Lyrenzia dosent want your Opinions

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sat May 17, 2003 8:16 pm

Lennier wrote:It`s very interesting to see, that a representative of Lyrenzia started this useless petition against a resolution of Lyrenzia.

Crosis, do you can not stay for your foundation( You are a member!), because only a decsion is maked against your own opinion?

Get the majority of Lyrenzia behind your opinion or accept that not everything will happen how do you want.

But stop your "petitions and attacks" against the authority or Lyrenzia!

That explains everything right there. A member of Lyrenzia almost flat out saying that your opinion does not matter. Crosis is a respectable person who was getting his idea and opinion out into the public, and it went against the 'resolution'(whatever you want to call it), and these are the comments that he gets. Giving your opinion is now considered an "attack" against their 'authority'! They have no authority and the peoples opinions are apparently not wanted. They consider themselves to have a democratic way, but there isnt anything of the kind found, they are liars, fools, and everyone is better off without. He was getting doing a peaceful thing, with many who supported what he said, and this is what is said, it is ridiculous, their contradict themselves all the time and it is disguisting what has happened. Many have made comments like this and I found this to be the best example, suggesting that everyone stays quiet after they have made a 'decision'. They are absolutists in disguise!

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sat May 17, 2003 8:27 pm

This is not true. But the idea of a council is that ideas are proposed, discussed, and decided. And not that the one who lost the voting then starts petitions to get his opinion with force. This the behaviour of a child and not that of a councillor.

Adano Eles

Knight of the Grey Rose
Student of the Khana Len; Apprentice of the Great Temple of the Five and Eleven

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Sun May 18, 2003 12:22 am

A council put in power by who?
This "council" went on about, being for the people, but I saw no public notification that a wall had been built, untill after it had been built.

Lyrienza has started making decisions with out the consultation of the genral public, that is no council, that is, a dictatorship not democracy Lyrienza suddenly appeared one day, and declared itself a government with out telling anyone, the guilds joined together, and then told people that they are their government. A council put in power by themselves and who make decisions about our town, not their town with out consulting anyone other than themsleves. They do not care for the opinion of others.

Adano, yourcouncil built walls without talking to the genral public, that means it is not their council but yourcouncil, who don't care about the other citizens of this town!

Moathia
Priestess of Elara

Edit ooc by GMcFly

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sun May 18, 2003 1:13 am

and declared itself a government with out telling anyone

Actually, Priestess of Elara, we did not.
Only people who have been declaring Lyrenzia a governement, are you, Cain Freemont, and some others who seem to bear a grudge against Lyrenzia.

our town, not their town

This town is ours aswell as it is yours. What are you talking abouy? Most of the people in Lyrenzia have been living in the town for ages, longer than you or most of the current ihabitants anyways.

They do not care for the opinion of others.

Good to see that you keep on the stable line of nonsense, dear Moathia.
If we simply would not care, why would we bother to answer anyway?

Nothing is perfect, and constructive feedback will be always concidered, talked through and implemented if we have the possibility.

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Sun May 18, 2003 1:19 am

Moathia, do ye even know what a council is?
It is a gathering of representatives who well... represent the people.
The reason there are councils is becuase asking the opinion of every single person in a given place is just not feasible. Besides, you say the council ignores the people? Well then, go ahead and elect someone to the council who shares your views...

The only reason you see yourselves as powerless against your imaginative demonic view of lyrenzia is simply because you are too dumb to see what lyrenzia is. It is not just some people who proclaimed themselves rulers of all... it is a coalition of all the major guilds of trollsbane, aswell as some individuals. The members of all the guilds alone are a very significant part of the entire population of our fair isle, but that has ofcourse never even crossed your minhd, im sure.

Even if you thought that everysingle one of the ancient and revered guilds are evil and out to rob you of your view of what freedom is, you still fail to see the obvious point that you can elect other people into the council to represent you.

Please, before you cover yourself in ridicule with any further ignorant postings, take the time to find out what the hell lyrenzia is before you start attacking it.

