Powergaming Orcs...?

Aerinkoth · Post by **Aerinkoth** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:30 am

I don't know if everybody thinks this or not, but this is a thought/problem/whatever.

Since I've came here, I've been pushing my character to his limits, without powergaming. I can kill all surface monsters, but no cave ones unfortunately. Anyway, in my last post, an orc that I beat in combat (who I think wasn't here as long as me, and had a number similar to mine) complained that he was beat, then dared to call me a powergamer OOC. About two, three days later, the very same orc that I beat seems to be a demon killer...

Is it just me, or is every newbie orc that is a friend with Ashburg an unbelievable fighter in a very short amount of time? There have been people that called these particular group of orcs 'powergamers' though I wouldn't know because I never see them in town often (or at least, a few of them). But anyway, I'm bringing this to everybody's attention because I think it's quite odd that I, along with others, pushed our characters to the limits without powergaming, yet some newbie orcs are somehow shock troop combatants...

Akrael · Post by **Akrael** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 3:14 am

I don't see how it would be easy to powergame, because stamina sort of stops it you do know? Powergaming is no fun, it just rips the fun and the point of a game away.

Ashburg Gragthanggar · Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:33 am

I am tired of this shit! I don't powegame, everyone who knows me can tell you that.

Who is this orc you talk about that you dueled? I want to know who these newbie orcs are that are so strong.

All you people who call me a powergamer can shut the hell up until you provide better proof than "oh he is really stong...he must powergame".

Excuse my language but I am fed up with hearing this.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:34 am

I don't think fighting takes stamina, well at least very little.

Gargoth Targûn · Post by **Gargoth Targûn** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:56 am

I know most orcs around and if you really think "all" are that strong fighters either you have met very few or you are just generalizing or you character is rather a weak fighter. I have seen a ton of chars with numbers 46***-48*** that can easily fight everything on the surface.

Just what have you been doing to push your character to the limit as you say? Does it involve taking off armour to go and fight zombies or scorpions to make sure they can hit you?

Also I am pretty sure most orc players made their chars with strong fighting attributes, the ones that do not want to be sort of a shaman of course. That adds alot to how strong a fighter you are just right from the start.

I have told quite a few curious players who wants to be fighters what I did to get my char strong, I have even on occation showed them how to fight. And if they can stay alive they have seen good results. It does not involve going and letting yourself just get hit by a monster nor does it involve taking off armour or using a weaker weapon to kill them slower or whatever. It is simply kill as fast you can and try to stay alive, more times than not you have to run for your life. Also we like to go and hunt monsters not by ourselves but atleast two a time or even more. This really makes everything alot easier and is alot more fun, if I go by myself and fight something I stay for about 10-15 min before I get bored and do something else.

The game works itself out rather nicley tho, if you fight in a lame way that does not really make sence (ie: let monsters just hit you or take off armour when you fight them etc) you stay weak for a much longer time.

Grishnak Bloodlust · Post by **Grishnak Bloodlust** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:12 am

I take it you mean that Ashburg's friends are the Bloodskulls.

The Bloodskull Clan looks after its own. It's easier to train when you hunt in packs because you are less likely to die. We hunt often, as orcs would.

There is no powergaming to it.

Kzarak Zhoruch · Post by **Kzarak Zhoruch** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:46 pm

First of all, orcs are a warriorrace and I believe but cant remember, that they are able to be made stronger when the character is created making them good melée troops.

Secondly, like Grishnak wrote we do take care of our own.
I have personally equipped more clanorcs with my blacksmithcrafting than i can count on both hands.So they do get good equipment very soon.
The same goes for healthbrews.

3rd thing is that to become a member of the skulls, one has to proove that one knows ones main proffession well.
Most orcs beeing warriors, will have to show their worthyness in battle.

So most that have made it into the clan, are already good warriors.

Aerinkoth · Post by **Aerinkoth** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:30 am

@Ashburg

I never said you powergamed, but I'm just listing what others told me. Another one of these bits that were told to me is that you used vases against monsters as you hit them with a war axe. Again, I'm not saying this is 100% true, I need a confirmation or something. I don't know the orc that I fought (maybe Pok'ash? I don't know) but his number was in the mid 4****'s I witnessed. Even now, there is an orc with a 47*** number who challenges everybody to duels, who can beat experienced characters...odd. And of course, when somebody sees a character with a 42*** who can kill demons, beholders, demon skeletons, etc. and calls everybody a weakling in game, they will feel disheartened and talk. If you're tired of hearing it, maybe you shouldn't be publicly displaying your strength so much.

