Lyrenzia Foundation: Judicial trial / Gerichtsverfahren #29

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:04 am

I never threatened the damned hobbits! Elaralith had as much right to cast on me as I have to tie her up and throw her in the river right now!

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:07 am

paul laffing wrote:Here is how it happened, as I saw it.

I was going to the demon cave with Xanthe Talon when I saw two hobbits casting flames on the castle. I warned them that that was private property, and they might not want to be caught on it. They cast on me, so I warned them to "leave or die". They continued casting on me until I was dead. Then, they fled to town, where I followed them to confront them and straighten this out. I met them halfway to town, with Elaralith and Gannon. The hobbits starting to run, so I told them "Stop now and no one will get hurt". Elaralith started casting on me, and the hobbits did the same.

Apparently, the majority of the jury considers "leave or die" and "Stop now and no one will get hurt" and then advancing towards the halfilngs, enough of a threat.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:15 am

I only said go now or die when they were attacking me, and Elaralith and Arudhul were not there. I did not threaten the hobbits in their presence, as they made you falsely believe. And stop now and no one will get hurt was not a threat. In fact, it was for my own safety, because I did not want to get hurt, and tried to keep everyone calm, which they were, until Elaralith cast on me, provoking the hobbits to cast on me.

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:42 am

"Go now or die" is a threat Paul.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:08 am

Him casting offensive spells on me is more than a threat, I suppose!

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:38 am

Do you think maybe that the sequence of events, and the evidence for the occurence of each, is relevant? Besides, whether or not you were attacked by the halflings before is not within the scope of Elaralith at the time she paralyzed you.

Once again, the side notes from the court said:

The court finds that in the situation that Paul Laffing threatened the two halflings without reason apparent to bystanders, an intervention through a paralyisis spell was justifiable.
It might have been possible to counter justify Paul Laffing's threats for being first attacked by the two halflings in question. However, there was not sufficient evidence that this in fact occured anyways.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:44 am

paul laffing wrote:I never threatened the damned hobbits! Elaralith had as much right to cast on me as I have to tie her up and throw her in the river right now!

You never threatened the "damned hobbits"?
First of all even you in your first testimony said that you told the halflings "Go now or die" or "Stop and noone will get hurt". Are you lying now? Secondly, I hardly think hobbits are "damned" as I am sure most of the hobbits race thinks.

And why would you want to tie me up and throw me in the river right now? More importantly what right have you to do so? Now you threaten me. Maybe you need a Lyrenzia trial of your own to convict you Paul.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:04 am

Elaralith wrote: And why would you want to tie me up and throw me in the river right now? More importantly what right have you to do so? Now you threaten me. Maybe you need a Lyrenzia trial of your own to convict you Paul.

Learn how to read and read the damned post, or shut up with your stupid comments that are not relevant and make no sense.

No, I never threatened them. Go now or die was in self defense. Yet, Elaralith, you threatened me with the same "go now or die", just different wording. I think I have the right to kill you now. And believe me, watch your back, because justice will be had.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:24 am

Just remember one thing. The court was fully aware that you did not say "go now or die" in the presence of Elaralith. Whether or not that is considered a threat and your confrontation with those halflings at the castle, were both insignificant to the arrival of the verdict.

The key was, and always has been, that your "stop now and no one will get hurt" and advancing towards the halflings, were both considered by the majority of the jury, to be justifiable reasons for a bystander to paralyze you from the belief that you were about to harm the halflings with no justifiable cause in the eyes of the bystander.

This is a matter of differing principles, not "reading wrong information".
Debate or advertise your opinion of the principle if you want, but keep in mind that the difference of opinion in people's principles is one of the very reasons why there is something called a jury.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:04 pm

So Dyluck, what you are saying is that if I get a few friends with me, both mages, and tell them to say that you Dyluck, had threatened us, and then we cast on you, but i only cast paralisis, I wouldnt be guility? And then if you came back, I could kill you again because I felt my safety was in danger?
This is crap. Arkadia goes to jail because she brought monsters into town because of her broken heart, but Elaralith the whore goes free after killing Paul twice. Interesting concept this Lyrenzia is.

Grant

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:27 pm

The always mocking bird Grant again.
Come on ... go kissing the feet of Darlok and do your own business and let do us our business.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:41 pm

Don't scorn him, Aragon, for he brought up a point I was about to. Elaralith told me "get out of town or die". Could I then have gone, gotten my friends, and killed her? Your logic says yes.

I said stop now and no one will get hurt! No one would've got hurt if everyone hadn't moved! When people say things, they usually mean them!!! And what damage was I going to do, as it was one person versus all of Elaralith's minions plus her.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:25 pm

Lyrenzia has already given it's verdict.

No further bickering is necessary.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:30 pm

Little Hermie, bickering is always nessasary. Just because they say one thing doesn't mean you need to follow it without question. And Aragon, I don't kiss anyones feet, and it proves your honor and intelligence when you insult people because you disagree with them.

Grant

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:08 am

Grant Herion wrote:So Dyluck, what you are saying is that if I get a few friends with me, both mages, and tell them to say that you Dyluck, had threatened us, and then we cast on you, but i only cast paralisis, I wouldnt be guility? And then if you came back, I could kill you again because I felt my safety was in danger?
This is crap. Arkadia goes to jail because she brought monsters into town because of her broken heart, but Elaralith the whore goes free after killing Paul twice. Interesting concept this Lyrenzia is.

