Proposal To Lyrenzia:

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:22 pm

Greetings Lyrenzia council members of the Judicial System,

I have seen the error in my ways and have learned that just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I have to try and stop you, I can instead give you my ideas and I hope you use them. Here are a few proposals to you:

1. If 1 law is broken twice in a trail you do not add on to it. For example, in the Elararith case, she attacked Cain twice, which would deserve 10 hours of prison because its 5 hours everytime there is a fight in town. You should change that and add on to it.

2. I would like to propose that the time a theif is in jail be determined by how much he stole. So every gold coin he took would be 30 seconds of jail. It could add up very quickly, and I think it would be more effective.

3. A police force would be very effective when on duty. Say it would be composed of volunteers, they would stay in town while on duty, ((which would be 1 hour or 2)) and would watch for him problems in town. I am not sure if you could do this, but it would help very much.

Bumbol Woodstock

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:39 pm

Items stolen could be worked out to SMACC prices for prison time, I like this idea of prison time related to items stolen. To add to this one too if the items are returned within a week of being found guilty then the prison time worked out for what was stolen could be reduced by half, or two thirds. The rest of the time served would be compensation.

I have my worries about creating a Police Force. I think it would be too easy for someone to infiltrate and abuse their rights. Perhaps they could be a Witness Watch. They could patrol round town, and if a situation was found they would not intervene but instead they could note what they saw to be given as evidence to Lyrenzia. This way Lyrenzia would not impose on the townspeople too much.

Hermie

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:59 pm

I can't alleviate of how glad I am to see this, I your proposals will be concidered, I assure you.

This is the right way of trying to influence our actions, Bumbol.
You may also send a letter to any councilor if you have any further ideas.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:28 am

Shouldn't also the 'unjustified attack on someone' law be removed as it basically constitues as attempted murder which holds a longer sentence?

Also, if someone tried killing someone but were losing the fight because the victim was a better fighter and the criminal ran away then the criminal could claim it was not attempted murder but an unjustified attack. We don't know whether the criminal was trying to kill or just injure the victim. Would Lyrenzia please give me their opinion on this?

Hagen von Rabenfeld · Post by **Hagen von Rabenfeld** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:23 am

Exactly this happened to me Hermie, i had to raise my weapon in self-defense and was accused of murder afterwards. Although the situation was quite tricky, as the criminal was even accusing me under a false identity, the court found out the truth. The reason this went so well is simple. The involved witnesses gave their best to describe what they had seen and knew about the involved persons from previous encounters, in short they cooperated. This made it possible for the court to make a just decision. If a majority of the citizens is willling to cooperate with the court, it is almost impossible to abuse this system, but if the witnesses wouldnt have reported to the court, because they didnt trust Lyrenzias judgement, i could have been jailed althought i was innocent.

The point is that the court will do less failures the more citizens contribute to its trials. The more people take part in the trials the more diffcult it is to use them for ones own agendas, for the plaintiff, the accused one and even the judges.

I agree with Hermie that there should be a longer sentence for attempted murder, perhaps combined with a financial compensation for the victim.(note not to reduce the time of imprisonment) If a guilty person should repeat his crime or try to take revenge on the plaintiff the following sentence should be drastically increased. Many complained of being killed as revenge for a trial and feel left alone from Lyrenzia. To trade ones life for some hours of imprisonment for the criminal seems not to be a good idea to some people.

~Hagen von Rabenfeld~

John Laffing · Post by **John Laffing** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 4:07 am

A question for Lyrenzia:

Can you remain anoynomous ((spelling?)) to the person you are accusing, or does your name have to be displayed? For example, when someone reports me doing something wrong, the court case shows that *Someone* accused me of doing such and such.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:16 am

Dear John Laffing,

It would maybe possible to stay annonymous for the public by accusing someone, if there is a fear of life, when accusing an evil criminal.
But for the judges the accusing person has to be known.

Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin
Councilor of Lyrenzia

((For the question of jail times, it is limited due to ooc-reason to the maximum of 10 hours, because the jail time is online time. Between the range of 1 to 10, there are possibilities of discussing which amount one crime may have. Further questions to this, PM me, please.))

John Laffing · Post by **John Laffing** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:37 pm

Thank you for the answer, because that would be my recommendation if you could not remain anonymous. Well, its one more thing for me to know!

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:55 pm

So I could be accused of commiting a crime by someone who only The Lyrenzia judge knows the identity of? Interesting, unless I have misjudged your words.

Hagen, you were lucky that it happened in public where "unbiased" witnesses were. Had it happened elsewhere with friends of his nearby who knows what might have happened to you.

Algoran.

((edit : forgot to sign post.))

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:01 pm

Well I have to admit the current laws are a bit vague and there aren't that many specifics yet, and so the "unjustified attack" section is to basically cover as many possible scenarios as possible that haven't been put to words yet.

To the idea of a guard force, I highly doubt people would be confident about the quality of simply volunteers.
Before anyone can really decide whether they want such a force, you need to specify exactly what power they will have and more specific credentials as to how they are recruited.

