About next version

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 10:31 am

Things we are planning for the next version so far:
- increased (above zero like now) monster intelligence
- changed combat algorithm (parry is harder, but damage lower)
- monsters more armored
- new graphics like male elf, some trees, spells, new items to produce
- new monsters
- some other minor changes (interface, scripts)

We are also thinking about a luxury system. This is how it is supposed to work:
Money is only useful when you spend it, not when you keep it. To realize that we will introduce all kinds of luxury goods (wine, expensive cloth, food ...). You earn luxury points when you waste this kind of goods. The points you collect will decay over time. To keep your luxury value up, you need to invest something from time to time. As in the feudal age, your social ranking depends on the lifestyle you can afford. This way you can gain ranks in the politics and become an influencing personality. Perhaps we will show the actual ranks on the homepage.
The result on the players should be the following:
Mighty players will rise in social standing and need much money to keep it up or increase it. They need to find other players, that support them with money or goods. In exchange they will gain their protection from enemies and their lord will support them in the court.
The problem I see coming is, that even most roleplayers are not willing to play a subordinate role. They like roleplaying, but only the super heroes, and not the usual crowd. If they play one of the crowd, he must at least be strongly against the superiors, never obeying their orders, like most of the peasants did.
I hope that some people will play this role anyway, or this system will be almost pointless.

martin · Post by **martin** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 10:59 am

i like this idea (social-status points, SP) very much.
to increase the dynamics of the system, i would suggest the following rules:
* death means a *massive* loss of SP.
* the char with the highest SP in illarion is automatically the "king". he lives in a palace etc.
* the char with the second most SP is the judge for whole illarion. whenever something comes to a court, he's the one to decide.
* the chars of each race with the highest SP are the "leaders" for their race. (judge and king are excepted here!).

these rules will ensure several things:
* not everyone would want to have a lot of SP.
* a king will need some kind of guards to be secure. dying would most probably mean to lose his status as king. the same goes for the other positions.
* etc.

there should be places INSIDE the game where one can see who holds these positions.

any comments?

martin

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 12:05 pm

Wouldn't it be more important to develop some basic things (like lockable doors etc...) first?
I mean the luxury system is a very good idea! But in my opinion the game isn't ready for such details.

Neonfire

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 12:11 pm

As long, as there is no real possibility to build houses, there is no real need for lockable doors. Building houses becomes important when the map editor is ready.

devNULL · Post by **devNULL** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 12:44 pm

When will the Mapeditor ready?? What is the status now?

Eleanor Rigby · Post by **Eleanor Rigby** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 6:59 pm

I think a luxery system is a nice idea, but the way martin and Bror suggested it isn't worked out well. First thing: The status of somebody depends not only of his luxuslifestyle.
2nd: And what if I want to play a race where material goods are not that important? Like the Myten in Siebenwind.
A luxerysystem where everyone can see somebodys lifestyle would be ok, but without automtical statusraising. Maybe someone wan'ts to play an evil knight, who earns a lot of money with robbery. I am afraid his social status wouldn't be that good, even if he has a luxerious lifestyle.
And another thing that would be necessary: A possibility to appear as someone with a lower lifestyle.

And yes, I think there are much basic things missing. Only to name some important points: Different languages. An opportunity to hide my identity, even for people who know me allready. A proper names-system. Writing.

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 7:17 pm

What is the problem with the luxury system for races that don't care for luxury? They won't care for the points either, but I said nowhere that you are forced to cumulate this points.

Eleanor Rigby · Post by **Eleanor Rigby** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 7:29 pm

True, you didn't say this. But martin wrote something about sozial status points, and the one with most of them would automatically get king et cetera...
Just wanted to say: Don't do what martin suggested, and the luxussystem isn't that important at the moment.

Nanuk · Post by **Nanuk** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 9:49 pm

Even though it is a nice feature, I would also skip it for the moment. It seems to be a complex problem and should be thought of deeply.

