The Lyrenzia Foundation / Die Lyrenzia Vereinigung

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:18 am

Korwin wrote:nor will it tax the citizens of Trollsbane.

I believe I recall this right here.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:23 am

I am talking of a tax of the guild allied with the Lyzenria foundation, not others. Just the people in the guilds allied to Lyrenzia.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:35 am

The people in those guilds are still citizens of Troll's Bane, or are they not?

Andriel · Post by **Andriel** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:40 am

I'm a little bit frightened of this association. It's only a feeling, but I'm sure that everyone knows such a warning in one's heart.
In my opinion there will rule sth. like lynch law if you say that the town's inhabitants shall prevent crime or even punish criminals. Or what's about denunciation? If somebody isn't well-liked in Troll's Bane avenging oneself by affirming sth like: "XYZ has casted in town, punish him!" would be very easy, wouldn't it?
Perhaps I'm overexciting but I'm really distressing myself. Although I don't want to allege that anyone of you has dishonest motives or will abuse his authority I would really appreciate it if you could resolve my doubts.

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:43 am

thats why I saw there should be a police group policing the town, not a militia wanting blood.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:50 am

I'm scared for myself. I don't know this is true, but I am told I am hated by everyone.

What would stop one of my enemies from saying I did something that I really didn't? What would stop Elaralith from saying that I killed someone in town, and having an army march down and rip me apart?

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:05 am

Dyluck wrote:
Thereadore wrote:Dyluck, you are the only one who can't decide who the people are. You are the only one who has a problem with it. I do not sssee anyone elssse complaining.
I'm sorry once again Thereadore, but your argumentation is complete grogshit. If you know who the people are, why don't you answer my questions? Why can't you give me a number?

Possst a note, "We are going to be voting on town lawsss on sssuch and sssuch a day. Anyone interesssted in voting will be there at sssuch and sssuch a time to vote." I would sssuggest the pig pen area, asss you can take votesss as they leave, one person, one vote. Alssso, I would sssugessst two votesss. (( One during evening for English speakers, one during the evening in Germany for German speakers ))

Whoever doesssn't ssshow up doesssn't care. Then you find out if the people agree. What is ssso hard about that? It doesssn't matter how many people there are, 2 or 2000.

(( I would suggest doing it IN GAME, not on boards for voting, since then you get one vote per player or close as you can get ))

Dyluck wrote:
Thereadore wrote:The unwritten law issss you do not ussse magic in town unlessss it isss to defend yourssself when sssomeone isss attacking you or in town attacksss.
Who gave you the right to decide that? Are you the one who decides what the laws are now? How can you proove that is the unwritten law? I'm sorry but are you really so blind that you cannot see the problem with "the people" and "knowing what is the unwritten laws" even after all those examples I gave?

I did not decide that. That issss the whole point. That is the law asss everyone I have talked to underssstands it. That is exactly my point, it was not up to me to decide, but the town itself. Ssso what gives YOU the right to decide it's other than has been agreed upon since ages passst?

Dyluck wrote:
Ellarion wrote:My problem is not with the fact that the laws need to be written but that you have set yourselves up to write them and change them at your whim.
Does that mean you have a problem with every other citizen of Troll's Bane? Because everyday each person is making and upholding their own laws at their own whim. Now you think that it's an injustice just because a group of people make and uphold the same laws and make it known to the public? Yet you don't have a problem with each and every person making and upholding different laws every day?

I agree with Ellarion. I have absolutely no problem with the lawsss being written down. I just have a problem with you arbitrarlity thinking that you will be the onesss to do it.

If you want to right down the lawsss and make new onesss, very good, jussst make sssure they are the lawsss the people want assss a whole, not a sssubssset.

If you can not figure out how to get what the people want written down, then you are not the people for the job sssso get off your high horssse and figure it out.

(( If you have read the book "Animal Farm" you will understand my objections ))

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:18 am

Thereadore wrote:Possst a note, "We are going to be voting on town lawsss on sssuch and sssuch a day. Anyone interesssted in voting will be there at sssuch and sssuch a time to vote." I would sssuggest the pig pen area, asss you can take votesss as they leave, one person, one vote. Alssso, I would sssugessst two votesss. (( One during evening for English speakers, one during the evening in Germany for German speakers ))

Whoever doesssn't ssshow up doesssn't care. Then you find out if the people agree. What is ssso hard about that? It doesssn't matter how many people there are, 2 or 2000.

