Roleplay Do's and Don't(s)

[Achae Eanstray]

This is an ongoing thread that WITHOUT naming any char or player you wish not to see or to see more of in game using what you consider "good" or "not good" roleplay guidelines. It would also help to back your post by links to articles and other posts regarding what is right in a roleplay setting. This is something people can read over and decide for themselves if they agree or not however...not something "set in stone" as a must or must not do in game.

Question: Have you seen some bit of roleplay in game or maybe another game that makes you cringe to see.. or maybe a roleplay that is surprisingly good that you would like to comment on.

1. I personally cringe at too much ooc except a "bye" or something absolutely necessary.

2. The one word ctrl/click i.e. "Hits" is terrible roleplay IMO and may be against the rules if not left the other player enough time to react.

3. Don't assume my char will react to anything...and please don't ask me ooc for my char to react unless you think I as a player may have missed something. It could just be when your char does something.. my char does NOT want to "be hit" or "fall back" or whatever. All this is left to the player to decide which is why I usually put "assumes or tries" unless it is a player I know well and know they will be fine with whatever.

4. An emote is NOT something you think.. an emote is something your char does that can't be shown with the graphic in game. Your char can not "think" but CAN "appears thoughtful" however I like to be even more specific because sometimes even "appears thoughtful" can have someone wondering exactly what that appearance is

5. I find the best roleplay is one that no matter what theirs is, they take the time to follow through on what your char says. frequently I have then gone back to their original. Yeah to those that are open enough to change their agenda in game. It IS appreciated.

I am sure there are more generalizations to help those trying to get a grip on their roleplay. Remember some may be ideas that are not agreed on by all. If you are unsure of your own roleplay.. simply ask someone you roleplay with a lot and see what they say.

[Zehshirr]

I really don't like sitting somewhere with someone else, when another character logs in and the person I'm sitting with just asumes they are "waking up". I also, obviously, dislike it when someone does that when I log on. I want to emote that I've come from else where, and I just look like a jerk if I go #me actually does NOT wake up on the chair, but walks up from the other side of the street.

(I admit I also do this sometimes) It also irks me if someone says "I'm strong", everyone automatically assumes they mean "I can fight". Although that is usually what they mean. The fact it, there is a difference between being strong, and being able to skillfully gut someone and hang their entrails on your wall with a knife.

tl;dr : Too bad. Yes, I AM looking at you (please no char or forum names)

[rakust dorenstkzul]

DON'T PLAY A MARY SUE

[Valen Tiercelion]

Why not? Mary Sue is a valid archetype, and archetypes make captivating stories by virtue of literally being larger than life.

Just off the top of my head, others include:

The Wise Old Man aka Merlin, grandfather figure, usually acts to guide a developing hero
the Child: Aang in the Avatar, Harry Potter, almost every hero in development
the Shadow: Sparrowhawk/Ged's shadow in a Wizard of Earthsea, the hobgoblin or dark side of the hero, which he or she must come to terms with ala Luke and Darth Vader or Frodo and Gollum
The Maiden: object of every hero's affections, represents all that is precious and beautiful in the world, the goal
the Big Guy: as the name suggests a hulking, muscleman, who often dies saving the hero

[TiaSarah]

I love it when people actually RP an injury. IMO it makes little sense to be injured badly enough to be sent to the cross, and be up doing hard physical labor (like grinding grain or cutting down trees) within a few minutes. It's much nicer to see people take some time IG to wear bandages, walk with a staff, etc. Just because your char is no longer seeing red does not mean it makes sense for them to act like nothing happened. Plus, being cared for by a medico (or just a concerned bystander) can be great RP!

[rakust dorenstkzul]

Why not? Mary Sue is a valid archetype,

#me is a 7 foot tall elf, he has robes made of spun gold, with pictures of dragons all over in gemstones. Every time he speaks you can hear the sounds of angels singing, his is incredibly handsome, so much so you question your sexuality, he has a large tribal tattoo over his face, which does not in anyway make him look like a douchebag. "Hello" he speaks "My name is blackraven godwolf." he draws a lrge sword, a two hander for anyone else, and slams it into the ground, through several inches of stone. "I'm half demon, half elf, half fox! I'm here to make friends and have fun!"

[/long#me]

[Valen Tiercelion]

Sounds like a good character for an acting troupe.

Anyways, as far as I understand a Mary Sue is a happy go lucky sort, which would certainly be a welcome change from the doom and gloom types for most.


Thanks Grokk, the wiki section titled Criticism for that link is helpful.
As explained, Mary Sue is certainly a viable character, and there's no call to put down characters just because you personally don't like them.

[Grokk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

[rakust dorenstkzul]

there's no call to put down characters just because you personally don't like them.

