Training dummys/ targets

Raffa Redwillow · Post by **Raffa Redwillow** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:25 am

I propse a staionary Training dummy (to train fighting skill) be somewhere because that would have been how they trained back then rather than fighting others. you could become exahusted easily a precation to powergamers. There were dummys made of wood that fit on to a stationary poll so they could break. Im not sure if this is possible though.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:10 am

fighting skill is supposed to be just that, skill, not how hard you hit. How much can you learn from hitting a dummy?

Kincent Nolatri · Post by **Kincent Nolatri** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:16 am

I've been think of the same thing for some time, but my idea was a bit different, by in japan, the had stricking post wich where small poles of wood plant in the ground. Samurai's use them to pratice there.Anyways the only way this would work illa(to so pg abuse i mean) would to have'd to be a master carapenter, and it would have to cost a LOT of money and break easyly

Kincent Nolatri · Post by **Kincent Nolatri** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:18 am

Gro'bul wrote:fighting skill is supposed to be just that, skill, not how hard you hit. How much can you learn from hitting a dummy?

Ok I'll use skateboarding for this one.
Yes skateboard skill is earn for skate, but also if you watch a lot of video, and goes to trick tips sites. It can help your skills out to if you know what I mean. Trust me I know

Klath · Post by **Klath** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:02 am

A good idea, but it has a fault. Your attributes determine how hard, fast, and accurate your attacks are. Your fighting skills must come from experience, from a living thing attacking you. The tricks and tips are learned with thought and time, not experience.

Kincent Nolatri · Post by **Kincent Nolatri** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:13 am

Yes another good point Klath, this idea has good points and bad ponits. only question is which one out weighs the other?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 5:21 am

Accually, if you just give the posts a certain amount of parry, then you hurt it till it breaks, and if your strong enough you'll just break it in one hit. Or if you reach a certain level of experience you can't gain anymore.

Klath · Post by **Klath** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:47 am

A good point as well. Although, you can't gain parry from a non moving target, it would help because of the major jumping gap you have to make from fighting skeletons, to ogres, to demons.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 7:05 am

Yes but if you can kill a zombie before you die, you'll gain legitimate parry experience. Kincent, that is indirectly teaching you something through observation, if you watched a master hit the pole you would learn something too, just it would not increase your skill in the game. If you don't know how to do something right you can't practice it.

Caranthir the great · Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:40 am

IMO, we don't need any dummy to make skillgaining in fighting any less complicated or easier. Bad idea.

Fedaykin · Post by **Fedaykin** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 12:13 pm

Aren't the mummies fighting dummies?
Sometimes i think they where used so.

Belegi · Post by **Belegi** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:46 pm

Belegi´s player sighs

I hope the day will come when all fighting skills will be gone...

What would you do with such dummies? You would CRTL-Click them, sit in front of your screen, drink some coffee, sometimes you would type "#me hits the dummy" because you roleplay the situation and don´t want to be called powergamer... After some minutes (or hours?) you would have a look on your skills and maybe even use a screenshot to determine your change in the redness of your fighting skills and then?

What was the benefit for you or the game? This is a roleplaying game, sure, if you are a fighter you want to train your skills in your role, but is there actually a need for you to do this like this? Duelling for training purpose is the most annoying thing to me that occurs in this game, have ever noticed that you actually hurt your training partner?! Training IC could be done be "#me"´s, not by senseless fighting that draws the attention of righteous people on you who want to help.

If you seek adventures, head for the demon cave and give the red one a beating, besides, slaughtering mummies all day long won´t increase your skills above a certain point (maybe I shouldn´s say this...).

Raffa Redwillow · Post by **Raffa Redwillow** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 3:44 am

Yes that is the reason I proposed this Belegi. I am sick of seeing people training and actually hurtting each other, I see no good Role play in that. You could train fists, but fighting a demon with fists would be nearly impossible. People never stop training like that and it annoyes the hell out of me.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:06 am

getting hit with armor hurts, but doesn't do any purmanate damage if you aren't hit that hard, like punching.....

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:11 am

YeaH i think the difficulty Of zombies needs to be improved, I can easily earn 3 ingots worth of spoils and 250 thread with out fighting a single zombie, because people kill them and take nothing they pretty much are training dummys. I really shouldnt complain though I make alot of money and help my RP a little bit.

Halflings don't easily throw away things which usefulness can still be discovered some day

ive probably got 250 pen books and loads of rusty daggers and swords , A big part of that is because Items on the ground lag it up and I hate lag.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:01 pm

Belegi and Pronon are right. we don't need such "dummies" because the pger would usethem for their own pging. and yes, too many peoples are slaughtering mummies and let the stuff lay and rot on the ground. that isn't really good rp.

