I do not wish a fight with anyone I am just making a few points:
First Point: the SMACC list only helps the merchants that do not follow it because they can go lower than the list and therefore sell more
Competition is the basis of a good economy, setting a set price will not HELP the economy in any way it will only destroy it
Second Point: What gives you the right to exile people or put them on trial! Exiling people does not make them a better person exiled people kill even in exile!!!
Third Point: How do I know that you are concerned for my interested and not yours?
Deats
Anti-Lyrenzia
Moderator: Gamemasters
First Point: SMACC is very useful to merchants. It allows merchants to make greater profits, and gives all merchants a good idea what their wares will sell for. Some may go slightly lower than the SMACC prices, but nothing is as absurd as when plate armour would sell for 20 gold.
Second Point: Force gives us the right to set trials. I believe if you asked most citizens that did not typicaly dis-obey the law, they would believe the trials were a good thing. Now instead of simply slaying criminals, we can imprison them, thus keeping them away from citizens who may be harmed by them.
Third Point: You don't, but how do we know your intrests aren't to destroy the town? How do we know your intrests don't involve making the populace of Trollsbane into slaves? It's simply our word, and our friends words, against yours.
Second Point: Force gives us the right to set trials. I believe if you asked most citizens that did not typicaly dis-obey the law, they would believe the trials were a good thing. Now instead of simply slaying criminals, we can imprison them, thus keeping them away from citizens who may be harmed by them.
Third Point: You don't, but how do we know your intrests aren't to destroy the town? How do we know your intrests don't involve making the populace of Trollsbane into slaves? It's simply our word, and our friends words, against yours.
pointless
First Point: COMPETITION IS ELIMINATED!!! THIS DESTROYS THE ECONOMY
Second Point: By force hmm sounds like a dictator ship to me and exiling people does not work
Third Point: I am not enforcing anything so there for I do not have such intentions and you did not answer my question!!!
Second Point: By force hmm sounds like a dictator ship to me and exiling people does not work
Third Point: I am not enforcing anything so there for I do not have such intentions and you did not answer my question!!!
First Point: Competition is not eliminated, the prices still vary. The SMACC price dictates a minimum price, not a maximum.
Second Point: Call it what you want, but it appears to be working well enough. How is this different from any government? All forms of government use force. I would like you to name a form of government that would use no force, and manage to persuade people to not do something without force of any sort.
Third Point: How do we know you don't have such intentions? The question was "How do I know that you are concerned for my interested and not yours?" and the answer was "You don't...". There is no way to prove such things, we can only give you our word.
Second Point: Call it what you want, but it appears to be working well enough. How is this different from any government? All forms of government use force. I would like you to name a form of government that would use no force, and manage to persuade people to not do something without force of any sort.
Third Point: How do we know you don't have such intentions? The question was "How do I know that you are concerned for my interested and not yours?" and the answer was "You don't...". There is no way to prove such things, we can only give you our word.
Hades, If you look around at some of the parchments near this one you will see you are not alone in your fears. The questions you made about Lyrenzia have been thoroughly talked through and I suggest you look through them. I myself had similar fears but am impressed, so far, by what I see, though my half brother is far from convinced.
You can sell your wares for whatever price you want. I use SMACC as it is a good indication of what goods are worth. If you buy plate armour for 20 gold do not go out in the rain in it and do not rely on it to protect your life. I am a merchant and only buy from craftspeople who do good quality work. I have lived through the lean times though when people were almost giving there wares away. I can tell you I dont want to go back to living hand to mouth again so I support SMACC.
To your last point I can only say that most of the residents of Trollsbane are out for their own interests. Sometimes though these interest follow the same path. The members of Lyrenzia I know, are honest, honourable citizens of long standing. I may not always agree with them but I know they would never knowingly act against the good of the town. Many are watching the foundation closely just in case though so be not too afeared.
You can sell your wares for whatever price you want. I use SMACC as it is a good indication of what goods are worth. If you buy plate armour for 20 gold do not go out in the rain in it and do not rely on it to protect your life. I am a merchant and only buy from craftspeople who do good quality work. I have lived through the lean times though when people were almost giving there wares away. I can tell you I dont want to go back to living hand to mouth again so I support SMACC.
To your last point I can only say that most of the residents of Trollsbane are out for their own interests. Sometimes though these interest follow the same path. The members of Lyrenzia I know, are honest, honourable citizens of long standing. I may not always agree with them but I know they would never knowingly act against the good of the town. Many are watching the foundation closely just in case though so be not too afeared.
last point
I don't care who is convinced I want to be convinced now I have seen nothing here that will convince me and it seems like you do not trust them yourself!!
Trust them? Perhaps not, not as a whole anyway. I trust many of it's members though. Indeed I have trusted some of them with my life before and, as you see, I'm still here. I am a merchant and as such I trust few people, though trust is part of what makes business possible. Until the foundation shows otherwise I see no need to react as if they were demon spawn.
You want proof of their trustworthyness NOW! it's an impossible thing you ask. Just as you can't prove to me you are trustworthy right now. Only until we have had time to get to know each other, and have done business, will we be able to know if either of us are trustworthy. Give them time and judge them on their actions. If your fears are founded then it won't be long before we know.
You want proof of their trustworthyness NOW! it's an impossible thing you ask. Just as you can't prove to me you are trustworthy right now. Only until we have had time to get to know each other, and have done business, will we be able to know if either of us are trustworthy. Give them time and judge them on their actions. If your fears are founded then it won't be long before we know.
