The New Fighting system

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:24 pm

Kl'urk wrote:Really, it is not fun if you have with a (...) char no chances...

This is an important statement. I ruled out the whole powergaming stuff, it's the same old story and has not much to do with the fighting system itself.

What I critize is the rate of hits: Weak chars and weak monsters seem to hit once in a year, I assume there is a 1-5% wildcard for this. Also, superior opponents tend to slay inferior victims with very few hits, up to one-hit-kills. These are some of the properties of the old old fighting system: Anyone remembers the one-hit-person-with-warhammer-is-dead demons and the two-shield-halfling-battlemages?

Another thing that troubled me in the past was the extreme impact of quality; don't know if this was changed in the past months.

The good thing about the new fighting system is that it is based on scripts; it can be changed in a minute without any server downtime. Also, it was designed to be tweakable quite easily, thus, our developers are able to change the system and bring it to a close to perfect state.

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:26 pm

Kl'urk wrote:its a plus for every powergamed char.

As is every skill.

Martin

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:32 pm

I agree that the system is meant to be good for powergamers now. With so many skills and the need to be good at all of them, only a powergamer can hope to be good. You guys should work on that.

Thariel Feuersturm · Post by **Thariel Feuersturm** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:45 pm

OMG. It isnt Powergaming when a Fighter, who only learns to fight, is better than others. He dont learns to taylor or to smith or something else. Well, if someone has found out, how to upskill dogde, than gratulations to you

. Imho it isnt powergaming, if a warrior trains all his skills.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:45 pm

Do me one favor: Do not stress this powergaming issue to much. "Powergaming" in terms of Illarion is a series of action, not covered by RP-reasons just to lvl up. Illarion is still a game and one of the key features of it is that you can become better by doing things. A fighter who fights against monsters will become better and better. I assume the dodge glitch was fixed with the new fighting system, so no more lurking in the swamps...

Anyway, the way how one gets skills is (almost) independent from the fighting system. Maybe start a new topic to discuss about this topic?

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:44 pm

Whats all this about knowing how to train dodge? Retlak has 114 dodge (old client) and to get it up in the first place was just luck, now that he dodges like a mad fish it just raises itsself. And hehe..Arameh hit me once in two fights.. i will repeat this over and over..

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:47 pm

I think it was 3 fights, before i could pwn Retlak, i was like wtf.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:57 am

Tactics uses intellegence?

Here comes the main problem with static attributes. ALL of them are needed for fighting now...and no-one planned this when they were creating their character.

Agility - Or he'll be too slow to fight
Const - Or he;ll be too weak
Intel - For tactics
Essence - Or magic will eradicate him
Dex - Or else he'll miss
Strenght - Or he'll be a weakling
Perception - Or he'll never hit well
Willpower - Or his skills will be slow

-
So, how would you design a fighter now? SInce they need everything?

Thats why I suggested variable attributes, so different fighting styles could be designed... right now few fighters have any intel...and only new fighters will have...

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:01 am

someone who's average would be fine, but you can lower some that are less important, like how often you hit doesnt matter if you have a high strength, for instance

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:01 am

Yeah fighting needs too many attributes...maybe we could remove per or something. Well Retlak just dueled me, i was using a shield and a bastard sword, he was using his uber staff of pure pwnage. He beated me before i hit him. A shield! He was always hitting me! Does agility helps to aiming or what? I never hit anything, that sucks. I was wearing everything from excellent to good quality, nothing less. I guess he used some crappy armor, somethbing nbot right, i always miss he always hit.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:02 am

my thief would probably bne a good fighter (except against mages, his essence is low, and his willpower isnt great either), i need to get him trained, right now he only has ddar4k blue puncture, dark blue parry, and light blue slashing. Of cours,e I steal more than fight with him, so it makes sense...

R. Dwyer · Post by **R. Dwyer** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:02 am

Tactics uses intellegence?
---

You are speculating.

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:36 am

did you make an account just to post that?

well anyway I jus dueled a few times. Beat Mdrusio in 5 sec(w. hammer),some female human I am forgetting the name of(in two min, w. maces), retlak used a *uberstaff* as arameh says and he wone in like 5 then he got a morning star out and it broke but after like 2 min(i use a hammer on him), and Arameh beat me in like 10 sec with staff to staff. Unless any of them got a crit I could pwn them befor...he he. but now it's diffrent and I think we should just all play it out and in about a year we'll all hav eit figured out and look back and say "We were idiots".

