My point wasn't who is smart or not either, but that the reason people don't understand your math scripts is because 95% of the people dont' have the background knowledge, instead of simply because 95% aren't intellegent enough.
Your examples don't prove anything since like you said, you don't have unlimited time to see the end result. Like someone else said, in the case of a "really dumb person", I would call that an extreme situation, where that person is probably suffering from some kind of brain or nervous problem.
@"You combine the things you have learned with your intelligence to get results. The older you get, the more facts you have learned that you can combine, so the results you get become greater and greater"
So why doesn't this apply to getting greater results in magic too?
That's also a good point pointed out by Hobbiton that I was going to piont out too, what about other factors like the teacher? Doesn't how well a teacher a teaches also affect whether the student will understand it too? Why don't ALL teachers just simply give the textbook to all the students and just sit back to see who will understand and who won't? In my opinion intellegence isn't the only factor that will determine whether or not someone understands something.
Then even if all this is just each of us putting forth our own seperate opinions of what intellegence means, how were people supposed to know that the mechanics of magic were supposed to be dependant on YOUR opinion of what intellegence means, which you never emphasized or explained to them before this?
New Magic System - how much does it take?!
Moderator: Gamemasters
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@Bror:
Not everyone knew your definition of magic and intelligence and knowledge etc. And how were they supposed to? Read Lord of the Rings and everything would become clear? I dont think that you should have to read a huge book to understand exactly how you think of magic etc. It would have been nice to have a description of your ideas and such OTHER than the gigantic manual that nobody finds.
@Martin:
It is true that some people just cant pass a test, but unless they have mental handicap, it is not from lack of intelligence. They go into it and find it very hard, but do not want to spend the time (do not have the time) to spend learning it all. They may not be able to learn it at the rate it is taught either. But like I stated before, these people CAN learn it, just it is harder and it takes longer than the average person.
Not everyone knew your definition of magic and intelligence and knowledge etc. And how were they supposed to? Read Lord of the Rings and everything would become clear? I dont think that you should have to read a huge book to understand exactly how you think of magic etc. It would have been nice to have a description of your ideas and such OTHER than the gigantic manual that nobody finds.
@Martin:
It is true that some people just cant pass a test, but unless they have mental handicap, it is not from lack of intelligence. They go into it and find it very hard, but do not want to spend the time (do not have the time) to spend learning it all. They may not be able to learn it at the rate it is taught either. But like I stated before, these people CAN learn it, just it is harder and it takes longer than the average person.
New Magic System
That's exactly the point!!!Quote: from Astral on 3:34 pm on April 10, 2002
They may not be able to learn it at the rate it is taught either. But like I stated before, these people CAN learn it, just it is harder and it takes longer than the average person.
It takes longer than the average person.
While you learn or try to do something like magics, you can't train and strengthen your body, so you won't even be as strong as a "normal" person, let alone a warrior. So, the choice of the wizards to be strong and skilled was illogical right from the beginning. When you create your character, know, what role you will play and set your attributes, that they most fit your role. Have all, that set their INT low, put their points in essence and willpower? The other attributes don't look like mental attributes.
New Magic System
@Sharag: I don't think this particular thread is mainly discussing about how people should have distriubted their points. There are other threads where that is more of the main focus, but just to respond to your point again which was made many times before, the thing is that many people DIDN'T know what role they were going to be when they made their character, but still developed into a role that was possible and have been playing that role ever since.
I don't think you can compare strength and intellegence like this either, especially when Bror says that intellegence is something you're born with and can't change, while strength is something that can change depending on how much you train your muscles. So I'd expect a wizard like any other person would have "normal" strength which may be less compared to a warrior who trains all the time, but not to the point where they are "weaklings". So where do you find the average or normal value for these attributes? Also not everyone expected either that Bror's opinion is that magic must be "learned" and that therefore intellegence is a must. Some people just set their attributes to an "average" person and then shaped their role to the best they could, by how they played and developed their character. Now these character concepts that have developed over the history of Illarion simply cease to exist.
I think this argument should be discussed in other threads where it is the main focus and covered more in-depth, so that things are repeated and spread all over the place.