You and I are very different people.

[PurpleMonkeys]

Let your character lose sometimes. It sucks when you're, say, in an RP fight, and the guy is always going "#me block the attack." "#me dodges skillfully" Hell, even if you have teh uber skillz, people can mess up or get caught off guard.

[Thargon]

If by some unlucky chance the game bugs and you die without knowing and lose valuable gear then its Story time not QQ time ((points the stick at himself)) be creative it may not happen in real life but the Rp with it can be amusing for others

[Grokk]

As explained, Mary Sue is certainly a viable character, and there's no call to put down characters just because you personally don't like them.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with the discussion of archetypes. The fact that a character adheres to an archetype has very little bearing upon whether it is any good or not. Sure, some archetypes lend themselves well to captivating stories. But some do not. There is no necessary connection. Archetypal characters need depth to be interesting, just like any other character. Mary Sues lack depth.

Mary Sue is certainly not a viable character in Illarion. An online multiplayer roleplaying situation is just about the worst medium possible for such a character. When they are created for the purposes of fan fiction or a novel, a Mary Sue is relatively harmless. All that results is poor piece of writing, with a character that no one other than the author is able to get emotionally invested in. Besides wasting their time, other people aren't really being affected. This isn't the case when a Mary Sue is created for a game like Illarion. You are no longer the only author. You no longer get to decide how other characters react to yours, which in itself ought to make playing a Mary Sue practically impossible. A Mary Sue character needs the constant spotlight, and they can't get it in a game with numerous other independently controlled characters.

A Mary Sue is a "perfect" character. They rarely have any flaws whatsoever. Those flaws that they do possess are of no meaningful consequence. Mary Sue's win all the time. Losing is not an option. They never make mistakes. They overshadow other characters. They don't undergo any sort of change or development throughout the course of a story. They break the immersion of the game. They aren't at all realistic. They have no depth. There is nothing interesting about them. People will actively avoid roleplaying with the player of a Mary Sue. In the end, it isn't fun for the person playing the character or those who are (not) interacting with it.

What about when multiple people start playing Mary Sues (or, indeed, any "larger than life" types)? "Perfect" becomes the norm. If you want an example of just how absurd this is, take a look at the average inhabitant of Gobaith (especially those that are human). Everyone is incredibly attractive. It is ridiculous. There is barely a realistic standard to hold them to. When everyone is larger than life, no one is.

There is a reason that "Mary Sue" is used as an insult. A Mary Sue is not a good character. If people want to improve their roleplay, they shouldn't play one.

[Valen Tiercelion]

I strongly disagree.

An idealistic character has every bit the place that a more "down to earth" character might have. Elves and dwarves is a good example of this. Much of fantasy storytelling revolves around the clash and contrast between the two precisely because elves represent all that is ideal or even perfect from a human standpoint while dwarves would be the opposite. Being short, hairy, crude, and rude are stereotypes of the blue collar class in our world, and who better than dwarves to play this role? They are even excellent craftsmen for crying out loud .
As for elves, things like height, stylishness, and grace have always been in vogue, and still are. Have you taken a look at the catwalk lately?

But both are necessary and vital because together they form the dichotomy against which the world compares itself.
You don't have light without darkness, there's no good without evil, and definitely no blue collar without white collar.

Having both is essential for a diverse and interesting world, and for the purposes of a roleplaying game I would say the greater the contrast the better. When you have contrast you will more likely have conflict, which as many have already said has made for their most exciting and intense experiences. These are the experiences everyone hopes to have more of, plays for, and even logs on for. A higher frequency of them would lead to a higher amount of active players. The key is contrast.

Illarion isn't the real world, and it shouldn't be. The real world can be mundane, and don't we all sometimes want to escape to something more vivid, more colorful? Here there is room for Mary Sues and yes even Anti-Sues haha because roleplaying is about drama. Every character is already in the spotlight. Even the one's that don't seem to say or do much are making an impact just by virtue of being present. They provide great contrast for the more extroverted characters and vice versa. There really is room for all, and if we will appreciate the other too, that will make all the difference.

You and I are very different people.

Oh, I'm sure. Do you play a dwarf by any chance?

And Grokk:
I wouldn't be so quick to judge another player's role-play. What you are unable or perhaps unwilling to appreciate, another may find tremendously fulfilling.

There are no Mary Sues in the derogatory sense. Only characters representing varying aspects of the personality spectrum.

[Jupiter]

Adaption. Got out of hand many times in the past.

[Qeewee]

Mary Sue, horrible characters, horrible roleplay, most of the time horrible players.

[Achae Eanstray]

I think we have established that most players tend to think of a "Mary Sue" as not a viable roleplay character. Considering what I have read in the wiki i.e.

