Click here for a solution to the argument about the quests

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:35 am

Alright, I have been in silent anger towards both the players and the GMs almost since the beginning of this argument about the drought and other quests in general. I have a solution. Its not 100%, but it will work if its actually considered.

I propose that the GMs make some kind of poll asking what the players enjoy in terms of quests ((some options could be Puzzles(using your head), Demon Slaying(not necessarily demons, but one directed more towards slaying evil), Story changing(kinds that will affect the very history of Illarion))).

What could also be done is, after the poll is taken for maybe a month, steps can be taken to create some quests for all players. Quests don't need to be directed to all groups at once though either (you can have a quest that requires only the strength of warriors and mages, and then later have a quest that requires the usage of intelligent minds).

I think these two ideas will allow the GMs to understand what the people want and can later create quests that will be more enjoyable all in all. This will cause a decrease in complaints and GMs will be able to rest a little easier.

Aradhul · Post by **Aradhul** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:39 am

Why cant the GM rest easy now? Where it is said all quest have to be enjoyable? In your life are things enjoyable all the time ABSOUTLY NOT. The game is like Real Life things are not always fun.

Xanthe Talon · Post by **Xanthe Talon** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:58 am

Yeah, but, do you like it when things are more fun? I do personally, but then agian, thats just me. I like the idea of Cain's.

Aradhul · Post by **Aradhul** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:03 am

Everbody likes it when things are fun but not all things are fun so get over it.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:29 am

What the hell? I propose an idea that would solve the problem of arguing and you just bash it! God damn, I think you need to get your facts right. Of course the characters wouldn't like it. That's the idea. The point of a game is to have fun. If you can't enjoy the RP, then it isnt worth it. A game is not designed to make people mad or upset. Sure, your character is not supposed to enjoy a drought, but the RP should be enjoyable in an OOC sense. If you're hating the drought, you're putting too much emotion into the game and thus are mixing OOC with IC.

Aradhul wrote:Everybody likes it when things are fun but not all things are fun so get over it.

That's true, but games are designed to be fun. The quest is not supposed to be fun for your character, but it SHOULD be fun for the player.

I'd also like to note that only post if you have constructive criticism, rather than just bashing ideas. Really, some people are just rude.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:45 am

Well, you can certainly make your own puzzle or storychanging quests as long as you have some imagination and know how to grab people's attention.

In fact I've already started a quest which will involve a lot of puzzle solving soon as the story progresses, and anyone can participate as long as they are willing.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:53 am

Dyluck wrote:Well, you can certainly make your own puzzle or storychanging quests as long as you have some imagination and know how to grab people's attention.

In fact I've already started a quest which will involve a lot of puzzle solving soon as the story progresses, and anyone can participate as long as they are willing.

Yes, I am aware of that, but this is in accordance to when the GMs decide to do these big elaborate quests that will definately affect ALL the players.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:11 am

Well anyways, how does this poll solve the issue of the drought or other quests? I don't really mind, but I think it we were to follow it afterwards, then there'd be less fun in figuring out other types of solutions.
I mean, most quests already involve a little bit of each. This quest has already included parts of all the categories you mentioned (at least some small parts in a way).
The grief about the drought isn't really that the solution isn't catered to a specific genre of solution. It's just that they've done such a "good" job of hiding all the other supposed alternate solutions that it seems like there's only one solution.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:44 am

You do relize this is not real life it is a game, having fun is why you play games.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:49 am

Dyluck wrote:Well anyways, how does this poll solve the issue of the drought or other quests? I don't really mind, but I think it we were to follow it afterwards, then there'd be less fun in figuring out other types of solutions.

Err.. the topic is about a solution for all the arguing. If this is put into effect, it should at least reduce the arguments and complaints about quests.

I don't think it would be less fun, because, if done right, it will be a system catered to different people and they will know that eventually they will have a turn to use their characters for a quest.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:00 am

That's what I meant. How does it stop the arguing and complaints about the quest? The problem isn't that there aren't solutions catered to different genres. The problem is they say there are a lot of options possible, but just that nobody can figure them out.

I don't get what's the point of running a poll, when you suggest the end result is that we will do ALL of them, and when the most quests already involve a little of each category so everyone can participate instead of "one quest per genre".

When I said "less fun", I mean we would know that all quests only had one generic solution, instead of exploring the options.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:29 am

Ugh... fine. I won't even bother to defend my idea. Its not like you're suggesting anything. Pointing out only the cons without offering solutions doesn't help anymore than my idea obviously doesnt.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:42 am

Uh... do you think maybe you get offended too easily?