@Gargoth

Please cite where I said *all* orcs. I'm talking about the particular newbie ones, and I never made a generalization. They go beyond simply killing surface monsters, they can kill experienced fighters that have been around much longer in a heartbeat.

I also said 'push my character to the limits WITHOUT POWERGAMING.' A little reading comprehension skill here and there will go a long ways you know. I consider taking off armor and letting monsters bat you around powergaming for sure.

I'm aware of the attributes, but I doubt most lizardpeople (who do often max their attributes, and technically have the best fighting attributes in the game) can put up even a decent fight with some of these orcs that are around today.

@Grishnak

They're most likely Bloodskulls, but all I know for sure is that they're friends of Ashburg. When I see an orc who just arrived here a week ago, seeing him as one that can already kill cave monsters, I'm fairly sure it's techincally impossible to get that good so quickly without powergaming. It's just common sense.

@Kzarak

Again, lizardpeople are the race with the attributes possible to make them the best fighters in the game. So it's not a matter of whether they are a warrior race or not, lizardpeople have their history of combat too, but I fail to see many that can kill cave monsters in a week.

If I remember, the Bloodskulls was not made up of excellent fighters recently. Even Veralion, the leader, cannot kill demons in the game, and some of the members are even stronger than him. You *can* roleplay it to where he should be the strongest, but technically, the Bloodskulls were not made up of good fighters before.

---

I'm mainly talking about the newbies that just arrived here. It would come to no surprise to me if I found out that some of these newbies just find a stronger orc and whack at them with a weak weapon for hours. After all, not every orc from what I've seen are great roleplayers. A lot are, but some aren't.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:37 am

I don't see how you classify how they train powergaming. They 'hunt' demons in packs. Two experienced battle hardened orcs with a few newer orcs fight demons together. How is that powergaming? They do it for riches, to be stronger for wars, that is what orcs do. if your character doesn't like being weaker then a waring race, then you should be really disapointed in being weaker then a few hobbits.

Aerinkoth · Post by **Aerinkoth** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:52 am

@Grant

I wouldn't call my character 'weak,' he has beaten two of these orcs before they magically became uber fighters in four days...and with many healing potions, he can manage to take down a fairly tough monster.

The question is, *how* did such orcs manage to gain the ability to kill demons in such a short time? Without powergaming, it can't be technically possible to do it so quickly.

Serpardum did imply in a very old post (to Dunthor maybe) that it is considered powergaming to rely on older players to help newbies fight one of the toughest beasts in the game, demons, so newbies can get stronger. I'm searching for the post right now, so hold your pants...

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:00 am

It is pretty simple, you can hit anything with a war axe. You attack say an ogre or a zombee or some scorpions with a war axe and get some experience. Then you go hunting with orcs and they block the demon while you walk up to it and hit it over and over again and you get plenty of experience. I don't see how it is powergaming since your character isn't getting hurt and in RL i would expect people would do it.

Gargoth Targûn · Post by **Gargoth Targûn** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:21 am

At any rate Arenikoth I am sure there are atleast 30 non orc chars with a higher number than you that can beat you. Orcs just show more and well we try to as well we have been pushing to be more ruthless and in a way evil like, just more orcish. Guess that is going pretty well

And well I am sure Pok'Ash would have alot of trouble with a demon for instance but give him a waraxe and he can go and kill worms by himself all he needs to do is move hit move hit...if he is somewhat skilled in using the arrows on the keyboard really it is very easy.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:22 am

ya, their are plenty of other characters that are strong for their number and are newbies in a sense. A 46*** cast hept kels perfectly when he was attacking me... But all of that will stop since magic books are harder to find...

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:24 am

arent they easier to get now??? since you can get them in the library

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:26 am

Shhhhhhh you will ruin the secret! But I think some of the stronger runes like Hept and Qwan are hard to find.

Ashburg Gragthanggar · Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:28 am

Aerinkoth wrote:@Ashburg

I never said you powergamed, but I'm just listing what others told me. Another one of these bits that were told to me is that you used vases against monsters as you hit them with a war axe. Again, I'm not saying this is 100% true, I need a confirmation or something.

Yeah...someone came to me and called me a powergamer, and said something about vases. When I confronted him about it and asked him when he seen me, he walked away telling me to forget it. This is a lie.

I don't know the orc that I fought (maybe Pok'ash? I don't know) but his number was in the mid 4****'s I witnessed. Even now, there is an orc with a 47*** number who challenges everybody to duels, who can beat experienced characters...odd.

It sounds like Pok'ash to me, he does not fight cave monsters, in fact he can barely face the stronger monsters above land. Now I have NEVER seen a character with a 47*** fight a demon, and I doubt there is any at this time.