Today "Mary Sue" carries a connotation of wish-fulfillment and is commonly associated with self-insertion (the writing of oneself into a fictional story). True self-insertion is a literal and generally undisguised representation of the author; most characters described as "Mary Sues" are not, though they are often called "proxies"[4] for the author. The negative connotation comes from this "wish-fulfillment" implication: the "Mary Sue" is judged a poorly developed character, too perfect and lacking in realism to be interesting. Such proxy characters, critics claim, exist only because authors wish to see themselves as the "special" character in question.

Would go against the general roleplay of keeping the player separate from their character. The interpretation of one "idealistic" part of the "Mary Sue" description and saying chars are not well roleplayed if too idealistic may be causing different interpretations. I really don't recall this "Mary Sue" when I started roleplaying but there have been characters too "true to life" Now there are plenty of characters on Illa with scars, wounds, older etc. that I have seen. None of these are too much or unrealistic for a fantasy medieval game. Following the rules of the game, this is why not everything like vampires or werewolves are allowed in the game and certain things require asking a GM first.

Does anyone else have some Do's and Don't(s) of roleplay they wish to mention?

[Grokk]

Having both is essential for a diverse and interesting world, and for the purposes of a roleplaying game I would say the greater the contrast the better. When you have contrast you will more likely have conflict, which as many have already said has made for their most exciting and intense experiences. These are the experiences everyone hopes to have more of, plays for, and even logs on for. A higher frequency of them would lead to a higher amount of active players. The key is contrast.

Not when the contrast is between good roleplay and shit roleplay.

A Mary Sue is necessarily a poorly written character. This is a thread designed to help people improve their roleplay, and I think any other discussion of Mary Sue can be done on another thread. Thank you! Achae

[rakust dorenstkzul]

If you play a lizard, they're not scaly humans that talk like snakes.

[Valen Tiercelion]

What's the point of this if we're just going to be stating the obvious?

Qeewee, it's a good thing for there to be idealistic characters. Just as it's a good thing that there are more pragmatic ones as well.

[Zehshirr]

There's a difference between being idealistic and being insanely incapable of fear. I can't stand when someone, at threat of death (With a sword at their throat, etc) says something along the lines of, "I'll get you for this." HOW will you get me for this if you die? Sure, you come back to life at the cross, but as I understand it, characters don't actually "die" when they go to the cross. Otherwise, permadeath would simply make no sense.

If I see a pig randomly roaming the streets of Bane, I kill it. Same with a bunny. And most other people would as well. Yet the second there's a name floating above the animal, everyone becomes hippie, tree hugging vegetarians who refuse to let anyone kill said animal. That's something called metagaming. Yes, it's not nice that I want to attack their character. But guess what? It's a freaking pig. No, I wont just ghost it, I'll rp attacking it, probably not even end up ghosting it anyway, depending on how the player at the other end reacts. (This also goes for running into transformed demons, etc.)

Last thing for now, just because your character has "teh uber skills" does not mean that, if someone has (excuse the same example) a sword to your throat, you can just suddenly spin around and start attacking as if you can magically move away. The only way you'd get away would be moving back, which would cut the bottom of your chin anyway, while providing enough time to slit your throat, or to "jump up". Realistically, very few people can jump that high, good sword fighter or not. To be honest, this is the one part where a lot of "mage players" have it alot easier, as they could tele away without getting hurt. No, that's not a jab at mage players, I'm saying that's what you probably should, and usually do (in my experience), do.

[themonk]

Let your character lose sometimes. It sucks when you're, say, in an RP fight, and the guy is always going "#me block the attack." "#me dodges skillfully" Hell, even if you have teh uber skillz, people can mess up or get caught off guard.

I completely agree with that. It gets very childish someimes like when i played army as a kid and pretended to shoot my mate and he'd go "nah i put a land mine there so ya leg blew off before you shot me" then i went " no im wearing blast proof armor so i got you" he then says "im wearing a bullet proof vest" i go "ya i shot you in the head" Only to be told he has Jedi reflexes and moved out the way! Then we just ended up scrapping for real.

Cut a long story short people are more likable if they submit once in a while for the sake of good RP. Noone likes a Mr perfect.

[Hew Keenaxe]

Read first post.. no char or forum name, if you have a specific problem talk to the GM-Achae
A RP event leads to a very sudden ghosting, and no follow up.And little notice on the ghosting, even If Some had been given, the time between the notice and the ghosting was a few seconds, no time to even react. But this was at the hospital, was only to be RP. Bad acting I think. You judge.

[Grokk]

Unfortunate that your post will be deleted. It is the only one in this entire thread that might actually help improve someone's roleplay.