I don't think you can compare strength and intellegence like this either, especially when Bror says that intellegence is something you're born with and can't change, while strength is something that can change depending on how much you train your muscles. So I'd expect a wizard like any other person would have "normal" strength which may be less compared to a warrior who trains all the time, but not to the point where they are "weaklings". So where do you find the average or normal value for these attributes? Also not everyone expected either that Bror's opinion is that magic must be "learned" and that therefore intellegence is a must. Some people just set their attributes to an "average" person and then shaped their role to the best they could, by how they played and developed their character. Now these character concepts that have developed over the history of Illarion simply cease to exist.
I think this argument should be discussed in other threads where it is the main focus and covered more in-depth, so that things are repeated and spread all over the place.
New Magic System
I am also having trouble, at the moment, because there are several threads, in which I am posting about this topic and some, in that I don't participate. I always only answer to posts of others.
Your argument about the training ability of strength is indeed a good one, but it's fact, that you have to be born with certain physical prerequisites to be able to train your muscles far over a certain point. This training possibility is limited by genetical inheritance.
And training your muscles, you have to neglect your studies of the magic arts and so can't be skilled that much. Otherwise, you can study magics, but so, your muscles will disappear without using them over a long time.
Craftmen, distance fighting, melee fighting, peasentry AND wizardry, because until now, they got their magic ability for free and only chose the way of magic, because it was possible.
(Edited by Sharag at 6:57 pm on April 10, 2002)
(Edited by Sharag at 6:58 pm on April 10, 2002)
Your argument about the training ability of strength is indeed a good one, but it's fact, that you have to be born with certain physical prerequisites to be able to train your muscles far over a certain point. This training possibility is limited by genetical inheritance.
And training your muscles, you have to neglect your studies of the magic arts and so can't be skilled that much. Otherwise, you can study magics, but so, your muscles will disappear without using them over a long time.
In my opinion, that's exactly the problem. There might be enough "innocents" out there, who didn't abuse this, but there are MANY out there, that are masters in many different ways.Some people just set their attributes to an "average" person and then shaped their role to the best they could,
Craftmen, distance fighting, melee fighting, peasentry AND wizardry, because until now, they got their magic ability for free and only chose the way of magic, because it was possible.
(Edited by Sharag at 6:57 pm on April 10, 2002)
(Edited by Sharag at 6:58 pm on April 10, 2002)
New Magic System
I have found something interesting!!! Yesterday I could not cast ra-kel but today I can!! If you can eventually cast all spells such as practicing to help understand or by getting older this is okay for me. I don't know how but hey at least I may become a great mage again! The syestem is GREAT if you can eventually cast the spells, even if it takes a while.
New Magic System
Yes, I too can cast a FEW more spells.... but this is not due to the magic system, it is due to Bror fiddling around with the Intellect requirements.
New Magic System
A million monkeys at a million type writers would eventually write a
great book
great book
New Magic System
Bah! I been to the Illarion realm for about 5-6 months now... SO much changed(damn the gods!). I couldn't cast many spells... How is this a good thing. I am a very old hobbit, I do not take to changes nicely...
OOC: Are you just trying to mess the game up? What was the point of changing the magik system?
OOC: Are you just trying to mess the game up? What was the point of changing the magik system?
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JOIN ME Astral
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I am angry, but I am not insane.
I have thought of a simple tweak that I think would improve the magic system. Make the spells harder to cast! Much harder! This way the newbies with maxed intelligence would have to spend a bit of time working to overpower the older players. And the older players that developed their skill would still stand a chance even if they cannot cast all the spells. If you wanted to limit the number of mages, then this will REALLY help you. If the PK's have to spend alot of time training before being able to kill everyone, then they may not think it is worth it. I think that all of the older mages can live with this. This would accomplish your goal PLUS improve the RP and decrease PKs. You could do this simple thing to improve the magic system without giving us our spells back.
I would easily be satisfyed even if I dont get the spells back for a while, as long as it is harder for the newbies to become so strong. Maxed attributes alone shouldn't get you the world.
I have thought of a simple tweak that I think would improve the magic system. Make the spells harder to cast! Much harder! This way the newbies with maxed intelligence would have to spend a bit of time working to overpower the older players. And the older players that developed their skill would still stand a chance even if they cannot cast all the spells. If you wanted to limit the number of mages, then this will REALLY help you. If the PK's have to spend alot of time training before being able to kill everyone, then they may not think it is worth it. I think that all of the older mages can live with this. This would accomplish your goal PLUS improve the RP and decrease PKs. You could do this simple thing to improve the magic system without giving us our spells back.
I would easily be satisfyed even if I dont get the spells back for a while, as long as it is harder for the newbies to become so strong. Maxed attributes alone shouldn't get you the world.
