Get rid of banning npcs or..

[Aegohl]

My suggestion might be realized by a script.

I don't know if I like your suggestion. "I want to rp today. Is a guard player ingame to give me permission?"

I realize you can't make a rule for players to "wind down" between conflicts, but it should be suggested and encouraged by players and GM's alike and if players continually harass someone without giving them a break they should be taken aside for a talk about making the game fun for everyone.

But the reality is that right now it's far from there being villains going overboard. There is simply no villains.

Keep in mind that among the things that can get you banned from a town is simply leaving Galmair (because of it's law about owing taxes even after leaving), or not being a citizen of any city (in Cadomyr). Those sorts of things should be handled by human guards, and if they're not handled, who cares? No one's getting hurt.

[Juliana D'cheyne]

Having been an outlaw since the VBU and before with alternately banned from Cad, occasionally allowed inside and once or twice paying or threatening someone to sell some things I can say whether allowed in Cadomyr or not doesn't much matter in the scheme of using the two other towns. If banned from all three that would definitely be a problem. Is there someone banned from all three towns?

When banned from trolls bane, the depot at the arena was still accessible for towns people to go and even meet the "bad" guys there. That is unless you simply ignore the ban altogether which was the usual case. I wouldn't like to go "back" to the way Gobaith was.. bullies able to take over things and lots of people were discouraged from ever logging in the game. One of the reasons the online list is now showing for everyone... i.e. part of the problem was that some not wishing for that type of roleplay over and over again. Make no mistake.. it can be fun occasionally, this character helped take over Trolls bane a few times

The "bad" guys that wish to always be "bad" make others not wishing that roleplay to avoid it after awhile. There are some very well roleplayed "bad guys" that aren't "bad" all the time but also offer other interesting roleplay that players wish to see and be around their character. An option also is to simply step out of town in order to roleplay with the "bad" guys. The Inn is the alternative at the moment being freely teleported to. I would prefer a ban over the mines or prison for this character.. each has their wishes also depending on roleplay.

[Uhuru]

I wouldn't like to go "back" to the way Gobaith was.. bullies able to take over things and lots of people were discouraged from ever logging in the game. One of the reasons the online list is now showing for everyone... i.e. part of the problem was that some not wishing for that type of roleplay over and over again.

Yes, it can become quite repetitive and lets face it, the people facing it aren't given an option. They must face this bully, who is interrupting their RP, ignore him, or leave. And really, the last two options aren't very satisfying for anyone. And when you've faced down the same bully day after day, for over a month, it gets rather tiresome.

I don't mind the town ban, I just wish it wasn't the first option employed, or more often, the only option employed. There are other ways to deal with troublesome issues.

[Djironnyma]

I don't know if I like your suggestion. "I want to rp today. Is a guard player ingame to give me permission?"

We dont ban players from the gamne but from one town. So there is a lot of other options to roleplay. Furthermore bans even create Roleplay. Lets take Verns ban as example:

• Two diplomats, one twonleading char and one townleading npc are in negotiations about his ban
• it startet an big IG investigation involved a half dozen of chars
• It was topic of atleast one town meeting
• http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 89&t=39297
• http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 89&t=39309

All that just happend in reason of the ban. So dont tell me a ban kills all roleplay.

And once again, atleast runewick never use a ban to punish someone. A ban is ever an act of protection (or a political instrument if you ban a whoule fraction) and even then it had never happend just because one "accident" they have ever a story of provoking, attacking and threating chars. If we want to punish someone we use other options e.g. the prision mine.

Furthermore i can assure you that theres ever a way around a ban, if the char works on it and dont just sit in a corner and complain.

[Mephistopheles]

Some people dont want to bend their roleplay to suit a leader they dislike especially if they are done wrong by the leader (or feel they had been done wrong) also as uhuru said its always a first choice before even attempting to talk to the char or settle things that way.

The case of the current plot ig has little to do with the actual ban but the willful lying in the face of the law. That is what slander is. The character vern is an honorable type who never bends due to a steadfast dwarven nature. He would never admit to something he hasnt done and he takes accusations that are lies or half truth dead seriously and as attacks against him. Just as any knight would. So i ask what would be proper rp in this case? To bend just so he can enter a town he percieves as being the home of officials who lie? No that would be poor rp for him to do.

And no i dont believe for a second that people can get around these bans with roleplay because i tried. The main reason why i pk'd bart was because it was no longer fun for me it was only fun for everyone else and thats not how it should work. No my chars were never bullies generally they dont care about people that keep to themselves they focus on people who put themselves out there.

If there wasnt this big fuss about bans people would just ban every threat and we'd still have no need of a town guard. If there is a bully char disrupting rp on a serious day to day basis that is a rule breaking matter which i believe was stated elsewhere

[Djironnyma]

Some people dont want to bend their roleplay to suit a leader they dislike especially if they are done wrong by the leader (or feel they had been done wrong)

Just because a option is offerd to you it dont mean its the only option you have, be creative and come up with own ideas solving a problem.

also as uhuru said its always a first choice before even attempting to talk to the char or settle things that way.

I know not a single case in which a ban was the first reaction.

The case of the current plot ig has little to do with the actual ban but the willful lying in the face of the law. That is what slander is. The character vern is an honorable type who never bends due to a steadfast dwarven nature. He would never admit to something he hasnt done and he takes accusations that are lies or half truth dead seriously and as attacks against him. Just as any knight would. So i ask what would be proper rp in this case? To bend just so he can enter a town he percieves as being the home of officials who lie? No that would be poor rp for him to do.

That are IG arguments, sry to be harsh but i -ooc- dont care about if vern is guilty or not its an ig act to protect other chars. It would only matter if you have done something wrong ooc, but then the punishment wouldnt be ig-wise. He have plenty of options to solve his problem about the ban, indeed if someone comes to you and tell you how to solve an issuse he will offer you ever a solution which fits more for himself as for you/your char.

And no i dont believe for a second that people can get around these bans with roleplay because i tried.

I aksed the Runewick GM, he knows nothing about. Anyway if you feel unfair threaten by a Staffmember plz speak with a CM or write gmabuse@illarion.org.

If there is a bully char disrupting rp on a serious day to day basis that is a rule breaking matter which i believe was stated elsewhere

Bulling/ghosting chars isnt forbidden for a bulling/evil/killing char as long as hes wellplayed. But just because its not forbidden, it means not that it improve the game if we have no way of regulate it ig.

[Kamilar]

I understood from the previous discussion that this feature was being worked on. I thought the plan was to have the guard NPCs patrolling and interacting with the banned character. I like that idea because on the surface it seems to satisfy both sides of the argument. There's no knowing until it's implemented, but in theory I still like this idea best.

I know I've said it before, but maybe it's worth repeating. Changing the accuracy of the banning NPCs from something other than 100% would be a short-term workaround that still satisfies in part the issues on both sides. That's no long term solution but what we have in place currently is rather stifling and this has the advantage of being a pretty simple fix while something better and more elaborate is being scripted.

The ooc knowledge that a banned character will not be able to pursue your character into town does have an affect on the RP interaction. The banning tools create bad feelings behind the screen and that's never good. Player driven content is what always made Illarion interesting to me and we lack that on many levels currently. I personally don't love interacting with the really toxic personalities in game because I have to do that all day IRL but I don't think I should be permitted game-wise to move a few tiles and stick my tongue out at them. This is what the auto-ban tool effectively does.