Are you out of your mind?? I'm really really sorry this time, but I am completely baffled as to how you can be so stupid!? So if only 2 people show up, then they decided something for the town? If the town has 100 people, you think the other 98 will obey? If 2000 people show up to vote and the town has 10000 people, you think thke other 8000 will obey? Does everyone have to show up to vote just because somebody claims they are making a town vote? Why should they listen to that person? What gives that person the right to say that this voting will decide something for the town?

Why do you think nobody has done this before? Why do you think the town has not made "the laws" for so long? You think you can make a public voting? Why don't you try it and prove it? Make a voting and ask the people do decide something! Anything!

Thereadore wrote:I feel there sssshould be a new law, that anyone with a mirror isss not allowed in town. What sssay you and the people to thisss?

Why don't you go start a public voting to decide on this?

Thereadore wrote:I did not decide that. That issss the whole point. That is the law asss everyone I have talked to underssstands it. That is exactly my point, it was not up to me to decide, but the town itself. Ssso what gives YOU the right to decide it's other than has been agreed upon since ages passst?

Yes you decided that! You just decided that because everyone YOU talked to understands it. That's the only proof you have! You keep saying "the town" decided it, but the only proof you have is what YOU say. According to YOUR law, you just said that everyone who casts spells to heal an injured person commits a crime since "healing" wasn't included in your definition of reasons for casting. Don't you understand the problem with "unwritten law" and "the people" yet? Don't you get the point yet? You and every person already does the same thing that Lyrenzia is doing:

-You wrote down what YOU THINK is the law and YOU THINK that a number of people, whom you can't even define, agrees with you, even though you DON'T KNOW the exact wording and details of the laws that each of those other people believe in.

-Lyrenzia wrote down what WE THINK is the law, and in addition to those WE THINK agree with us, we also KNOW a certain number of people who are the members of Lyrenzia, agrees with us. We KNOW the exact wording and details of the laws that we believe in.

Thereadore wrote:
Dyluck wrote:
Ellarion wrote:My problem is not with the fact that the laws need to be written but that you have set yourselves up to write them and change them at your whim.
Does that mean you have a problem with every other citizen of Troll's Bane? Because everyday each person is making and upholding their own laws at their own whim. Now you think that it's an injustice just because a group of people make and uphold the same laws and make it known to the public? Yet you don't have a problem with each and every person making and upholding different laws every day?
I agree with Ellarion. I have absolutely no problem with the lawsss being written down. I just have a problem with you arbitrarlity thinking that you will be the onesss to do it.

So that means you have a problem with yourself? Do you understand that every day you and every person is doing exactly what you are accusing us of doing? If you don't understand the philosophy of why this is true(which you obviously don't), then read my posts again.

Dyluck
Headmaster of the Magic Academy

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:16 am

Bumbol, a designated group of people to be the only ones who can patrol the streets to enforce the law isn't possible. There isn't enough manpower and availability to be distributed over time and place.

Dyluck
Headmaster of the Magic Academy

Lyrenzia Foundation · Post by **Lyrenzia Foundation** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:14 am

The Lyrenzia Foundation has acknowledged the application of the Druids of the Forest to join the Lyrenzia Foundation and will now begin a voting period to process this application.
You will get as soon as possible our answer.

---

Lyrenzia Foundation hat die Bewerbung um Aufnahme der Druiden des Waldes zur Kenntnis genommen. Wir werden uns nun zusammen setzen und darüber entscheiden, ob dem Antrag stattgegeben wird.
Ihr werdet so bald wie möglich unsere Antwort erhalten.

Draakon · Post by **Draakon** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:29 am

The will to dominate is ever present, the will to help others towards a better life is not. To create a government for the people is to create a government against them, to have the people create their own is to have anarchy.

Trying to proclaim tyranny cloaked in peoples wishes is to fail, just as leading people by telling them this is what they want is.