Personally I find it very unnecessary. If anyone saw a crime, they could attempt to stop it anyway they could if they were available.

And as I've always said, there isn't enough manpower to spread across time and place anyways.

To Algoran,
Aragon only said "maybe". This is not an issue that has been decided on paper. This will likely only be possible in cases of crimes without a person-victim.

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:08 pm

Thankyou for clearing that issue up for me Dyluck.

Algoran.

Algoran Smiles to himself and walks away

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:16 am

A police force..interesting. I believe not so long ago Bumbol you took it upon yourself to declare yourself "Patrol Officer" and you carried out such acts as attacking innocent people whom you framed as criminals, murdering randomly those who you considered crinimals and so forth...

After seeing such behavior I think it is quite reasonable to want that there NEVER be a "police force" of the kind of which you refer to and especially for there never to be a "police force" of which you are part of.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:36 pm

Hm Elaralith, I am curious, can you tell me 1 person I killed when I was a patrol officer? And yes, do not dodge this answer.

Bumbol Woodstock

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:21 pm

A dwarf I believe, and Xerake Slade Bumbol. Oh yes, and you tried to kill me for casting in town. From my understaning, a patrol officer doesn't seek to kill, but rather, capture those who pose no life threat to them.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:23 pm

Xerake Slade and I dueled. I don't remember ever fighting him out of anger unless he did something I deemed bad. However I might be wrong but I doubt I am. And unknown writer how am I to say anything when you don't say your name?
Bumbol Woodstock

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:36 am

Bumbol, perhaps the unknown fears for his life against your evil violence that you have displayed so many times in the past?
The unknown writer has but listed a few whom you have done atrocious acts as a self-named "patrol officer".

I think the public really doesn't need such "patrol officers" as you Bumbol who only wish to abuse power for your own benefit.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:42 am

Yes Elaralith, I am only around to abuse power and kill people. I do it sooo often. But Elaralith, you dodged my question. Name me a person I killed as a patrol officer.

Bumbol Woodstock

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 12:47 am

Elaralith, you are no-one to preach about evil violence.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:41 am

Those who are anonymous, Bumbol, are the best witnesses.

In any case, I remember you fighting and murdering Xerake just for calling you short (and, you are short as you're a hobbit, no?). He can deal his own form of justice, I'm just naming somebody you hurt when you were a "patrol" officer.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 2:11 am

When Xerake comes and says that, I will say something. But until then I don't completely remember that.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 8:03 pm

In strange places can be found answers. But in your case Bumbol it isn't so strange as I didn't "dodge" your question. It was answered by the unknown writer very well, and I have no need to repeat words you have already heard to you I am sure.

Hermie, you are a nobody to tell me that I am "no-one to preach about evil violence". Further more you are nobody to stick your nose in things where it does not belong.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 8:56 pm

Look at Elaralith bite out at anyone who brings back her violent past. This is fun, Elaralith, you do know that no one takes you seriously as a priestess of Elara now right? Because of your past?

Bumbol Woodstock

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 9:48 pm

What a shame, I am a nobody, at least in Elaralith's eyes. It goes without saying that nobody is perfect. So I suppose to Elaralith I am perfect. It's good to see you can still maintain your hypocracy too.

Hermie

Bei Tian Kensai · Post by **Bei Tian Kensai** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:54 am

Please, do not condem Elaralith....for you forget the great things she has done for our community...when i first arrived people refused to listen to me when i asked to learn, but she offered to train me.

Does it matter that I was killed by a giant ogre..twice..
NO!

because when I was left to fend for myself she helped me...so please, let whatever she has done in the past go, for the sake of the new...

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:08 am

She seems to not let me forget my past when I was young and wet around the ears so I shall not forget hers.

Pok'ash · Post by **Pok'ash** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:07 am

Pok'ash walks around the board and stops when he sees this thread and see's stuff about a girl named Elaralith. And writes the best he can in human.
Mrs. Elaralith why do you pick on little halflings? That not nice you should go pray if you really priest.

Pok'ash

Grogor · Post by **Grogor** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:16 am

Pok'ash wrote:Pok'ash walks around the board and stops when he sees this thread and see's stuff about a girl named Elaralith. And writes the best he can in human.
Mrs. Elaralith why do you pick on little halflings? That not nice you should go pray if you really priest.

Pok'ash

((Human? You mean english.))

Pok'ash · Post by **Pok'ash** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:26 am

(( Well I was trying to talk like orcs which have bad grammer some do and I call it human because when Orcs talk its called Orcish so I call it Human because its there language. Also like Elven.))

Grogor · Post by **Grogor** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:34 am

Pok'ash wrote:(( Well I was trying to talk like orcs which have bad grammer some do and I call it human because when Orcs talk its called Orcish so I call it Human because its there language. Also like Elven.))

((I understand. Sorry, I did not know you were an orc.))

Pok'ash · Post by **Pok'ash** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:00 am

((it is quite alrite))