Xaveria · Post by **Xaveria** » Sun May 18, 2003 1:58 am

Dear Moathia

as a Priestess of Elara you should be so wise to know what a council is like.

But in my opion a Priestress fo Elara is standig in behind, watching and give wise advices to the peoples.

And as a Priestress you should have to know how the council works.

Xaveria
Duchess of Aquitanien
Knight of the grey Rose
Servant of Sirani

Bingem Durthrotgar · Post by **Bingem Durthrotgar** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:09 am

Adano Eles why do you think your better than everyone else? huh why?

Viola Thistle · Post by **Viola Thistle** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:15 am

Mishrack wrote:Moathia, do ye even know what a council is?
It is a gathering of representatives who well... represent the people.
The reason there are councils is becuase asking the opinion of every single person in a given place is just not feasible.

Was this wall put up for a vote before the council members at all?

viola

Seth Valor · Post by **Seth Valor** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:27 am

Bingem Durthrotgar, You are new here, So, lets get one thing straight. You know nothing of Adano, So, you have no right to say that he thinks he is better than everyone else, becuase he doesnt think that. He simply tries to answer questions that other people ask.

Bingem Durthrotgar · Post by **Bingem Durthrotgar** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:29 am

Bingem Shows Seth his axe than grins and walks off

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:30 am

This is anything but a council. Why were none of the citizens of Trolls Bane told about this government being made? It literally happened overnight.

Secondly to prove this is not a council, why was there no voting about the wall? This wall will not protect us, do not feel false safety, the walls will do nothing but limit the chances of us escaping from Trolls bane if it falls.

Am I the only one that noticed, right after the monsters tried to invade the walls were built? Isn't it convenient that the walls were built when we would need them the most? What if the Lyrenzia foundation were the ones behind all the missing monsters? What if they made the army of monsters just so people would think Lyrenzia helped them when we needed Lyrenzia the most.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:32 am

Moathia,
As a Priestess of Elara, law, order, justice should be things you welcome...not something you turn away. Lyrenzia is an establishment of precisely law, order, and justice...also you should know that a Council works within...what Crosis did was as was already said quite childish...in taking Council matters public and actually making it a "Petition". Do try to look to Elara for the True Wise Way...a wise thing to remember would be to "think before you speak".
May Elara shower you with Wisdom,
~Elaralith, Priestess of Elara~

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:35 am

Elararith, you have absoluetly no reason to try and act higher then Moathia. Elararith, you yesterday, wanted to kill Zerbus so badly. You yesterday were not a priestess of Elara, and you weren't a follower either. You were out for blood and should not at all preach to Moathia about what Elara would want, because you do not do what Elara wants.

Bingem Durthrotgar · Post by **Bingem Durthrotgar** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:36 am

Hey Elaralith I heard you went nuts one day and went on a casting spree and hurt people thats sounds a little childish and the Elders of Eldamar didnt want nothen to do with yea? I thought you were suppose to be the wise one.

May Elara bless you with brains

Bingem Durthrotgar · Post by **Bingem Durthrotgar** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:38 am

I am Orc and I still have more sence than you

Walks off laughing

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:39 am

To Grant Herion
OR, what if you hid them (the monsters) and are currently planning a evil scheme of taking over the world?

Isn't that convinient that they disappeared just when you started to proceed with your planning. Hell, if you don't need any facts to ramble nonsense and start to throw in some crazed conspiracy theories, why would I need either? Oh no! Did I just place you under suspect of something that I have absolutely no proof of? Just my biased and bitter assumptions? Tought luck isn't it? If you can do it, I sure hell can do so too.

With your logic, the possibilities of self-humiliation are endless.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:40 am

Before you make judgments you should always know the whole story. Both of you obviously don't know half of what really happened, which makes your words worthless. I do hope you won't make faulty pronouncements from not knowing anything and make yourselves look the fools in the future.