Trollsbane is lost in attempt after attempt to make it better for everyone, always looking for the most difficult way towards this. In truth it is so that if succesful it would surley be for the best but while it may be so failure means nothing. People will not abide by any laws unless they see fit, the only way to make them is by force and time after time striking down any resistance. Here is no will to get along, and even if there be tis no enough. A great leader is needed there is nothing else, I foresee a great battle in these lands where after one shall rule all and it shall be for the best no matter how people feel they will be better off. As it stands now one is better off living in the woods among monsters of great evil where it becomes clear who is your enemy and what must be done.
The one most prone to use simplicity combined with a determined mind is the one who will save us, this one will be a single person but not alone, never alone. Everthing old must be burnt and the ashes scattered before anything new can be built, the hearts of the people will follow the new leader by will or force. The people need an iron fist where nothing is given rather than a whole arm of flesh where everyone tries to rip the biggest piece.

Sir Giandor · Post by **Sir Giandor** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:35 am

Don´t criticize. You will see. This is the first united guild group to create a goverment to take off the anarchy.

Sir J. Giandor

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:39 am

Dear Drakantor

drakantor wrote:People will not abide by any laws unless they see fit, the only way to make them is by force and time after time striking down any resistance.

Have you seen any forces by bringing law to the people of Lyrenzia?
There are six guilds and their members, joining together and supporting these laws, two other guilds like to join with their members. And several people, not bound to a guild support this idea.
Including all these people, Lyrenzia has made a great success in bringing law to this people witout using any force and weapon and threat.
And others will follow, seeing the good side and the good acting for the town.
Force isn't the way, bringing laws. With forces, you only bring people against yourself. So you need much more power to enforce things.
Binding together in the will of changing things and inviting others to join in this process is the only way it will work in our town.

Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin
Councilor of Lyrenzia

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:44 am

runs after Aragon and says to him silently

It should be inviting, not invading. Just a little mistake but now it sounds all the other way around.

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:03 am

Cain, who died and made you God?

If you decide to arbitrarily ssset yourself up as rulesss without the peoplessss sssay then you are dictatorsss and will be treated asss such.

If you wisssh to make new lawsss, and I really hope you do, you will find a way to find out what the people want.

You forget one thing. I am not the one ssstarting this foundation or even a part of it, sssso it issss not my job to find out what the people want.

It is the foundationssss. And making lawsss arbitrarily isss not the way to do it.

I ssssee thissss asss yet anohter failed attempt unless you actually decide to do it right.

YOu sssay when the original law about town cassting wasss made there were not but 20 people in town. But people enforce that law. Ssso that isss your own anssswer to your own quessstion.

If people do not care to sssshow up and vote, then they don't care. And the people will accept the new lawsss made with the people'sss concent with the ssssame heartednesss asss the exisssting unwritten onessss.

But then you have the right to enforce them, not asss a dictratorship, but assss a government.

Again, quit assssking me how to determine who the people are, if you are to make the lawsss that isss for YOU to figure out. If you can't figure it out, then don't do thissss.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:55 pm

Thereadore wrote: If people do not care to sssshow up and vote, then they don't care.

Is that so? I don't remember the people deciding that. Now you have the right decide the people's thought and emotions if they don't show up when you tell them to?

Thereadore wrote: And the people will accept the new lawsss made with the people'sss concent with the ssssame heartednesss asss the exisssting unwritten onessss.

You decide how our hearts feels now? Who gave you the right to tell us how we should feel? Who gave you the right to tell us the conditions under which we will accept new laws?

My last two comments to those two quotes of yours is another example of me using a rhetorical question to try and explain to you yet again why "the people" can't make a decision right now.

Why don't you sit down and think carefully about it? It seems this is the only way that you will understand this, even though almost everyone else has already realized this long ago through the simple fact that "the people" has not been able to decide the law writing, government, etc. during all these years.

Thereadore wrote: If you decide to arbitrarily ssset yourself up as rulesss without the peoplessss sssay then you are dictatorsss and will be treated asss such.

So that means that you are a dictator. You are a dictator, just like us, and every other person. Don't you ever get tired of stating the obvious over and over again? Why can't you sit down and take a moment to think about what is the actual point that we don't agree on?

Right now the summary of the argument going on between me and you is......