I don't see a sign that says "don't analyze my idea unless you have a better one", but you want me to offer a solution to what?
If you'll just calm down then you might see that I'm saying the "problem" your idea is trying to solve isn't a "problem" at all, and isn't the same "problem" with the drought quest that people are complaining about.

Nobody's going to stop you or kill you if you still want to run a poll, geez.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:57 am

Dyluck wrote:Uh... do you think maybe you get offended too easily?

I don't see a sign that says "don't analyze my idea unless you have a better one", but you want me to offer a solution to what?
If you'll just calm down then you might see that I'm saying the "problem" your idea is trying to solve isn't a "problem" at all, and isn't the same "problem" with the drought quest that people are complaining about.

Nobody's going to stop you or kill you if you still want to run a poll, geez.

No, I don't get "offended too easily." Its just there are always people who shoot down my ideas. That's why I never bother. Calm down? I don't like it when people misinterpret what I say, but mostly, I am calm. I don't see how "Ugh... fine." is being aggressive or angry. Its a sign saying I don't want to put up with the put-downs and criticism when people won't bother to offer answers to make the idea better.

And... in all honesty, if you didnt see a sign saying, "don't analyze my idea unless you have a better one," then you didn't read my posts entirely. In my second post in this thread I clearly stated that I want constructive criticism. That means ideas that will make mine better, or better ideas.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 10:27 am

Cain Freemont wrote: And... in all honesty, if you didnt see a sign saying, "don't analyze my idea unless you have a better one," then you didn't read my posts entirely. In my second post in this thread I clearly stated that I want constructive criticism. That means ideas that will make mine better, or better ideas.

I read what you wrote, but I was expecting that you would understand what constructive criticism means. Constructive criticism includes criticism that is supported by a valid explanation that justifies it so that you can actually understand what's wrong with it thereby making it better. Not just "that's stupid" etc without explantions.

If you suggest that fans will solve our air pollution problem and I told you we didn't have air pollution in the first place, I'd say that's about the most constructive piece of criticism you could get.
"We don't acutally have that problem" or "Leave it the way it is" is a an idea too, no?

Notice I said:

"If you'll just calm down then you might see that I'm saying the "problem" your idea is trying to solve isn't a "problem" at all, and isn't the same "problem" with the drought quest that people are complaining about.

I can't make your idea better for solving one problem when you've got the wrong problem in the first place. You just get over agitated when your ideas get criticized whether for valid reasons or not, and consider it "shooting you down" and "putting you down".
I'm not here to "bash" your idea for no reason, alright? Besides I was ASKING you how your idea solves our problem, which just subsequently led to the discovery that it doesn't.

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:03 pm

I think it would be good to have different smaller quests which apply to different character types, and some larger quests (not affecting the entire island) that would require all the character types working together to solve. This way you could choose if you want to go on a quest, hang out at the tavern, go chop some trees or whatever.

I think the big complaint about this drought thing is that the entire island is thrown into it weather you want it or not. It's not to fun to be thrown into a quest that you (the player) did not wish to be involved in. (Yes it's a game and games are supposed to be fun for the player).

I first I hated this quest because there was nothing I could do but sit and watch everything wither. I could not really attack the ones my character saw as enemies because I don't play a lot and don't get a chance to pg like some do. But I still had fun making threats toward Grant and Darlok on the rpg board.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 5:03 pm

Croket if you are suggesting I powergame... LOL because you can ask Konstantin, he whopped my butt in a physical fight. I am half good at magic though...

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:26 pm

Just a quick note:

I like this particular quest, because it is not another so called 'quest' where the ONLY thing that happends is that a huge swarm of diabolical monsters storm the town (several times, to make it even more miserable), and half of the population shouts 'HOORAY - FINALLY SOME ACTION YEAH!'

Crocket, people are forced into the SCENE of the quest, but no-one forces them to be any real part of the quest. Furtherly, this quest has at least theoretical chance of really go and pick your side, not the chance to 'fight' or 'run'.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:38 pm

Caranthir, I have to thank you for these words.

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:46 pm

The reason I am enjoying this quest so much is because of the conspiracy theories abounding around it.

Whereas in the past many quests were rot worm attack on a Wednesday night and thats about it, in style and theme.

This one, let's everyone muck in and play their own very unique part.