And i could swear powergaming was eliminated...you can't gain skill more then 5 times a day and thats if your up the intire day at your comp. And still that would take for ever to make a good fighter and by good I mean be able to kill 5 mummies at once...

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:40 am

Well, strangely Arameh never gets his skill cap, i gfot to mummys for 30 minutes, one hour in crypt, dueled like 4 times, and i didnt get my cap...

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:42 am

that's alot of time training... I spend like 10 minutes at most training.

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:43 am

I never cap either...maybe this has to do with the fighting system?.. and are mummies stronger or the same with their skill build and tactics accually in play?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:44 am

I never got cap since new fighting system, maybe my skill dosent go up?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:50 am

I cap pretty easily, weird.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:37 am

I aswell

Markous · Post by **Markous** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:38 am

Hadrian_Abela wrote:Here comes the main problem with static attributes. ALL of them are needed for fighting now...and no-one planned this when they were creating their character.

I don't see, what's so negative here?

It prevents people who make str,dex,agil,const 19 chars just to pwn everybody.

When you created your char, it was crystal clear, that one day, every attribute is needed for something.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:41 am

Its negative, since warriors needs 6 attributes, so that will make them like 12 eahc, while mages needs 2, so they can be 18 each, maybe thats why i get killed in ONE spell.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:46 am

Mages need more than warriors. A mage can't walk around with no agility, no strength or no consti. and they have 3 mageattributes. so just one less than warriors have, but also need points for the other attributes

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:49 am

sure but arameh has a valid point. a warrior must spread out his character's skills very thin with those SIX seperate attributes. Whereas a mage can max out the required THREE attributes to be a powerful mage and then use the numerous left over points where they want to use it.
Let us be honest, how many 'pure' mages (those without fighting skills) have less then 16 essence/intell/willpower.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:52 am

well, they need TWO attributes, not THREE

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:57 am

Arameh, they need three.

How many of the warriors have strength and consti under 16? and even dexterity and perveption?

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:02 am

Arameh_ wrote:well, they need TWO attributes, not THREE

Dont be stupid, willpower, essence, intelligence. And technically, a warrior doesnt need essence to be a good warrior, just to fight mages. And even without any essence, a good warrior could probably beat a good mage with the right eqquipment, even with low essence (you can get magic resitance even with low essence, it just takes longer and caps quicker, i think)

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:02 am

It needs injtelligence and willpower, essence has no use in magic unless fighting others

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:03 am

Arameh_ wrote:It needs injtelligence and willpower, essence has no use in magic unless fighting others

Even if that were true, than we could say warriors dont need agility for dodging weapons, unless they plan to fight other warriors

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:07 am

Ahem, magicians dosent fight between themselves, as far as i know. And even so, they dont need essence more than warriors, who also needs it since the magic resistance skill is uber impossible to gain, warriors NEEDS strenght, constitution, agility, dexterity, perception and intelligence, NEED. and they preferably should get essence. While mages NEED intelligence and wilpower, and preferably should get strenght and essence, see the point? And even with that, they pwn warriors like i pwn flies.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:09 am

Gort Greegog wrote:Beat Mdrusio in 5 sec(w. hammer),

Just for the statistics: 3, 4 critical hits against weakest leather armor, chain greaves and storm helmet (all of that at the most mediocre quality); I used Elfen Mage Staff and am an hardly average fighter.

some female human I am forgetting the name of(in two min, w. maces)

It was Siltaris.

The system seems to be really complex... I hope you don't need to be good in every existing fighting skill and to change armor and weapon every time:

Midrusio looks at Crunk's armor and weapon.
Crunk wears armor X and weapon Y.
Midrusio changes his equipment to armor Z and weapon W.
Crunk also changes his equip to armor A and weapon B.
And so on

So there is indeed the mentioned point with the theoretical needing of all attributes for a good fighter (haha, then I will train and will pwn you all in some weeks

). Tactics is a strange skill, too...

And: Movement in fights is far to lame. It also seems to be laggy here when I fight!