YOU: You are a dictator and I have a problem with that.
ME: Yes, I am a dictator. So are you. So is everyone else
YOU: Don't deny you are a dictator. You are a dictator because...etc...etc
ME: I already said I am a dictator! You and everyone else are also dictators because you also do ...etc etc..
YOU: You are a dictator. Agree with me.
ME: I already agreed with you. What we are arguing about now is that you and everone else is also a dictator.

Now, that I've summarized it so obviously for you, do you think you've figured out what is that we are arguing about?

Thereadore wrote:And making lawsss arbitrarily isss not the way to do it.

You made laws arbitrarily and you tell others not to. You are a hypocrite.

Thereadore wrote: But then you have the right to enforce them, not asss a dictratorship, but assss a government.

If what you say is true, then next time someone tries to brutally put a dagger in your chest, don't stop him from killing you, because you have no right to stop him from killing you since he did not ask you to be his government. So if you infringe his freedom to kill you, then you are being a dictator.

Don't you get it?
You are a tyrant. You were a tyrant from the moment you stepped into Troll's Bane. You decided what was the town laws. You changed the laws as you see fit. You forced other people to believe the same laws that you do. You did all those things based on what YOU believed that other people believed was the law. You are a tyrant, just like me, just like everyone else. If you still can't figure out why this is true, then you need to learn to read.

You are so narrowminded and scared of being oppressed by others that you can't see that you are actually controlling and oppressing others everyday and they are doing the same to you everyday already. Now, you are so scared just because a large group of people are doing it in an organized and obvious way. You complain and accuse Lyrenzia of doing the same things that everybody in Troll's Bane has always done, only because this time it's so obvious that even someone as blind as you can see it.

Do you know what your problem is? Everybody drew one square and I drew a polygon that has 4 sides and 4 right angles with adjacent sides of different length. Then you accuse me of being the only one who drew a rectangle, just because you can't realize that a square is a rectangle.

Dyluck
Headmaster of the Magic Academy

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:19 pm

Dyluck wrote:
Thereadore wrote: If people do not care to sssshow up and vote, then they don't care.
Is that so? I don't remember the people deciding that. Now you have the right decide the people's thought and emotions if they don't show up when you tell them to?

I have jussst assss much to decide the people'sss wantss and emotionsss assss the foundation hasss. At leassst my way you would asssk them.

Dyluck wrote:
Thereadore wrote: And the people will accept the new lawsss made with the people'sss concent with the ssssame heartednesss asss the exisssting unwritten onessss.
You decide how our hearts feels now? Who gave you the right to tell us how we should feel? Who gave you the right to tell us the conditions under which we will accept new laws?

If sssomeone asssks you how you feel about a law and you sssay if you like it or not, who isss deciding, me or you?

Dyluck wrote:
Thereadore wrote: If you decide to arbitrarily ssset yourself up as rulesss without the peoplessss sssay then you are dictatorsss and will be treated asss such.
So that means that you are a dictator. You are a dictator, just like us, and every other person. Don't you ever get tired of stating the obvious over and over again? Why can't you sit down and take a moment to think about what is the actual point that we don't agree on?

Are you really sssuch a fool or do you jusssst act it?

I am not a dictator becaussse I do not make lawsss for othersss to follow. By me fighting a governement that the people do not agree with would make me a freedom fighter, or a rebel.

Dyluck wrote:Right now the summary of the argument going on between me and you is......

YOU: You are a dictator and I have a problem with that.
ME: Yes, I am a dictator. So are you. So is everyone else
YOU: Don't deny you are a dictator. You are a dictator because...etc...etc
ME: I already said I am a dictator! You and everyone else are also dictators because you also do ...etc etc..
YOU: You are a dictator. Agree with me.
ME: I already agreed with you. What we are arguing about now is that you and everone else is also a dictator.

Then oboiousssly you are asss ssstupid asss you sssound.

The argument isss:

YOU: We are going to make lawsss and make the people follow them.
ME: The people will only follow the lawsss if the people sssay they want the lawssss.
YOU: We are too ssstupid to figure out what the people want sssso we'll jussst make them arbitrarily.
ME: Then that makes you a dictatorssship and the people will fight you. Figure out how to do it.
YOU: We are too ssstupid to figure it out. We will jussst make them arbitarily
ME: Then you are a dictatorship, try it thissss way.
YOU: That way won't work. We are too ssstupid to figure it out. We will make the lawsss arbitrarily.[/quote]

Dyluck wrote:
Thereadore wrote:And making lawsss arbitrarily isss not the way to do it.
You made laws arbitrarily and you tell others not to. You are a hypocrite.

