Of Trolling and Trees

[David Turner]

Let me first say that I thought long and hard about bringing up this topic since I did not want to give ideas to the trolls who had not yet thought of the idea. Finally I decided that it would be better to say something anyway. Mainly because there are enough players who do know the problem to make it a weekly problem and because it is an OOC problem that at this point is treated like an IC issue. Therefore change will only come if the topic is addressed.

The issue is this. Trees can and sometimes are planted seemingly for the expressed reason of causing problems with movement and navigation. It is one thing to place trees in a line with one space between them... it is another to then place a second line of trees such that they block the spaces between the first line and so create an almost imperceptible wall. The second way that trees can be used to troll is by planting them in such a way so that they will hide important objectives or doorways. These do not hurt experienced players as much, since they know how to navigate around the unseen obstacles and they know where to go to find whatever person or door that they need, it only hurts the new players who do not. Think about how important the NPC Zathrot is for new players and then wander around Bane as though you were a new player and see how easy it is to find him, that should give you an idea about the problem.

This problem is usually left alone for long periods of time because characters see the trees and think it is some sort of "city beautification project" and actively attack others in game (usually verbally, sometimes not) for the "crime" of tree destruction. The problem with trees is actually an issue where people are taking advantage of a pair of limitations within the game engine (those being that the 45% angle that we see things from makes one trunk hide the fact that a second tree trunk is there, and that the tree's leaves can effectively block sight of important things that someone who was standing on the ground would have no trouble seeing) and therefore should be an OOC crime that should result in a character ban or other similar punishment for the abuse of the system.

And, while I understand and appreciate the idea behind "city beautification", there are many ways to plant trees that do not cause either of these problems.

Reactions are welcome so long as the issue is thoughtfully addressed.

[Pugnacious]

Grab your hatchet and shovel then remove whatever tree offends you. No need to ban one of the few players left in this game.

[Achae Eanstray]

I am of the opinion this could possibly be treated as an ig issue. Isn't that why you have a mayor and councilmen, to set up laws? It seems as if in the past there was a Trolls Bane forester and only he or she was allowed to plant and remove trees? This forester of course wouldn't be complained about if someone saw them removing trees. Might be a good position for your char to volunteer

[David Turner]

First, nobody is saying to "ban the offenders forever". All I am asking is that this be treated like a problem worthy of OOC responses in the same way that hiding in building shadows to attack or denying new players access to needed resources is. The results are similar in both cases, after all.

As for the second responder: my main can't (IC) "just grab an axe and cut the trees down". IC he has no reason (he the character can supposedly see, even if me the player cannot) and because he would not want to offend by the act of tree destruction. Playing IC is more important than just doing what I want, after-all.

And as for the removal of the characters who do this: I doubt it will come to that, but if it does than I would be glad for the removal of a person who constantly acts in a way that keeps new people from having fun (and thereby making them not want to play).

Appointing a forester is a good IG response but is only a temporary stopgap measure for a problem that cannot be so simply solved. The overarching problem with IG responses as the only response is that sometimes the effects are OOC ones. Think about how a person who decides that he will be a mass murderer and, after training himself, goes on a rampage to kill as many as he can. While the town guard may be the appropriate IG response to such a troll, the GMs still have the leeway to act since his actions have such strong OOC results. Or, to put it another way, if the forester idea really was the answer to this discussion than what happened to that person to allow the problem to return?

[Estralis Seborian]

Please report any mutilations of the map to a GM of your choice or even better by typing "!gm <Your message>". Please give the coordinates as well, you can find out about the character's position by saying "show position".

[David Turner]

So then it can be treated as an OOC action? Thank you, that is all I wanted to know.

[Qeewee]

On the note of the tree stuff: I've seen certain characters (not GM POs) that plant trees with just a click, from many tiles away, abusing this to block roads etc. Heard something about planting apples and cherries on your belt. Just something to look into.
*goes back to being an inactive player*

[Achae Eanstray]

Chars used to plant in the belt quite a bit, once Dusty planted 20 trees the same spot and decided planting in the belt was not the thing to do. Am not sure if this is considered a bug or not.