New Magic System
So what happened to this ideology? I guess ideas have changed for the development team. "Senseless attribute distribution" is what we have now. Lots of experienced mages have been killed by this now even more severe problem. But since Illarion is now so big, it is no longer important? I hope not.Quote: from Bror on 6:51 am on Aug. 23, 2001
I find it harsh, when role players get killed from people with powergamed skills and senseless attribute distributions.
I find it harsh when roleplayers can't play their role because some will-be mage stands next to them casting offensive spells at himself for minutes.
New Magic System
for some reasons, i thought about the attributes for the last days. there are:
agility, constitution, dexterity, essence, intelligence, perception, stength and willpower.
i wanted to know what they mean in illarion, but i wasn't really able to find it out in detail; some of them might have use NOW, some might not. (bror didn't even know himself what "essence" is and how it is used in illarion at the moment
).
the meanings of the attributes will change with time, and the attribs which have no (or nearly no) use currently will have one in the future. what does this mean?
you create a character and give him certain attributes -- probably the ones where you know what they stand for (str, int, dex..). and they will change. that's because illarion is in development...
so simply be prepared for it.
martin
agility, constitution, dexterity, essence, intelligence, perception, stength and willpower.
i wanted to know what they mean in illarion, but i wasn't really able to find it out in detail; some of them might have use NOW, some might not. (bror didn't even know himself what "essence" is and how it is used in illarion at the moment
).the meanings of the attributes will change with time, and the attribs which have no (or nearly no) use currently will have one in the future. what does this mean?
you create a character and give him certain attributes -- probably the ones where you know what they stand for (str, int, dex..). and they will change. that's because illarion is in development...
so simply be prepared for it.
martin
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Emhyr van Emreis
- Posts: 209
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New Magic System
Martin, that is not the point. I think nobody here is furious about the way the importance of intelligence has changed. The point is that, to allow for a consistant and continuous roleplay, there should be a way for older players to adapt to the changes, without completely dropping out of their role or creating a new character from scrap.
This whole discussion is in no way whatsoever meant to discourage you guys from developing the skills/attribute/game system in any way. It is just that this change was a bit too... well, hard to adapt to for the players, and that a little help in that direction would really do a lot of good at this point.
This whole discussion is in no way whatsoever meant to discourage you guys from developing the skills/attribute/game system in any way. It is just that this change was a bit too... well, hard to adapt to for the players, and that a little help in that direction would really do a lot of good at this point.
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but i think, that *IS* exactly the most important point. if you base your character on uncertain things, well, then you will have to deal with sudden changes. if there was a way to do it differently (better), i'm sure someone would have found it.
there was one proposal which seemed somehow like a appropriate alternative:
make skillgain MUCH slower for magic. what would the effects be?
* newbies wouldn't be able to become superheros within 3 minutes.
* the skills of old chars would have to be set to (near to) 0.
* fighters become superheroes in 1/100 of the time that magicians need (-> whining about game balance)
i think we agree that there had to be a change: spellcasting was to easy and everyone was able to cast all spells. that' far from being realistic. but every possible change means that at least a subset of all chars in illarion lose some abilities. and some of them based their char on some of the abilities they've lost. that's sad, but illarion is far from perfect. every change will lead to some people complaining (and that's necessary!) sooner or later, the chars as they exist now will be lost anyhow because of several reasons. you have to be aware of that; when you create a character which seems to fit into your story now, it might happen that there are changes. and you have alternatives:
* create a new character
* change your backgroundstory
* change your story ("once, i was the best mage in the world, but due to changes in the astral world my magic became much weaker and i'll try to get back my old powers...").
it would be much less work to freeze illarion at the current state...
martin
there was one proposal which seemed somehow like a appropriate alternative:
make skillgain MUCH slower for magic. what would the effects be?
* newbies wouldn't be able to become superheros within 3 minutes.
* the skills of old chars would have to be set to (near to) 0.