When did I ever make a law arbitrarily? I jussst know when I got to the town I wasss told that theessse were the accepted town lawsss and to follow them.

I enforce them asss I ssssee fit.

Dyluck wrote:
Thereadore wrote: But then you have the right to enforce them, not asss a dictratorship, but assss a government.
If what you say is true, then next time someone tries to brutally put a dagger in your chest, don't stop him from killing you, because you have no right to stop him from killing you since he did not ask you to be his government. So if you infringe his freedom to kill you, then you are being a dictator.

Obvoiusssly you do not underssstand lawssss or govenment, so why don't you go into the library and find a book on it and read about it? You talk about sssomething you know nothing about and it isss obvoiusss in your words.

Dyluck wrote:You are a tyrant. You were a tyrant from the moment you stepped into Troll's Bane. You decided what was the town laws. You changed the laws as you see fit. You forced other people to believe the same laws that you do. You did all those things based on what YOU believed that other people believed was the law. You are a tyrant, just like me, just like everyone else. If you still can't figure out why this is true, then you need to learn to read.

You are a fool. The only place I ever told anyone what the town lawsss were were here. I did not change the lawssss. And sssince I never told anyone what the town lawsss were, then I did not force them to believe them. And sssince you sssay I did thingsss I did not, this alsssso makesss you a lier.

Dyluck wrote:You are so narrowminded and scared of being oppressed by others that you can't see that you are actually controlling and oppressing others everyday and they are doing the same to you everyday already. Now, you are so scared just because a large group of people are doing it in an organized and obvious way. You complain and accuse Lyrenzia of doing the same things that everybody in Troll's Bane has always done, only because this time it's so obvious that even someone as blind as you can see it.

I have no problem with the way the town isss in enforcing their lawsss. None whatsssoever. And I even sssaid there ssshould be more lawsss. And they sssshould be written down. And if the peoeple agreed with theessse lawsss, they shoudl be enforced.

Sssso what you sssay here hasss nothing to do with fact. Are you really sssso thickheaded you can not sssse that?

Dyluck wrote:Dyluck
Headmaster of the Magic Academy

Ssssince you sssaid that you have clossssed the Magic Acadamy, you are lying again.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:55 pm

All of you just be quiet. There is no dictatorship going on, they are setting up a authoritarian government, where they expect the people to obey their laws.

((http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/20c-govt.htm gives a good explanation of different governments.))

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:21 pm

Exactly, Paul, and I have no problem with that, except with how they make new lawsss.

I will not be againsssst the foundation if they make new lawsss right. If they do not, then I am againssst them. Sssimple.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:25 pm

But if This lyerenzia, or whatever its called, ever lost favor with a great percentage of the population, they would shut down. That is the problem with an authoritarian government, you have to have favor with all the people all the time, but, as my grandfather told me:

you can please all the people some of the time
some of the people all the time
But not all the people all the time

I'm just going to sit back and watch this thing.

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:31 pm

But, if the lawss are written and agreed on, they ssshall live forever, with or without the foundation.

That isss what needsss to be done more than anything.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:33 pm

True, and also, is Korwin a human?

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:45 pm

Name the rules that The foundation have written down that are wrong and why are they wrong?

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:08 pm

The rule that allowssss casssting in town isss wrong. The rule isss no cassting in town unlesss you are defending yourssself.

They changed it without dissscussssion.

Caranthir the great · Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:12 pm

In spoken language it has always been 'No casting in town' -so perhaps you changed it?
*grins*
But, you have no right, you are not the people.

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:14 pm

Yesss, I agree, that is how it hassss been ssspoken.

But the foundation now sssays that people can cassst in town when the Foundation sssays they can, partiesss or ssssome ssssuch.

Wht givessss the foundation thisss right to sssset assside lawsss?

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:14 pm

Dear Thereadore

Your simple example of what the discussion between you and Dyluck is summed, shows me, that you havent yet understood, what Lyrenzia really is. Let me try it again, using your example.