@pronon

psssst, don't destroy one of my income possibilitys

. and,perhaps ya want to give me ya rusty daggers and swords? *g*

Klath · Post by **Klath** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 7:01 am

Well, I wouldn't go as far as taking the fighting skills out, though it may sound nice...however, anybody that wanted to roleplay as a swordsman can always say "I'm a master swordsman," though they can't back it up well.

But I think these days, too many people are concerned about becoming a demon killer and showing off their skills in shades of red, rather than roleplaying. I think if you want to roleplay a good fighter, you should train a little bit to where you can kill skeletons within time, and keep it at that. Not everybody has to kill demons/nether-creatures/some monster that would normally prove too difficult for one person to take on.

Therefore, I propose increasing the difficulty of monsters such as demons, rotworms, beholders, giant spiders, etc.; too often, I see only one person killing these things, even newbies, without a scratch. Think about it...these are beasts that come from nightmares, they should be hunted or destroyed by groups of people, who are mortals mind you, and have their logical limits.

Seriously; would anybody think it's great roleplay to say "Well, I think I'll go kill some [insert powerful monster here], because I'm bored/need training/money." There should be a roleplaying reason as to why you want to kill something supernatural, that doesn't make it sound like you're just hunting wild boar.

Although, there seems to be a slight problem with combat skill gaining; once you're able to kill skeletons easily, you'll find it difficult to get better unless you play with the demons a bit, who would prove too hard. So, perhaps, the demons and other oddities of creatures can be only used in roleplaying events or quests, and be replaced with a more "down to earth," realistic monster such as a boar, or a carnivorous bird, or something along those lines. Anything to make a hunter look more like a realistic hunter, killing a hostile beast for sport, trying to get meat or some valuable skin; not attacking fiery creatures on your own without the slightest clue of RP value.

And that, is my bag of coins ladies and gentlemen.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 10:25 am

With the upcoming new fighting system this will surely be taken care of.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:08 am

Belegi wrote:Belegi´s player sighs

I hope the day will come when all fighting skills will be gone...

Why, then, play an RP game other than a chat program? Try Furcadia sometime, no combat there. I tried it, tried hard not to puke.

Actual combat is supposed to bring some realism/excitement into the game.

Of course, this is just my opinion, but then I don't play Furcadia because it's just.. horrible that way.

Try FFRP some time (Free Form Role Playing). It's usually horrible. "I hit you!" "No you didn't, I have boots of flying and fly over your head..."

There seems to be two camps in Illarion right now:

1. Role play everything. Don't do any actions, just talk. Dont' combat, don't farm, don't mine, it's too hot to mine, too thirsty to mine. Just talk.

2. Bah, give me a game where I can actually do something! Talking is fine for a while, but I need to DO something! Anything! This lack of activity is driving me crazy!

For the first camp, may I suggest Furcadia?
For the second camp, may I suggest Tibia?

Now that we see the horriblness of the extrems, how about finding something in the middle everyone can live with?

A good judge knows he's made the right decision when neither side is totally happy.[/list]

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:44 am

So just put in fighting dummies that you can't get any experience out of?

Klath · Post by **Klath** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:18 pm

I agree with Gro'bul on this one. Implement the training dummies, but it's nothing to get experience out of; just something to do when you're bored, if you roleplay everything.

Berengar · Post by **Berengar** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:09 pm

? Duelling for training purpose is the most annoying thing to me that occurs in this game, have ever noticed that you actually hurt your training partner?!

Well in my opinion training with other players isnt that bad, for example if you happen to meet a quite experienced fighter who teaches you some tricks or whatever. The fact that you have to hurt your sparring parnter is because you have to get hurt to get better in parrying...
in my view thats weird, but you can t change it because it would make pg easier, so people have to continue hurting their friends when they are "training"

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 10:06 am

A few explanations:

Duel= a fight between two parties that has been provoked by e.g. insulting someones honor, the target is to revenge by humiliating the offender.

Training= a fight between teacher and student, friends, or other associates with the intention of learning. Target is not to hurt the partner, although this often happens just because of the nature of fighting.

So, friends, or even strangers walking along proposing duels to everyone just for the sake of fun or training is rubbish. If you want to train, train with someone who it makes sense with. If you want to fight for fun, fight monsters or people who it makes sense with. Duel if provoked.
This is not Yu-Gi-Oh, people.

Rexxareon · Post by **Rexxareon** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:37 pm

Right spoken Adano!

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 10:16 pm

Yes but in yu-gi-oh they dual for prizes and honor and stuff, I don't see the problem with this. And no, I don't play it, its the only thing on unless you watch oprah or dr.phil at 3:00 in the afternoon.

Jori · Post by **Jori** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:18 pm

This should just be something for newbies. When I first started I could barely
kill a fly. The newbies should train at a dummy until they can kill flies. When they can kill flies decently then the dummy shouldnt work for them anymore.

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:18 am

Or we could drop this whole thing. Too much effort for so little gain.