Blade being raised to friend's throat. Attack person holding the sword, with no regard for friend's safety, without giving PO friend an option to respond, and without giving any warning to other PO. Welcome to Illarion.

[Hew Keenaxe]

And was deleted again!
And will always be
Because I dare to speak out against this governing.
Have already been told that this is it for me if I dont just jump in line.
Beware, Fellow Illarions! This game is ours, all dozen of us. I play regularly, few do, but counting me, and my multiple characters, that makes too few to keep a game. So she hates my comment, so what? it is real, it is needed. To ban me for speaking, clean, no curse words or damaging remarks? I have a word for that, but won't use it unless provoked.

[Djironnyma]

This game is property of the illarion society, its neigther yours nor one other players. You are still allowed to play, but if you play or not doesnt matter.

[Hew Keenaxe]

It does matter, Right now we average 8 players an hour, we need all we can get. you dont chase off your die hards because you dont like what they say.

[Djironnyma]

The Server works with power, not with players.

Currently all devs and GMs of Illarion work for the VBU. The Lack of manpower supporting the current version of the game is the reason why we have a so less number of players. Anyone know and accept that, because the VBU is more important as the current state of illarion.

Anyway i lock this topic until this eve to give a chance to calm down.

[Hew Keenaxe]

It does matter what the populace thinks.
If this game is to be heavily governed, then all will flee.
That said,
RP, is and should be, taken slowly.
Allow a short time for your conversant to respond.
We all have different connections, different abilities.
You can always control/click a moment later and still feel like a stud.
But in the interest of this game, wait one moment and let your fellow PO, have a chance to respond.
True, he may then show bad RP and control/click you. Be the bigger man.
Give a PO the chance. This is a co-operative RP game, not a "I am faster than you" shooter game.

[Hew Keenaxe]

After some discussions with other players, I have come back with this...
"If you dont want to be ghosted, dont RP in an aggressive way." Even though I never struck anyone, even though I planned to continue in a strictly RP way, unless pushed to do different, even though I wouldn't of ghosted anyone, and havent for over a year.
So i have concluded that Strictly RP is out, and game engine is in.
Time to make ghosts.
Is this a bad RP formula? Yes, But it seems to be how this game is played now.
Enjoy.
I just might.

[Oxi]

As the PO of the lucky leader of Troll’s Bane who has had numerous threats, attacks, and a number of ghostings. Quite frankly I would expect nothing else – those of you that know his past would agree he isn’t the archetypal leader so it is quite reasonable to suppose he is a weak and easy target and with so many power hungry characters around there is sure to be conflict… a good starting point for some well-crafted role play you might say?

Well sometimes yes - and I have experienced some really excellent, powerful role play from both attacking parties and allies… so big thanks!

We all know there are problems as well though, so I’m not denying there have also been examples of appalling role play and sadly sometimes ooc driven behaviour.

Achae started a really useful topic here though – so how about we try using it as it was intended.


When my character is verbally or physically attacked I do like there to be a reason… I may not fully understand it but I expect it to be there and I expect it to be realistic. It may be an unknown assassin hired to kill but then I will most likely know my character has upset someone or been threatened recently. I despair when characters just look for trouble, even to the point of violence, with no good reason (I can only assume their player is bored). If you want to bring some conflict into the game for a bit of excitement take your time to build a proper story don’t just start spouting snippets you have seen on the forum or heard in game – you need a reason your character is even bothered in the first place, then you will be taken seriously.

I guess I also hope players have a realistic expectation of consequences and are prepared to accept those for their character. With Troll’s Bane we rightly or wrongly made a ooc based decision, that was subsequently played out in game when deriving the laws and punishments, to move away from permanently banning characters from the town as it was felt that could be punishing the player, not just the character. I do get frustrated though when characters are role played with no fear of consequence. Yes you know your character will probably only get a fine slapped on them but it might be nice if they feared the establishment just a little occasionally, I mean a few well-honed fighters and powerful mages might actually hurt...

It is easy to stray away from realistic reactions and I know I sometimes get frustrated at my own characters, especially Oxi… I mean surely he will just gut one of those irritating troublemakers one day?

Along the same theme… these ones have already been mentioned but YES!

Taking the time to role play a realistic recovery from injury, especially after a visit to the cross, will always win in my eyes. I have had so many good times with my characters, both being cared for and involved in the care of others and some players have demonstrated such imagination in this area it could never get boring.

Letting your character lose or show weakness sometimes as well is a big winner and will open up so many more role play opportunities. I’ve been fortunate enough to be shown the weaker sides of some of the most unlikely characters and it only ever leads to the most powerful role play.

This is isn’t real life; here it really can be good to fail!