Thereadore wrote:
The argument isss:

YOU: We are going to make lawsss and make the people follow them.
ME: The people will only follow the lawsss if the people sssay they want the lawssss.
YOU: We are too ssstupid to figure out what the people want sssso we'll jussst make them arbitrarily.
ME: Then that makes you a dictatorssship and the people will fight you. Figure out how to do it.
YOU: We are too ssstupid to figure it out. We will jussst make them arbitarily
ME: Then you are a dictatorship, try it thissss way.
YOU: That way won't work. We are too ssstupid to figure it out. We will make the lawsss arbitrarily.

Our arguemt is:
We are going to make laws and we will follow these laws and invite others to join Lyrenzia and follow these laws, too.
It isn't our goal to figure out, what people want. We invite people in Lyrenzia to work with us on the laws.
The guilds in Lyrenzia discuss in their forums the laws, the representatives of the guilds discuss in the Lyrenzia Council than these suggestions together, bringing the experience of many citiziens into it. And so there will be another law for the people in Lyrenzia.
By growing and joining Lyrenzia, people accept these laws as good and like to go on in working on good laws for a better future.
As you might see, your arguments doesn't fit. You are arguing against a Lyrenzia, that not our Lyrenzia is.

And by the way, the MA is open again. Have a look at their news.

Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin
Councilor of Lyrenzia

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:36 pm

How are the laws stated by Lyrenzia arbitrary, why do you not like them? Since you have already decided not to follow any of the laws I better put up this warning.
Danger
The lizardman known as Thereadore may do the following;
He may cast spells when totally unnessicary
He may engage in battle for no apparent reason
He may steal
He may recklessly destroy property
He may enter privately owned buildings without permission

Those are all the rules that have been layed down by Lyrenzia. Do you plan to violate them?

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:58 pm

Thereadore wrote:The rule that allowssss casssting in town isss wrong. The rule isss no cassting in town unlesss you are defending yourssself.

WRONG.
You think you know what the rules are? The Lyrenzia Foundation by itself is already proof of over 70 people who agree that casting "mes pen" to heal someone is allowed. How many people can you prove that they agree with you that mes pen is not allowed? Zero.

You don't know what the rules are. NOBODY KNOWS. Everybody only upholds what they THINK is the law when they THINK that a lot of other people also do.

Everytime someone upholds the law, what they are saying is "This is against the law because I think it is against the law, and because I think others think it is against the law, and unless I approve that I don't think those things, then it's against the law."

You're just so scared of being oppressed that you're in denial that everybody has actually been doing exactly what Lyrenzia is doing now. The only difference is that this is more obvious for you to see.

Don't you realize that yet? Open your damn eyes!

All you do is whine and whine about how things SHOULD be done but you can't open your narrow eyes enough to see the difference between what is the best way to do something and what REALITY actually allows right now.

You have never tried to do anything and all do you is talk talk talk about how to do something and think it's all perfect when you haven't even tried it yet. All you do is talk and write about how easy it is to do something that you never tried before and don't listen when others with experience tell you it can't be done.

"The people" can't decide or vote or something right now. Can't you open your eyes and see that? Why do you think "the people" hasn't written laws and made a government in all these years?

Dyluck
Headmaster of the Magic Academy

Thereadore · Post by **Thereadore** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:30 am

Ssssimple, becuase no body hasss bothered to try to figure out how to figure out what the people want.

If I wanted to, I could come up with waysss, asss I have stated, and make them work.

The fact issss, it issss not sssomething I care to do. Sssso I don't.

BUT, the foundation hasss decided to do thissss, so they need to do it right, or they will be attacked and they will be dessstroyed.

Incidently, I am not sscared of being oppressedd, because if sssomeone triesss to oppresss me I will fight them, and I am not afraid to fight.

Aragon, I have no problem with the foundation making lawssss for themsselvesss, but they ssstated any new lawsss they make they will make everyone obey, not jussst themssselvesss.

Korwin, the only law I do not agree with is ALLOWING magesss to cassst in town when the foundation sssaysss sssso. All the lawss you state I have obeyed, so your point is pointlesss.

And, yessss, if the mood fitsss me I may attack ssssuch magesss casssting in town, even though the foundation sssays it's okay, becaussse the foundation hasss to right to CHANGE the exisssting lawsss by it'sss ssself.