Roleplay and the fighting system

[Mephistopheles]

So, Personally I am growing to dislike everyone being able to see their levels and having to be a certain level to use such equipment and so on, I know the devs worked hard on it and it works very well. But is this what we want Illarion to grow into, everyone pg'ing to use the equipment they want to and then everyone using the same equipment. Some might say that the rate of pg'ers hasn't changed, but I think it has. SInce I've started playing the post-vbu with the shown levels, I have noticed a stronger desire to level up my character to max. Also on the fighting system, while the fact that it works very well I'm noticing that it just seems bland. People can judge another's skill fairly accurately by looking at their equipment and it the equipment seems rather boring to me, I loved it when the equipment each had different values and strengths and weaknesses.

I'd like to propose something that may take alot of work and is open for thought and discussion, I think some devs may not be happy with a change seeing as to how hard they worked on this current Fighting system. But I think it will be beneficial and more fun.

So first part is the easy one, get rid of the concrete level display, it indirectly kills rp by motivating some a bit too greatly to max out their skills.

Second I think we could get a test team to work with the devs by adjusting equipment values and returning to a time when you could use any weapon. (I volunteer to help as a tester if this is considered )

Third, with this said system in place I think it would be good to have the old item drop upon death though only dropping like two or three items at most, not dropping the char's whole bag and something on his person. This way there will be the chance to lose equipment in the wilderness and thus opening a equipment flow so things won't be overcrowded with such high level and high quality equipment. This would also encourage players not to walk around with their characters entire horde of wealth on their person.

So I don't think we would change the fighting system THAT dramatically as we should still have the different armor and weapon types. This I would think would bring back a bit of the old illa feel, not to mention it would do good for fighter roleplay and with any luck encourage more rp between everyone because they aren't seeing their levels all the time.

[Estralis Seborian]

The three points are basically rollbacks, right?

[Mephistopheles]

Kind of, I'd like to try and maybe rethink it a little bit so that it fits well into the current play.

At very least to make equipment varying and with no "ultimate builds" as it was before. And so that there is more opportunities to make a char look and feel like your own, instead of looking like every other warrior in heavy armor, or medium etc etc. But all in all besides some reworks it would be a rollback, yes.

[Mephistopheles]

On some counter arguments say "shouldn't players have an indication of what they can/can't fight according to their skill?" Well this idea is flawed anyway, because my maxed out warrior with a proper stat build can fight almost anything that uses piercing besides the lv 9 merinium golem, while someone else who is maxed but not having as good of stats as my warrior will probly die, then question "why do they say to fight these things at this skill level when I can't"

I think that there should maybe be some sort of general indicator as to where you are at skill-wise, just not the clear cut levels we have now. But if you are wondering what you can/can't fight I would suggest experimenting because every char is different. This is how I found out where/what I could and couldn't fight. Its hard work, but so is building a successful combat-base character.

[Jupiter]

1. The levels ensure equal chances. Do you want the status back where a small elitist group had advantages by ooc means? That can always happen, sure, but the current status weakens the effect a lot.

2. There was never a state where you could be the best fighter with any given armour set. We always had better or best weapons. I'd rather see poison, magic and fire weapons and stuff like this, so that you can decide if you go for the fire dagger or the merinium dagger etc

3. I also think that death is not a real threat. However, dropping items pisses players off. It is kinda crappy if you loose your favourite sword by some stupid mistake (maybe a small lag, or you just didn't saw the archer waiting at the other end of the road when running from wolves away). More sever death consequences? Yes. But please in an appropriate way.
Maybe something like an insurance: You can go to a Cherga temple and pay some coins to protect an item. On death, you will not loose that item. The insurance ends, when you actually would loose the item on death. Then, you have to renew it.

[Mephistopheles]

On point 1. Im not quite understanding, how this will change anything? I personally tell alot of people what I know of fighting ig and many other players also help people out, if its about the understanding of how the game works how does clear cut levels help?

On point 2. I know the magic weapons will always be better, however how this system works is that 100 lv weapons are the best and if someone likes a magic serinjah sword better than a magic broadsword then they can either use the serinjah and not be as strong as the one with the broadsword, or give up what they want for the favor of the stronger weapon. Also poison weapons and fire weapons (besides the broadsword) are lower and thus not as attractive. Basically what I hope is that either there will be many more lv 100 weapons/ armor created for roleplay purposes, or change it so that weapons/armor can be used and they each have their own values that may not differ as much as they do now. like poisoned and magic weapons being fairly even in their values.

Point 3. is a good idea.

[Velisai]

The insurance thing has been proposed years before the vbu and everyone seemed to like it back then. I guess PC drops on death coupled with this were not implemented for simplicity reasons? It would be an effective money sink and make people less careless about death anyway. I still like it.