Bingem Durthrotgar · Post by **Bingem Durthrotgar** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:44 am

Who acts more like a fool this is what you wrote somewhere else

Elaralith wrote:Fooser has gotten himself in trouble many times with Lyrenzia...
So Malinne according to you he IS an imbecile.

here the responce that you got

Cain Freemont wrote:How would you know, first off, Elaralith? You wouldn't. Secondly, Lyrenzia hasn't been around long enough for Fooser to get into trouble with them several times. So I think you need to take your pointless words elsewhere.

Malinne wrote:Just shut up Elaralith. I'm sick of hearing your words. Lyrenzia has not been around for that long and there have only been... seven trials? Is Fooser one of the accused and guilty in all of them? Hmm...

You are the imbecile, for different reasons, but an imbecile nonetheless. You talk as if you know everything, and it is fact that you don't know more than the average citizen.

who acts like a fool now? huh who? yea you!!!

Fieps · Post by **Fieps** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:59 am

No no no, not all arguments again.

Grant Herion all your facts were answered recently. Lyrenzia is not a kind of government, maybe it could be one in the future, but these days represent Lyrenzia neither an administration, more a kind of alliance.
And why the public weren´t involved in the plans has the reason in what you do all now. We say "talking to death" to it, and that should prohibited in the beginning from the whole Lyrenzia concept.

I predicted in one letter not so far away, that one dumb brainless person will come and mean that Lyrenzia caused that all monsters had disappeared, i think it´s unnecessary to say more to this phantasm.

Folks, please finally learn how to read. The most of all questions were already answered, so why do you ask again? We all have not the energy to reply again and again to the same facts, because we all can´t say new things, all what we can do is to repeat us. And i think nobody has the delight to do this. It nerves and argue us and make all of you laughable, if you come allways again with the same comments.

_____________________
Fieps

Ellaron · Post by **Ellaron** » Sun May 18, 2003 3:25 am

I have little to write but will write it any way.

I am a little shocked at how many personal insults are flying from one camp to the other, and back again, like so many poisoned arrows. These insults do no credit to you nor do they further the argument. All insults tend to do is inflame the blood and shrink the mind.

If you tire of saying the same things over and over in reply to a question then consider that you might not be being understood. Try saying it a different way. Try to answer the question as simply as you can. Not all of us, on both sides, are as learned as some of you.

Seth Valor · Post by **Seth Valor** » Sun May 18, 2003 4:10 am

Bingem Durthrotgar, You best not be threatening me! Anyhow, you are very new here, and i suggest you quit critizicing and threatening people!

Bingem Durthrotgar · Post by **Bingem Durthrotgar** » Sun May 18, 2003 4:11 am

who said i was threatning??? hmm I just showed you my axe to see the fine craftmen-ship. your too sensitive.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun May 18, 2003 5:55 am

I haven't taken the time to read all the mindless bickering mixed with the constructed statements, so ill just state my opinion.

The public was not warned nor even informed about the wall before the wall on the construction began. I think this was the wrong thing to do. One other thing i seemed to have noticed, not all lyrenzia councilers agree on something yet, they do it despite the best interest of a counciler. I think it should be mandatory that ALL lyrenzia councilers agree.

~~Avrillon~~

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Sun May 18, 2003 6:10 am

The bottom line is, Troll's Bane, acctually the whole island is an anarchy so in theory you can do whatever you want however, a group of people got together and decided what they think is right and enforce those morals. Since the island is in a state of anarchy, they can do this, although it probably isn't as desireable as other means.

I have a suggestion, if you don't like what is going on in Lyrenzia, perhaps you should run for a position as a council member during the elections, if they do happen.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Sun May 18, 2003 6:12 am

Let me explain the wall situation again. A member of Lyrenzia contacted several builders as we were pondering about walls, to see about their feasibility. Unfortunately, the construction workers thought it might be a good idea to show what they could do, without telling anyone. Do not believe that any member of Lyrenzia ordered the construction of the walls.

