting with some of the strongest weapons in game? I can understand using sticks and such as training weapons (or using crappy old swords and role-playing they are sticks due to the fact that no stick exists that adds to Slashing Weapons) If a character truley wanted to test an axe they would go kill an ogre, to see how much force it would take to kill it not "I can kill an ogre in 3 hits with this" because every battle would truley be different, one battle you kill an ogre with 1 hit, the next it takes you 10.

I had more to say but I can't remeber what I was going to say so I'll just leave it at that.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:30 am

and galim, if i remember correctly you were good with magic and smithing and fighting. I remeber you casting and smithing to make fireswords with actual magic and then fighitng with them. And not just healing spells for your priest, but lightning bolts and flames

Was Galim a knight? No. I spoke of knights, the role of a knight doesn't fit to a craftmen role too. Galim was a dwarf, and a priest. To become a novice i needed a mastered craftmenskill and the ability to cast healing spells. without that Rugosch wouldn't have took Galim as a novice.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:44 am

Im a priest of Bragon, I need smithing and fighting and fire magic, ta.

* wanders of with a happy smile *

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:55 am

Galim wrote: Was Galim a knight? No. I spoke of knights, the role of a knight doesn't fit to a craftmen role too. Galim was a dwarf, and a priest. To become a novice i needed a mastered craftmenskill and the ability to cast healing spells. without that Rugosch wouldn't have took Galim as a novice.

Salathe wants to gather a group of fearless knights around himself then, and the only people he accepts as pages are those able to smith their own swords and armor, being able to enchant it themselves and also able to heal their lord Salathe with healing spells if necesarry, plus knowing how to poison their weapons to fight more efficiently.

Don't put Sal down because of that, he got high standarts and a delicate taste picking his allies, that's all.

--EDIT towards the comment below: Exactly Galim, your senses spotted the sign (

) at the end of my post immidiately

--

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:59 am

Was that sarcasm? I think my sarcasm alarm bell just ringed

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:14 am

Though... basically Rugosh set aims on what Galim had to know to be a "dwarven priest". So you two made up a RP explenation about why Galim learned, knew and then could do all those things.

Salathe and other people might've been involved in different roleplay that explains why he's the smith-fighter-poison ninja lizard mix he is now, you don't know about or simply don't agree with. It's all a matter of understanding the other players roleplay or view about roleplay in my eyes.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:27 am

Well, it was more like that. Galim started as a smith. and nothing else. after some time, one or two years, a priest was needed in silverbrand. and galim was in a state of rp which made him fititng to that role. i already got magic by accident through the library. because that days you just had to read the wrong book and you got runes and magic.

i never used magic before. i was a smith, and a grandmaster too.so the roleplay with galim came to a point where was less new. So he started to become a priest. And the next year i roleplayed than. He was no fighter to that time too. Than he met Alora. And the two got bethroten. And through her and the time together with her he started to become a bit a fighter too. Which dwarf wouldn't like it to train with his beautiful woman and see her sweating and using axes

.

It were changes that happened over the time. over three years.