* fighters become superheroes in 1/100 of the time that magicians need (-> whining about game balance)
i think we agree that there had to be a change: spellcasting was to easy and everyone was able to cast all spells. that' far from being realistic. but every possible change means that at least a subset of all chars in illarion lose some abilities. and some of them based their char on some of the abilities they've lost. that's sad, but illarion is far from perfect. every change will lead to some people complaining (and that's necessary!) sooner or later, the chars as they exist now will be lost anyhow because of several reasons. you have to be aware of that; when you create a character which seems to fit into your story now, it might happen that there are changes. and you have alternatives:
* create a new character
* change your backgroundstory
* change your story ("once, i was the best mage in the world, but due to changes in the astral world my magic became much weaker and i'll try to get back my old powers...").
it would be much less work to freeze illarion at the current state...
martin
New Magic System
First of all, I dont see why you would have to delete the skill of all older mages if you did what you said. When you made ra kel qwan create fields, you didn't erase the ra kel and qwan skills of all existing mages.
But your skill gain proposal wont really help. Unless you make it even more difficult to cast the spells, this proposal is useless. I have not seen any major difference in someone with a low skill and someone with a high skill in a certain rune. I have never noticed that it did an extreme amount more damage to have a high skill. As long as you can cast the spell at 100%, you are about as good as you can get. So just make them harder to cast, and maybe some of Martin's idea.
But dont delete the skills of the existing mages, because that's not fair to them. We would have no way of knowing about this and it would just make the game even worse. It is not fair to go changing older players' roles from mage to merchant to miner etc.
And about attributes not doing much: If the intelligence attribute does so little, then we wouldn't be having this argument. And agility has a BIG effect on your parrying skills, just so you know.
But your skill gain proposal wont really help. Unless you make it even more difficult to cast the spells, this proposal is useless. I have not seen any major difference in someone with a low skill and someone with a high skill in a certain rune. I have never noticed that it did an extreme amount more damage to have a high skill. As long as you can cast the spell at 100%, you are about as good as you can get. So just make them harder to cast, and maybe some of Martin's idea.
But dont delete the skills of the existing mages, because that's not fair to them. We would have no way of knowing about this and it would just make the game even worse. It is not fair to go changing older players' roles from mage to merchant to miner etc.
And about attributes not doing much: If the intelligence attribute does so little, then we wouldn't be having this argument. And agility has a BIG effect on your parrying skills, just so you know.
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if you make skillgain much harder, it would be unfair as well.
however, i think a dependence of damage on INT would be a solution for future (at least i hope so). again: the acutal situation is *NOT* the final solution, it's just for now.
there will hopefully be a lot of changes...
martin
however, i think a dependence of damage on INT would be a solution for future (at least i hope so). again: the acutal situation is *NOT* the final solution, it's just for now.
there will hopefully be a lot of changes...
martin
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Emhyr van Emreis
- Posts: 209
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- Contact:
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Greetings!
Well, just to mention the skillgain thing... it is another topic that has been on my mind for quite a while already. I'm sure it will be changed as Illarion advances, but I think that making skillgain a lot harder is vital. Look, I can master blacksmithing in one day. I can almost master parry in 20 minutes if I train with another player. Cool!
I think that these should be scaled a lot along the time axis... at least 10 days of hard continuos work for good blacksmithing (chain shirt) and at least like 40 days for mastery should fend most powergamers off for example. And it should make the master items very much more precious... It's not special if you can make an item everybody can make after a bit of work.
Doesn't really belong into this thread, but, oh well... it just comes to mind while reading your post about skillgain.
Well, just to mention the skillgain thing... it is another topic that has been on my mind for quite a while already. I'm sure it will be changed as Illarion advances, but I think that making skillgain a lot harder is vital. Look, I can master blacksmithing in one day. I can almost master parry in 20 minutes if I train with another player. Cool!
I think that these should be scaled a lot along the time axis... at least 10 days of hard continuos work for good blacksmithing (chain shirt) and at least like 40 days for mastery should fend most powergamers off for example. And it should make the master items very much more precious... It's not special if you can make an item everybody can make after a bit of work.
Doesn't really belong into this thread, but, oh well... it just comes to mind while reading your post about skillgain.