1. Your explanation of what makes a good economy is oversimplified and limited to a single-factor explanation. Do you think merhcants can make more money if they co-operate and don't sell lower than a certain price or if they constantly run each other out of business by continuous going cheaper?
Besides, do you see anywhere that says SMACC is enforced by law?
2. Our right comes from those who have selected us to represent them.
Even if we had no right, we are all living in an anarchy so everyone can all do whatever they want, but just that we have to face the consequences from those living around us who either agree or disagree with us, and we have much more that agree than disagree with us. After all, we are already around 100 people just by ourselves alone.
Let's assume for a moment that we don't still don't have the right.
Are you then saying we need permission to give people a chance in a trial before we judge and execute them? Yet if you see a killer or thief you would probably judge and execute him right on the spot?
You say exile doesn't work and you say you don't like force, so what else do you suggest? Imprison them all? That means we have take them with even MORE forcefulness. Do you really want us to take that kind of power?
3. You don't have such "intentions"? Are you saying you don't live by any morals or principles and don't help others when someone kills or steals? Do you ask the killer or thief if he follows the same laws as you first before you punish him? I don't think so. You have your own believes and enforce them on those who oppose them, just as we do. The only difference is that we have written it down, and that we are a hundred people instead of one.
Besides, do you see anywhere that says SMACC is enforced by law?
2. Our right comes from those who have selected us to represent them.
Even if we had no right, we are all living in an anarchy so everyone can all do whatever they want, but just that we have to face the consequences from those living around us who either agree or disagree with us, and we have much more that agree than disagree with us. After all, we are already around 100 people just by ourselves alone.
Let's assume for a moment that we don't still don't have the right.
Are you then saying we need permission to give people a chance in a trial before we judge and execute them? Yet if you see a killer or thief you would probably judge and execute him right on the spot?
You say exile doesn't work and you say you don't like force, so what else do you suggest? Imprison them all? That means we have take them with even MORE forcefulness. Do you really want us to take that kind of power?
3. You don't have such "intentions"? Are you saying you don't live by any morals or principles and don't help others when someone kills or steals? Do you ask the killer or thief if he follows the same laws as you first before you punish him? I don't think so. You have your own believes and enforce them on those who oppose them, just as we do. The only difference is that we have written it down, and that we are a hundred people instead of one.
mistrust
I will never trust such an idiotic foundation, the idea in its self is stupid.
Just for anyone who has doubts I do not murder or steal and neither do I aid criminals!!
my version of the economy is not over simplified, it is correct! My bet is soon SMACC will be enforced by law!!!!
Just for anyone who has doubts I do not murder or steal and neither do I aid criminals!!
my version of the economy is not over simplified, it is correct! My bet is soon SMACC will be enforced by law!!!!
-
Grant Herion
- Posts: 1813
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 1:26 am
-
paul laffing
- Posts: 2189
- Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:01 am
- Location: the place where only completely serious people are allowed
I'm glad I only sell the suppliesGro'bul wrote:you can prove your intentions, by your actions. Tis a pitty people do not follow smacc. i have seen full suits of knight armor go for an ingot, this simply and utterly ruins the economy, especially when smacc is fair if not underpricing items.
~~Avrillon~~
((Sorry for bad English))
I understand your doubts, Hades. Lyrenzia was installed by members of the Trolls'Bane High Society, such as the Grey Rose and others. Of course, merchants have a deep interest in stable high prices, without the risk of inflation(better deflation). And a court under control of the so called nobles make sense too, i feel. You can install all those rules you like to protect your own status in town. Clever made.
But that's the way the story goes. But there is one in charge of the action, who does not compare to those others. If you want to ruin Lyrenzia just elect Darlok. He's surely not with the nobles and follows his dark plans.
Chronis puts bag the feather and reads his letter again. Then he nods and pins it at the wall
I understand your doubts, Hades. Lyrenzia was installed by members of the Trolls'Bane High Society, such as the Grey Rose and others. Of course, merchants have a deep interest in stable high prices, without the risk of inflation(better deflation). And a court under control of the so called nobles make sense too, i feel. You can install all those rules you like to protect your own status in town. Clever made.
But that's the way the story goes. But there is one in charge of the action, who does not compare to those others. If you want to ruin Lyrenzia just elect Darlok. He's surely not with the nobles and follows his dark plans.
Chronis puts bag the feather and reads his letter again. Then he nods and pins it at the wall
killing criminals
I do not stop criminals myself some of my friends do though!!!
Dear Deats (or Hades ?)
I am glad to see, that you like to support Lyrenzia. In the moment, there is only the possibility for guilds to join Lyrenzia.
The other way to support us are the public elections. But to be there a registered citizen who is able to vote, you haven't lifed long enough in our town.
But we will glad to see everyone in supporting Lyrenzia Foundation by following the written laws to the wellfare of our town. You also may donate for the townwalls or participate in other ways (trading by SMACC) in the principles of Lyrenzia Foundation.
With kind regards,
Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin
Councilor of Lyrenzia
I am glad to see, that you like to support Lyrenzia. In the moment, there is only the possibility for guilds to join Lyrenzia.
The other way to support us are the public elections. But to be there a registered citizen who is able to vote, you haven't lifed long enough in our town.
But we will glad to see everyone in supporting Lyrenzia Foundation by following the written laws to the wellfare of our town. You also may donate for the townwalls or participate in other ways (trading by SMACC) in the principles of Lyrenzia Foundation.
With kind regards,
Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin
Councilor of Lyrenzia