http://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=10507
I thought it best to post this here in order to get feedback and discussion regarding this change rather then some not aware and having mantis discussions later.
Reevaluate the use of attributes in fighting
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Achae Eanstray
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Re: Reevaluate the use of attributes in fighting
How about you post the options here and set up a poll? For those who refuse to access Mantis...
Edit: I thought this thread was about the ticket you wanted to ask for opinions on the forum first, sorry.
Edit: I thought this thread was about the ticket you wanted to ask for opinions on the forum first, sorry.
Re: Reevaluate the use of attributes in fighting
* try to read the mantis post but dont understand, may be my ENG is to bad for this
* hope a german text will come for discussion
* hope a german text will come for discussion
Re: Reevaluate the use of attributes in fighting
I haven't finished fixing my pre-VBU character build because of the high cost. If another change is made to the attributes requiring yet more re-distribution, I hope at least we'll be given the option to reset things.
I'll re-read everything later when I have more time to think about it and give feedback but that's my knee jerk reaction.
I'll re-read everything later when I have more time to think about it and give feedback but that's my knee jerk reaction.
Re: Reevaluate the use of attributes in fighting
I've already written to Vilarion regarding similar thoughts on this, which has also been passed on to the gm team, so I won't go on in length about it here. But, I'll put the tall and short of it here to see what the players think.
Before learning about these changes (and especially before looking at Mantis!) I was going by the old way whereby Dexterity was an attribute for a fighter char. If it is the intention to remove the need for Dex, for a fighter char, this means I have wrecked my character beyond oblivion on the npc trainer ig (I don't need a crafter attribute for a fighter char). I calculated it and now it would take me 65,536 gold to get back to optimum fighter attributes (according to the proposed changes). I went overboard, testing things as I learned of changes and so on. Whilst I think that simplifying the system and changing it in this way would help make everything more clear and ultimately 'fix' the fighting system (which would bring about a welcoming sigh of relief), I think that it should be considered how to deal with the fallout of this (reset the trainer? you probably have a better idea).
It does makes sense to have Dexterity (skill in performing tasks, especially with the hands IE how well one wields a weapon and so on. You might be a strong oaf but you can't hold your weapon!) as a fighter skill, but I agree that it is not entirely needed if the goal is to simplify the system so that it actually WORKS. The only benefits for having Dex as a main fighter attribute would be that we would have a more diverse range of fighters. However something like personalization and diversity could be handled with a secondary set of attributes like Q-wert proposes. Once the core values actually work within the code THEN start looking at how to diversify it. If too many attributes messes up the system and makes it overly complicated - get rid of it into the trash.
That's my two cents. Maybe I'll find some more loose change in my pockets but you're welcome to take that for now.
Before learning about these changes (and especially before looking at Mantis!) I was going by the old way whereby Dexterity was an attribute for a fighter char. If it is the intention to remove the need for Dex, for a fighter char, this means I have wrecked my character beyond oblivion on the npc trainer ig (I don't need a crafter attribute for a fighter char). I calculated it and now it would take me 65,536 gold to get back to optimum fighter attributes (according to the proposed changes). I went overboard, testing things as I learned of changes and so on. Whilst I think that simplifying the system and changing it in this way would help make everything more clear and ultimately 'fix' the fighting system (which would bring about a welcoming sigh of relief), I think that it should be considered how to deal with the fallout of this (reset the trainer? you probably have a better idea).
It does makes sense to have Dexterity (skill in performing tasks, especially with the hands IE how well one wields a weapon and so on. You might be a strong oaf but you can't hold your weapon!) as a fighter skill, but I agree that it is not entirely needed if the goal is to simplify the system so that it actually WORKS. The only benefits for having Dex as a main fighter attribute would be that we would have a more diverse range of fighters. However something like personalization and diversity could be handled with a secondary set of attributes like Q-wert proposes. Once the core values actually work within the code THEN start looking at how to diversify it. If too many attributes messes up the system and makes it overly complicated - get rid of it into the trash.
That's my two cents. Maybe I'll find some more loose change in my pockets but you're welcome to take that for now.
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Reevaluate the use of attributes in fighting
Dexterity is not just a crafter stat, actually it has a influence in fighting as most high end fighters have at least 10-12 dexterity. I can't read code so well however I know that dexterity is about 1/5th the damage calculation in melee, also perhaps having to do with critical chance or critical calculation.
The way fighting works with attributes is simple and straight forward and it does make specialisation because you cannot effectively multiclass your char, either you're a physical character dealing with ranged and melee (archers and melee will have similar builds but it can differ) or you're a magic character, alchemist, or priest, sure these things are not defined yet but they will be. If you know how the stats work you can make a pretty hardcore dps char fairly easily, or you can make a balanced char, as for the difference between rogues and knights, thats all roleplay based, not stat based.
Stats are not the problem when it comes to char diversity, we would need more defined things ig like skill trees or different perks for the levels. Don't fix it if it's not broken.
The way fighting works with attributes is simple and straight forward and it does make specialisation because you cannot effectively multiclass your char, either you're a physical character dealing with ranged and melee (archers and melee will have similar builds but it can differ) or you're a magic character, alchemist, or priest, sure these things are not defined yet but they will be. If you know how the stats work you can make a pretty hardcore dps char fairly easily, or you can make a balanced char, as for the difference between rogues and knights, thats all roleplay based, not stat based.
Stats are not the problem when it comes to char diversity, we would need more defined things ig like skill trees or different perks for the levels. Don't fix it if it's not broken.