[Gina South]

The insurance thing has been proposed years before the vbu and everyone seemed to like it back then. I guess PC drops on death coupled with this were not implemented for simplicity reasons? It would be an effective money sink and make people less careless about death anyway. I still like it.

I agree.. going to the cross has little consequence at this time.. however being able to pray (get insurance) on your special Items is a great thought. As well having a toggle so you do not accidently sell favorite items would be a great idea. As well has some skill loss been considered?? Again to make death more deadly...

[Estralis Seborian]

Seriously, players propose to bring back item drops and skill loss upon death?

[Velisai]

We've had skill loss before the VBU and it was dropped because it was too frustrating for many. With the way the current system works I'd say it would be a million times worse now than pre VBU.

[Jupiter]

Skill loss is a bit harsh, in my opinion. The item loss with the possibility to avoid it by paying insurance seems okay.

[GolfLima]

* "permanent" Skill loss is realy fustrating if you have mastered a craft - as higher you´re experiance is as more fustrating is a loss of knowledge (for crafters, dont know if this is also the same for fighters)
* skill loss for a time period? (dont know if this is possible)
* insurance for special things is a good idea (and a good money sink)
* increased repair costs?

- long time ago i have seen a rp-fight between char ...

[Mephistopheles]

I would not vote for a skill loss, no. and if item drop does happen to be reimplemented I do not think it should be as severe as before. Before a player would drop his/her bag and one item on his/her person or belt, I would say that only dropping one or two items upon death is fine. and again the insurance thing is a good idea. Maybe this and some other ideas could replace the damaging on death. These are all ideas to be considered.

[Achae Eanstray]

1. I really hope we don't fall back to the "elitist" knowing what to do in order to skill. Though my chars don't push to skill, I like to know they are headed in the right direction so would hope not on the first point.

2. I would like more options then one weapon for one level/skill area and think making more for each level is pretty redundant. Returning to being able to use all weapons however would make the use of weapons less interesting for the crafters to make and the fighters to strive for. Therefore I would like if can be scripted, a 30 point difference in the use of weapons rather then 10 point as we have at present. This provides the variety yet still keeps the idea of raising skill important.

3. Don't fall back to pre-VBU in either perm skill loss or even dropped weapon and armor. Let's give something to players rather then proposals to remove. If there is insurance, allow this to be against repair costs i.e. if a weapon or armor is insured, the reduction in wear, tear and the damage from monsters could be reduced by half. Some may decide insurance will help for those with high end items, some may decide to use the repair and fore-go insurance.

Adding another money sink like insurance shouldn't be at the expense of removing something positive the VBU has handed to us i.e. no loss of skill/items upon ghosting.

[Velisai]

1. I really hope we don't fall back to the "elitist" knowing what to do in order to skill. Though my chars don't push to skill, I like to know they are headed in the right direction so would hope not on the first point.

How do you know you are headed in the right direction?

I used to know, because there was a bar showing the progress to the next level. If it expanded, I knew my actions were going to be rewarded eventually. Knowing your exact skill level has only become important since the VBU, as before you could skill up from 0 to 100 with the same item set.

Those progress bars were a good thing and I'd love to have them back.

[Mephistopheles]

To go back, I was hoping that not having the level display, and items drops on death would both come together to balance out the old weapon/armor system.

Another alternative that may be easier and wouldn't require any rollbacks, I think simply more weapons and armor would help with fighter roleplay, I'd like to see maybe more poison weapons (down the road obviously when poisoning comes back) in the level 100 bracket, and some more options in not just slashing but blunt and stabbing as well. The Armors would be the next important thing. Really we just want to make our characters our own.

Currently I'm reading lua and listening to folks in irc the going is slow as I'm as dumb as an orc with this stuff, but eventually I may be able to help lol

[Gina South]

Just a thought about visits to the cross. I agree loss of skill is harsh.. and loosing your bag is also something I would not like to happen to me, but to make going to the cross more deadly how about this:

Make it so weapons and armour can not be repaired... As armour/weapons are damaged due to visits to the cross.. gems can be removed and put in a new weapon, so not loosing those very hard to replace gems, as they can be removed from the breaking weapon. It may be a thought that weapons and armour damage due to usage be reduced, so making trips to the cross have a more serious consequence as damage due to visits would stay the same as it is now.

This also helps the smiths and weapon makers who can not sell any weapons or new armour to players as they already have them.

If there was a special item that you never wanted damaged. then you could purchase insurance.. and the damage would not go on it... Perhaps limiting the number of items you can buy insurance on..

[Alessaina]

Since it seems this thread has trailed off, please create a mantis task with all the ideas presented. This topic is locked.