Grant

I miss the part in your theoretical example where I did anything that would lead a bystander to believe I intended to carry out the supposed threat, which I didn't say with my own mouth either. Paul Laffing on the other hand, spoke by himself a sentence that could reasonably be interpreted as a threat, and then moved towards the intended target.

I also miss the part in the actual case where there was good evidence of Elaralith attacking Paul Laffing when he came back later, or do you think the sole testimony of Paul Laffing alone, which apparently was confused over the weapon that struck him, should be considered the shining light of all truth?

Paul Laffing wrote: Elaralith told me "get out of town or die". Could I then have gone, gotten my friends, and killed her? Your logic says yes.

Close, but not close enough.
Read again:
The key was, and always has been, that your "stop now and no one will get hurt" and advancing towards the halflings, were both considered by the majority of the jury, to be justifiable reasons for a bystander to paralyze you from the belief that you were about to harm the halflings with no justifiable cause in the eyes of the bystander.

The halflings would definately be responsible for your death. However, since you seemed to put so much effort into persecuting Elaralith, you probably haven't found enough evidence to prove the identity of the halflings you accused in trial #30, which is going to end soon.

Paul Laffing wrote:I said stop now and no one will get hurt! No one would've got hurt if everyone hadn't moved!

Maybe you should have thought of that, before you decided to move towards the halflings yourself. Ironically, it seems you fulfilled your own forecast.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 8:25 am

Dear Grant Herion,

where have I insulted you? As you know me, you should know, that this post above is not my style of writing.
But to come to the point, the writer of this small notice has seen some good points.
You are the one with your "movement" which declared to fight against Lyrenzia, but in the same time, you use Lyrenzias trials for your interests.
You work with Darlok, guard his castle, which blackmailed Lyrenzia and the whole town, but on the other hand, you see yourself as a citizen of this town.
It seemed, that you can't decide yourself on which side you are staying, Lyrenzias or Darloks, Troll's Bane or the self called Lord of the North.
This are two different sides, which don't work together. So make your decision, where your place is and keep yourself there.

With kind regards,

Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin
Councilor of Lyrenzia

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:29 pm

Hm Aragon, seems like you want people to choose sides? Who said you have to be with Lyrenzia or not? Sounds like you want a war Aragon, after all, that is what sides are for.

Grant

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:43 pm

Grant, the war has already begun.

~San~

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:46 pm

Why? Darlok is reviving the land... There is no need to go to war... San, your a has been, you were a war mongerer and at once time could start many wars. But now your a pathetic loser who keeps trying to get into fights and wars.

Grant Herion

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:24 pm

No Grant, you are pathetic.

If I was trying to get into a war, I'd have done it by now, dont you think? Your idiocy is quite alarming, as are your leadership skills.

Maybe you should have been a tailor instead of darloks lapdog?

~San~

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:37 pm

San, you try to start a "secret" uprising against Darlok. You try and get into the Movement. You are a war mongerer. There will be no war. Darlok is holding his part of the bargain. You want a war. No one else does. Idiot.

Grant

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:41 pm

Darlok is holding nothing except the blood of the people, Grant Herion.
If you cannot see this, you are as blindly led by power as he, and that makes you very very prime meat my friend.

If I was to start a "secret uprising" wouldent it be a secret? please Grant, use this "simple logic" you've so kindly educated me on, as far as you know, it could be part of some "master plan" , I've said time and time again I've come back to stop wars, not start them.

~San~

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:49 pm

Really? You come to stop and not start wars? Then when I look through the history of Trolls Bane, all those wars started by you were you just trying to stop them?
But, it does not matter. San you can do whatever you want. You can attack, try and stop Darlok or whatever you want, insult me all you want. But if I see you in Darlok's territory you might as well run because you are not welcome and probably never will be, but who really knows?

Grant

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:55 pm

My......past.......is of no concern to you Grant Herion, only the future is.

As for your territorial claim, I will walk where I please, when I please, how I please, and dont get me wrong, I may be a tailor, but I'm damn good at defending myself.

~San~

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:59 pm

San, don't be an idiot. You know as well as me that you are weak. If your a tailor, you wouldn't even walk into Darlok's rough country. Unless you wanted trouble, because that is what you will get. And let it be known, that any unwanted persons, you know who you are, that walk into Darlok's land will find trouble and pain beyond belief. Friends of mine and of Darloks and of any Movement members may feel free to walk freely through Darlok's land. And I am done with this discussion, it is impossible to argue with a village idiot.

Grant

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:10 pm

ahahahahaha

oh grant, you do make me laugh so.

I'f you've checked the history books, you would see I certainly am not weak.

I think your blindness also affects judgement of others.

As for walking into Darloks "rough" country, not as rough as the realm of Akarion which I travelled through, lots of fools there......you would fit right in.

~San~

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:30 am

Aragon wrote:The always mocking bird Grant again.
Come on ... go kissing the feet of Darlok and do your own business and let do us our business.

When the halfling attacks the castle, and other people, it BECOMES his business.