And of course, when somebody sees a character with a 42*** who can kill demons, beholders, demon skeletons, etc. and calls everybody a weakling in game, they will feel disheartened and talk. If you're tired of hearing it, maybe you shouldn't be publicly displaying your strength so much.

I'm sorry you feel disheartened by my character's personality...you really shouldn't let it get to you. Like Gargoth said, we're pushing to be more orc like.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:31 am

Also, just because a person can block a demon doesn't mean they can fight a demon. In Grants prime he had to use two shields to block a demon, he couldn't fight one with a sword without help. So keep that in mind, and i agree with Ashburg, I have not once seen a number above 45*** fight a demon/rot alone with 1 shield and 1 sword and no magic. I think a lot of it is exasgeration.

Aerinkoth · Post by **Aerinkoth** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:01 am

@ Grant

Of course you can fight a demon if you can block it. I'm not talking about two shields, but one even. Even so, your character is a mage.

Anyway, I couldn't find the post, but maybe somebody here remembers it. Dunthor (or some dwarf) was complaining that he couldn't fight demons after he was killed, so he went down with his friends so they can basically be shields as he attacked the creatures. That *is* powergaming, because it wouldn't make RL sense either. Imagine an orc battling with a demon, blocking his attacks as the furious demon swings his claws at the fighters shield. Then a weakling comes by and begins to whack at the demon. Would it make sense for the demon to only concentrate on the character that he is failing to hit, or to just knock the newbie off in a swift blow or two. I think that's taking advantage of the games lack of decent AI, and taking advantage of the games technical features to gain large skill, is in my eyes, powergaming.

@Gargoth

You never even met me in the game, I can assure you, I'm not a crappy fighter. I made the attributes very high, and the skills achieved for a reason. Does everybody assume this just because I complain about the orcs? This is strange. In any case, I don't know any non orc character with a number higher than mine that can beat me in combat.

@Ashburg

I'm not lying, I didn't call you a powergamer. For the third damn time, what I say is unconfirmed. These are mass RUMORS spreading about, they may be false, but they may be true, I don't know. All I'm doing is seeking confirmation and trying to get things cleared up. I never said there was a 47*** orc that can beat demons, but I have witnessed him beat some tough characters.

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 8:35 pm

ok Ashburgs strong, but not a powergamer. also the orcs are being called
"flower orcs" and what not, so they are working to become more orc like by getting Stronger. Just because there strong doesnt mean there powergamers. and now that there tryingto become more orc like and stronger, people accuse them as powergamers.

Kzarak Zhoruch · Post by **Kzarak Zhoruch** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:19 am

Well my point was simply:
If you create an orc character, that soon joins bloodskulls and get help in equipment, healingpotions and a lot of other things, this character will learn fighting more quickly.

If a newly created mage character is taken into Dylucks academy soon and given a wand and manapotions and taught diffrent tricks of magic, he will learn magic A LOT faster than a player without this assistance.
Online time has something to do with it as well.
Some players might spend 6hrs a day in Illarion, while others only 30 minutes.

But there are unfortunately powerplayers out there, yes, and I cant say they are mainly orcs, this is what I react against.This indirectly points the finger at Ashburg and the bloodkskulls.
Since the topic is named "powerplaying orcs".

Pok'ash · Post by **Pok'ash** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:25 am

Mr.Palmsugur why are you sucking up to Ashburg there?

@Grant What are you talking about magic books are hard to find I was in the library reading trying to become a druid and I found a magic Rune I am soooooooo pisssed at that when I try to cast magic it says you dont understand that spell. since I didnt put my intel. any points.

Also Orcs always hunt in tribes like one blocks a demon while the others surround it and fight it. It is a part of Orc roleplay so you cant call them powergammers is they hunt in tribes for there money to buy there group some amour and hope one day they may do the same thing with other new orcs that come to this land.

Poke

Kzarak Zhoruch · Post by **Kzarak Zhoruch** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:52 am

pok...don't tell me your one of those ***** that can't separate OOC and IC. Simply cause our characters IC are in a sort of "conflict" your calling me a suckup and palmsugar OOC?

I've met Ashburg several times since we are in the same clan and I've never seen him powerplay, that's all I said, it's not a suckup, its a statement.

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:17 am

@Pok'Ash Thats why you can buy one magic book, and one druidry book in the shop, so somthing like that doesn't happen.

Kzarak Zhoruch · Post by **Kzarak Zhoruch** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:25 am

(ooops! didnt read the posts carefully enough, sorry pok)