In addition I agree that other features are a more pressing matter. I just name a few:

more intelligent NPCs to whom you can talk to -> makes quests possible

implementation of all vocations (I know that the grafics are missing, but still)

Gesinnung (sorry do not know the word in English, this charma thingy)

more skills like identification of objects, stealing, languages and stealth (as Eleanor suggested), ...

limitation of carring objects (by the way: is it planned to have some kind of depot in the future?)

and so on ...

Nanuk

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 12:01 am

The map will be enlarged too. The map currently running on the testserver contains the whole north-western island of Nanuks map proposal.
Its not very professional, since the map editor is still missing, but it contains the different landscapes and trees, plants and rocks all over the place.

martin · Post by **martin** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 8:46 am

i'd suggest to work out the social-status thing better; it was just a "first approach" without working on it too long (just typed it in

).

however, i am open for corrections, and some of the points eleanor mentioned are worth to reconsider them.

martin

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 3:52 pm

Perhaps a social status should include :

- killing of monsters ( but only a very little bit !!! )

- attacking other people ( massive negative points )

- killing of dangerous criminal people ( everytime you KILL a player without him attacking you ( within two or five minutes ) before you attacked him will make you criminal for an hour playing time.

- giving away things to others without selling them, the prizes youtake for your wares - should be not too high(betraying) and not too low(market trouble), a skill would be needed (to guess what a thing may be worth) To use such, a trading system with two menues : things to give and things to buy, an overall worth calculation to compare both side (depending on your skill and affected a bit by charisma and a bit more by the bard skill)

When you have negative points, you are a criminal automatically... and gain few points status whenever you get killed.

Other method for the "criminal"-flag : Give the priests, Druids and Paladins an ability to see the GUILT of people ( and put in a spell of some school of magic )! If success, he sees the player name in fat red or a dark glow around the figure...

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 3:59 pm

The purpose of the LUXURY approach was to give people something to buy for their money (luxury has nothing to do with killing monsters, but perhaps we are talking about two different things).
How should the computer know, what is a fair price for an item? A fair price is anything players are willing to pay. The server can't go around and ask five people, what they would pay for an item and calculate an average. The skill of judging the worth of an item makes no sense to me on a free player market. (unless you are talking about a skill the player behind the character develops in real life).

Captain Kirk · Post by **Captain Kirk** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 4:56 pm

Hallo

right so bror

this killin things are more a honor thing

and for killin ppl i will not always a "great" negative point
ahh but for an evil player it must be good to kill the good or ?? (i thing satan will like it if u kill the pope ;-))

and why shall i let me kill to turn good again ?? there must be other ways too

Bye
Read ya
MfG

Capt. Kirk

Schattenfeuer · Post by **Schattenfeuer** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 7:29 pm

I thought bit about a the social point thingy and got this idea:
You can get a follower of another player. Always if the leader is gaining or loosing social points his followers are gaining or loosing a certain percentage, I would suggest 10-25%, of SP, too. This should make the follers protect theis master, because if he dies they will loose a lot of SP. And I think the leader's SP should be affected by his follewers (hmm.. maybe around 5-10%), too, to make him choose his followers wisely, maybe there should be a kind of limit. Of course follwers should be able to have their own followers.
Im not sure if these relationships should be public or not, maybe there should be 2 differnt types (secret and public) of followers with different percentages of affectiong eachother's SP (secret < public).

Dax · Post by **Dax** » Tue Apr 03, 2001 8:04 pm

Well as always, lets just try it out and see how it goes. Of course things will be changed as all things are in Illarion, but I belive once tried and as the gods see fit to add and subtract changes than it will be something everyone will enjoy.

Just to add however..

"what if you donate all your money?

"

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Tue Apr 03, 2001 10:41 pm

Sure, killing people gives you negative points - but having negative points is "positive" for an evil person

Jocas · Post by **Jocas** » Tue Apr 03, 2001 11:14 pm

I don't think killing people should be negative on the character. This game is about roleplaying, and why should a person who wants to roleplay as a evil character have to suffer. I think that if people who are good get positive points and go up in the social ladder, people who are bad should also go up a ladder. Maybe people who are really bad can be like a criminal leader, where being bad is positive for them.