By all means continue giving us your useful criticism. Although you may not believe it, most of the Lyrenzia councilors aim to please the public, not please their own whims.

Malinne · Post by **Malinne** » Sun May 18, 2003 6:54 am

I decided to skip a lot of the reading because I'm not expecting to find much. Some of us may believe we are all better off without Lyrenzia. I'm one of them.

Lyrenzia may not want our opinions but they're going to get them anyway. They know this and have proven to have open ears if not open minds.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun May 18, 2003 6:56 am

Maybe you could make a set of blueprints showing what peices of the wall will go where. This way we could see where would be best suited for everyone yet still battle effective. ((anyone have the full minimap? i think this would be useful, just color in the places where the wall is being placed))

~~Avrillon~~

Caranthir the great · Sun May 18, 2003 11:48 am

To Ellaron and few others:
What is insult, really? I was just showing Grant, that the door swings both ways.

To Grobul,
Everyone will not be happy, ever. Thats impossibility. Period.
Especially when some people complain not because they would have something to say, but because they have a unbelievable grudge against Lyrenzia.

To Malinne
We want constructive opinions, not 'Lyrenzia is evil, I bet they -insert nonsense- and -insert more nonsense-, those damn bastards!'

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Sun May 18, 2003 12:27 pm

Crosis did was as was already said quite childish...in taking Council matters public and actually making it a "Petition"

So the council are unrelated to the public? So how are they representing the public? He took the matter to the public, which Lyrenzia should have done, but Lyrenzia threw it in his face calling it an attack.

If you dont want to represent the public, dont act under their name.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Sun May 18, 2003 1:05 pm

At Fooser:

Maybe my english isn`t good enough. Therefore i will continue to write in german. If you and others want to know, what i want to say, find a good translater.

Lennier wrote:It`s very interesting to see, that a representative of Lyrenzia started this useless petition against a resolution of Lyrenzia.

Crosis, do you can not stay for your foundation( You are a member!), because only a decsion is maked against your own opinion?

Get the majority of Lyrenzia behind your opinion or accept that not everything will happen how do you want.

But stop your "petitions and attacks" against the authority or Lyrenzia!

Im Grunde hat es Adano schon gesagt gehabt. Die ersten Mitglieder des Lyrenzia-Rates waren sich einig eine Stadtmauer zu bauen und haben es als ihr 1. grosses Ziel angesehen, so die Stadt und ihre Bürger zu unterstützen. Wie auch immer dieser Beschluss gefasst wurde, er ist bindend für alle Mitglieder der Lyrenzia. So wie das Ergebnis jeder anderen Abstimmung/Diskussion auch, kann man seine Meinung sagen und versuchen diese innerhalb Lyrenzias durchzusetzen. Gelingt dies nicht, so hat man sich dennoch an den Beschlüssen der Vereinigung zu halten, in der man ja Mitglied ist.
Die Autorität die also Lyrenzia inne hat, ist die gegenüber ihren Mitgliedern.

Crosis ist in Lyrenzia der Vertreter seiner Gruppe (Hobbiteers/The Evergreen Halflings) und Vertreter der Lyrenzia ansich. Von daher hätte er, meiner Meinung nach, versuchen können das Projekt "Stadtmauer" innerhalb einer Diskussion in Lyrenzia zu kippen. Aber, es ist meiner Meinung nach der falschen Weg gewesen, nachdem die eigene Position in Lyrenzia nicht durchgesetzt werden konnte, eine unsinnige Petition in der Öffentlichkeit zu beginnen, die gegen den Beschluss der Lyrenzia gerichtet ist. Als Repräsentant Lyrenzias hat er nach aussen hin die Meinung der Vereinigung zu vertreten, nicht seine eigene, die der Position Lyrenzias entgegengestellt sein könnte.

Das ist eigentlich das, was ich sagen wollte....

Lennier,
noble knight and trademaster of the Grey Rose,
member of the SMACC Council.