New Magic System
@Martin:
A great thing that would complement any new magic system is simply making the spells harder to cast. (IE, lowering the initial sucess rate) That way, newbies cant be given strong magic books and go out and be casting hept kel and yeg kel at 100% in about 20 minutes. And if you make it harder to become someone strong enough to PK, then you will see a big drop in the number of PKs. If a PK now has to spend five times as long practicing to kill someone, then they may not want to spend the time. That way the older more practiced mages can still cast their spells at 100% IF their skills are high enough. And when you get to the stage, you could make it so INT does not affect what spells you can and cant do, rather your success rates. (IE "New Magic System Proposal"). I do realize that this is a temporary "fix", and that is why I give you these suggestions. Please consider some of this
And something should be done about mastering parry in minutes too, I hate these powergaming newbies beating me up
A great thing that would complement any new magic system is simply making the spells harder to cast. (IE, lowering the initial sucess rate) That way, newbies cant be given strong magic books and go out and be casting hept kel and yeg kel at 100% in about 20 minutes. And if you make it harder to become someone strong enough to PK, then you will see a big drop in the number of PKs. If a PK now has to spend five times as long practicing to kill someone, then they may not want to spend the time. That way the older more practiced mages can still cast their spells at 100% IF their skills are high enough. And when you get to the stage, you could make it so INT does not affect what spells you can and cant do, rather your success rates. (IE "New Magic System Proposal"). I do realize that this is a temporary "fix", and that is why I give you these suggestions. Please consider some of this
And something should be done about mastering parry in minutes too, I hate these powergaming newbies beating me up
New Magic System
first of all, the skillgains are much too fast. i think it was implemented to *test* the kills (this is an alpha-version, never forget that ), how they work, what the difference is between high and low skills etc. (and i think that there's still a lot of work to do, i don't like the fighting system at all).
but, astral, your proposal is equivalent to mine: if you make casting spells much harder, it's the same as if gaining the skill becomes slower. (i'm not sure about successrates at all...). *HOWEVER* i believe, that not everyone should be able to cast *ALL* possible spells. that's not realistic. there has to be a limitation for that as well.
martin
), how they work, what the difference is between high and low skills etc. (and i think that there's still a lot of work to do, i don't like the fighting system at all).but, astral, your proposal is equivalent to mine: if you make casting spells much harder, it's the same as if gaining the skill becomes slower. (i'm not sure about successrates at all...). *HOWEVER* i believe, that not everyone should be able to cast *ALL* possible spells. that's not realistic. there has to be a limitation for that as well.
martin
New Magic System
If INT affects the success rates, that still means that it will limit the spells you can cast. If someone with INT 12 can cast hept kel at 1/10 at max skill, then that spell is in essence, useless to them. But they should be able to cast it, but with only a very small success rate. I guess skillgain is on the same lines as this. But INT should not completely stop you from casting a spell, you can still try to cast it, you will just fail ALOT. Maybe with an INT 4 person it MAY be impossible to cast a higher level spell, but a mage at INT 14 should be able to cast all the spells, BUT not as successfully as someone with full intellect. This way, your system could be based on INT between 3 and 19. This would be more realistic, there should not be a plateau of learning near the top.
And how did you decide to give halflings so much magical ability?
And how did you decide to give halflings so much magical ability?
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i didn't decide anything; that's brors work. the only thing about halflings which came from me was the gfx.
anyway, i don't like your proposal.i don't like the idea of anyone being at least able to try to cast a spell, even if the successrate is extremely low. there's a point i do not understand:
say you have a char with 12 INT which has a successrate of 1:50 to cast spell X (we're talking about a lot more spells than there are now!). he won't ever cast this spell; why should he actually *have* it in his spellbook? i mean, where's the difference?
i don't know a single game where the spellcasting-system works like that. there's ALWAYS a limitation of what you are able to cast. and there is not a single system, where a knight (or something similar) is able to cast---in principle---the same spells like a wizard. knights however *might* be able to cast some (minor) spells, but not all of them, not even with extremely low successrates. and these systems work quite well.
martin
anyway, i don't like your proposal.i don't like the idea of anyone being at least able to try to cast a spell, even if the successrate is extremely low. there's a point i do not understand:
say you have a char with 12 INT which has a successrate of 1:50 to cast spell X (we're talking about a lot more spells than there are now!). he won't ever cast this spell; why should he actually *have* it in his spellbook? i mean, where's the difference?
i don't know a single game where the spellcasting-system works like that. there's ALWAYS a limitation of what you are able to cast. and there is not a single system, where a knight (or something similar) is able to cast---in principle---the same spells like a wizard. knights however *might* be able to cast some (minor) spells, but not all of them, not even with extremely low successrates. and these systems work quite well.
martin
New Magic System
@Martin:
The system you have right now does NOT work well. Maybe it needs more thought, but the problem of knights casting too many spells should be solved BEFORE they start playing the game. IE, they choose an occupation in the character creation screen which affects the spells that they can cast, the weapons they can use, etc. That way, you could make the magic system different, so you dont have to worry about knights using the magic system to their advantage. And now that's what we have in Illarion now. And the classical case of newbie powergamed mages taking advantage of the roleplaying mages. That's NOT the way it should be.