Darkwalker

Nosaj · Post by **Nosaj** » Wed Apr 04, 2001 7:28 am

I think we're forgetting there must be a tangible benefit to the player (human behind the character) before a feature is used. Social points and guilt points are fine, but if no statistical basis is affected because of these factors it will be hard for the general public to use these points. Play acting for points can only go so far. Tangible benefits for players in general (more attack power, better defense) will help steer the whole user group to use these kinds of rules and point structures.

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Wed Apr 04, 2001 11:41 am

When I recall, how much effect the rank-graphics on the board had, on the amount of people posting here, I personaly think an ranking list of the 10 people with the most luxurious life style would be enough to make many players crazy for using the points.

Nosaj · Post by **Nosaj** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:56 am

Oops, I forgot the drive to be 'l33t

I stand corrected

I also noticed Advanced Duneons & Dragons used a lifestyle system. In order to maintain your social standing you must pay n amount each month.. if you fail then your lifestyle degrades a notch.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 10:32 am

Why not making some NPCs that sell only to criminals ? Or buy from them ? Those would not like to be approached by good persons. And the "good" dealers would prefer not to meet evil ones... they should sell same basic items, but with little differences. The "baddies" should sell things like lockpicks and stuff, and weapons and armor. And perhaps some bad spells. Well, what about selling spellbooks at the Library ???
And yes, the "Bad books" if any should be available at the library too, but in another room and for much money... And only for the use of understanding them, not to use them, that is sure. Such book dealers should sell to good and evil guys.

(Edited by Damien at 10:34 am on April 5, 2001)

Kjallha · Post by **Kjallha** » Fri Apr 06, 2001 2:24 pm

This refers to Nosaj and Damiens post.

Gentleman, I see both your points.

One say's "Illarion is based on things that might be somewhat 'pointless' however it is a goal to be the best"

Another says "Why should it be pointless, Lets start adding things that makes players WANT to reach the goal.. and that means everyone"

That's what I am hearing. Personally, Illarion is great, but yes it does lack alot of motive in it's early stages.

I desperately await "ANYTHING" that is some sort of a goal aside from gathering many of an item or maxing skills.

GOALS is the key word here. I have heard stories of the balance of water and fire. Personally I like the lava pools as they are warm and cozy. Us lizard folk need such things to survivce away from our warm lairs or to avoid sunning on heated rocks half the day.
Since so many want to see them gone however... what of a quest? I heard there is a statue out of place...

Perhaps you could randomly make a useful item and hide it somewhere on the map and then give clues to find it.

WHat about an easter egg hunt?! Whoever has the most gets a cash prize? We all need that.

You guys must guide this game.. without the temple servants hand in things we are as lost as fish aimlessly swimming in a pond never trying to get upstream.

Until next time I remain your loyal Servant

-Jal-

Through all the things he tried and did now old a bitter bitter man he is.

Sword · Post by **Sword** » Fri Apr 06, 2001 11:59 pm

if you are to add something then it should be to a good or bad people's liking.
such as a bank system,or library, or a business in which you need certain supplies
and tools.
and then there will be more of a luxery type part added to illarion.(more good you do in business the more SP)

Sword

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Sat Apr 07, 2001 2:39 am

Even Tibia has more goals than Illarion...
Bror, wherever you are, ADD SOME EXITEMENT TO ILLARION!
And... the alatars are missing!
I cannot see them! And Im a spider too!
Anyway, hiding a mystical sword here and there would be a nice touch..
If Martin comes up with any monsters then hand em in.
Oh, yes, the teleporters are useless and they are cluttering up he land.
At least make them work.

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Sat Apr 07, 2001 4:45 pm

I hope we will update this weekend. Sign in for the newsletter to get informed in time.

Erdrick · Post by **Erdrick** » Sat Apr 07, 2001 11:53 pm

Update Illarion to build 21?
I didn't think it was going to be out for at least a week more...
What are we in for? I will sign up now (newsletter)
I swear I did already but I havent gotton anything...

Bror · Post by **Bror** » Sun Apr 08, 2001 2:49 pm

I mailed to you email adress, not the newsletter!