Magic discussion lolol oh no

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:37 pm

I never parry, dodge or block anything and I have 3 con. Also, fighters have armour. If you can name a pure mage (as in: not battle mage) that's actually gone out and pged parry etc. to the extent that they can actually block hits with their wand in a fight against a half decent fighter go right ahead.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:20 am

Mr. Cromwell wrote:
AlexRose wrote:You've just proved the point, Nathan. A master fighter is more than a match for a master mage. A fighter who's been ig a month or two like this guy's can't expect to beat mages considering the bulk of them have been ig for years.
That's not so simple, though. As Po-Pellandria surprisingly (altough I presume inadvertently) begun to point out in a part of his rant, it's actually far easier and more beneficial for a mage to gain proficiency in fighting (and thus gain a degree of melee protection) than it is for a fighter to even gain basic defence against magic. Before Po-Athian jumps here to point out that warriors need simply to put in more to willpower; Warriors have much wider and diverse stat requirements as it is in comparison to mages (6vs3?). Hell, if the warriors start investing any more stats into willpower, soon some of the current uberfighters would be able to become battlemages.

Personally, I find it a bit silly that I can drag a dummy character with minimum physical stats and NO relevant combat skills, in cloth, to fight a troll warrior and achieve a 20% block & dodge rate and endure some 20 attacks. Whereas Crommy is fighting for his life every time a Troll shaman spawns next to him, even though his combined magic stats are probably at par with the combined physical stats of the dummy char.

alright here i am to put my foot in your a$$ Crommy. thanks for waiting.

As far as mages gaining melee defense...thats arguable. I know someone who has a mage with 80 parry and no stats to back that parry. I'd likely still beat the jebus out of him rather easily. in the end the mage lacks the constitution to live through long fights. the massive problem right now is that swords vs unclothed+low con people aren't doing enough damage

And in actuality an uberfighter really only needs to balance 4 stats majorly, with your constitution being more marginal (since you can eat great food and gain a +2). people seem to believe i think that all those uber fighters have maxes in two or more stats..when in truth most of them probably just have the primary attribute for their weapon maxed and the rest lower then that.

Again the real problem i see here is that at the lowest levels melee does rediculously low damage vs unarmored/low con individuals. As opposed to low range magical monsters who do ridiculous damage (alot more then any mage with equal spells, mage ra kel doesn't compare to that 1/3rd life hitting monster verison) to anyone, which includes mages with low magic resistance, the only difference is the mage if trained enough can heal his or her wounds and thus isn't sent running to the cross every time. With some potions a fighter could possibly emulate the same thing, but potions aren't very easy to get now a days.

Tanistian_Kanea · Post by **Tanistian_Kanea** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:42 am

so make magic npc's weaker.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:04 pm

What'd be the point of their existence then? Some NPCs which don't do any damage and have 3 con, and solely exist so people can pg magic res?

Tanistian_Kanea · Post by **Tanistian_Kanea** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:24 am

AlexRose wrote:What'd be the point of their existence then? Some NPCs which don't do any damage and have 3 con, and solely exist so people can pg magic res?

just seems that when you have the defence required and it still nerfs you in 3 hits is a little overpowered, but it might be that strong of a creature. troll shamans just don't sound that strong to me. never fought one.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:30 am

Tanistian_Kanea wrote:
AlexRose wrote:What'd be the point of their existence then? Some NPCs which don't do any damage and have 3 con, and solely exist so people can pg magic res?
just seems that when you have the defence required and it still nerfs you in 3 hits is a little overpowered, but it might be that strong of a creature. troll shamans just don't sound that strong to me. never fought one.

All i have to say is the idiot trying to build magic resistance off of ANY shaman monster derseves what he's getting. They are supposed to be about mid-range stregnth casters. it's be like a newbie fighter trying to start off fighting a ogre or a troll warrior, sure he has the attributes for it, but his low skill means he's still going to get beat bad.

Tanistian_Kanea · Post by **Tanistian_Kanea** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:42 am

when i said defence, i meant atts, skill and armor (if there is anything that helps). which is it what it sounded like as described above, by you athian. you also said the monsters spells are almost uncomparable to player spells of the same, which seems wrong to me, however there could be some explanation for it in which case i would like to hear it.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:29 am

Tanistian_Kanea wrote:when i said defence, i meant atts, skill and armor (if there is anything that helps). which is it what it sounded like as described above, by you athian. you also said the monsters spells are almost uncomparable to player spells of the same, which seems wrong to me, however there could be some explanation for it in which case i would like to hear it.

Maybe you would like to hear it but i don't think the Dev's really owe you any explanations over the games they create and allow you to play. Whatever they decided at the moment they created the NPC's is what we've had for years now

Just as we have weak, medium and powerful melee monsters we have these same thing in magical monsters.

Shaman monsters i would equate to being roughly as powerful a mage of a middle degree of training. So we're talking about mages able to cast RA KEL QWAN and so forth. When an idiot with no resistance skill runs face first into an npc of that skill level of course they are going to take massive damage. There is no whining when you try to take on something obviously more powerful then you.

Where the big difference is is in the low monsters as I had said before

As opposed to low range magical monsters who do ridiculous damage (alot more then any mage with equal spells, mage ra kel doesn't compare to that 1/3rd life hitting monster verison) to anyone, which includes mages with low magic resistance

if i come ig with my bright yellow commotio and cast a low end spell against your character, you would probably take at most 1/8th of loss to your health bar. If a white skeletion (one of the weakest casters) did the same, you would lose roughly 1/3rd of your health.

SHAMANS as i said above (and will keep repeating until you get it into your skull) are weak casters.

pretty self explainatory though

Tanistian_Kanea · Post by **Tanistian_Kanea** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:07 am

which just brings me back to a WEAK caster should not be able to outpower someone with magic stats and yellow skill, by what sounds like almost 3x. it just doesn't make sense.

Gabriel Lylth · Post by **Gabriel Lylth** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:11 am

You don't exactly see them spamming spells at you. So with damage over time, they're probably doing MUCH less damage.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:33 pm

Actually sometimes npcs decide to do a spellspam if some other options are blocked off, happened to me sometimes anyway.