About Halflings: If you didn't decide that, then maybe you should let Bror answer instead of you. I never put '@martin: how did you decide...'
The system you have right now does NOT work well. Maybe it needs more thought, but the problem of knights casting too many spells should be solved BEFORE they start playing the game. IE, they choose an occupation in the character creation screen which affects the spells that they can cast, the weapons they can use, etc. That way, you could make the magic system different, so you dont have to worry about knights using the magic system to their advantage. And now that's what we have in Illarion now. And the classical case of newbie powergamed mages taking advantage of the roleplaying mages. That's NOT the way it should be.
About Halflings: If you didn't decide that, then maybe you should let Bror answer instead of you. I never put '@martin: how did you decide...'
New Magic System
as you probably know, bror is absent for the next time so he can't answer.
your argument about the "sudden" change etc. is totally pointless, since you *KNOW* that this is a game which is in development. there *could* happen sudden changes.
i agree, that the current system does not work well -- that's the reason why it will be changed. what's left?
* the system will change for sure
* it can't be changed fast because the server would have to be changed and that's not possible at the moment
* you always should have in mind that this is *in development*. there are changes. you'll have to deal with it, that your character can maybe get lost or something, or a totally new skillsystem is implemented and your char has to be deleted. who knows.
martin
your argument about the "sudden" change etc. is totally pointless, since you *KNOW* that this is a game which is in development. there *could* happen sudden changes.
i agree, that the current system does not work well -- that's the reason why it will be changed. what's left?
* the system will change for sure
* it can't be changed fast because the server would have to be changed and that's not possible at the moment
* you always should have in mind that this is *in development*. there are changes. you'll have to deal with it, that your character can maybe get lost or something, or a totally new skillsystem is implemented and your char has to be deleted. who knows.
martin
New Magic System
what if you do like this that if you take high in int then its easier too train youre magic skills and you start with only two spells one evil one good if you train the good spell too some sort of limit you gain another spell but that spell is an good spell not evil like you can only use it for good use somehow....
New Magic System
@Martin:
If nobody around can answer the halfling question, why do you have to?
And I know the game is in development. But it is not like you guys wake up one morning and make large changes with no previous thought about it. But that's what it seems like for us when these things change with absolutely no warning. If you are going to change the magic system, I think you would know about it many days in advance, and could tell us some of the things about it. Like you could tell us:
1) How it works and affects us.
2) How long will it be in effect? (Long term or short term?)
3) How will it benefit us.
I know that you may not be able to predict precisely when the replacement system will come in place on these things, but you sure seem to know right away that this one is short term. You should make a place on the homepage to tell us of some major changes in the near future.
If nobody around can answer the halfling question, why do you have to?
And I know the game is in development. But it is not like you guys wake up one morning and make large changes with no previous thought about it. But that's what it seems like for us when these things change with absolutely no warning. If you are going to change the magic system, I think you would know about it many days in advance, and could tell us some of the things about it. Like you could tell us:
1) How it works and affects us.
2) How long will it be in effect? (Long term or short term?)
3) How will it benefit us.
I know that you may not be able to predict precisely when the replacement system will come in place on these things, but you sure seem to know right away that this one is short term. You should make a place on the homepage to tell us of some major changes in the near future.
New Magic System
believe me -- i would have warned you if i was able to, but i wasn't. i knew this magics-thing later than most of the players did.
and i can't edit the homepage as well.
we will surely find another system, further there will be items which alter stats, there will be far more spells etc. etc.
take it easy
martin
and i can't edit the homepage as well.
we will surely find another system, further there will be items which alter stats, there will be far more spells etc. etc.
take it easy
martin
New Magic System
what did you think of my proposal or maybe you could not read it 
without bad ideas there could never be good ideas
without bad ideas there could never be good ideas
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Baron of Power
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 2:39 am
New Magic System
I cant even cast a mes pen anymore
(Edited by Baron of Power at 7:23 pm on May 3, 2002)
(Edited by Baron of Power at 7:23 pm on May 3, 2002)
New Magic System
I am no longer as angry as before when Dyluck was talking too. I can live with the spells I have, but that's not the problem. The problem is the sudden introduction of this. I know that you cannot edit the homepage, but I would think that you would get told some of this stuff beforehand. Whenever Bror reads this, he may see that.