Racial perks

[orgis]

Halflings: Bonus to cooking and farming / Get hungry faster than other races (so they can eat a lot and become tubby)

ohh I can just see my wee halfer finishing harvesting... then eating the whole lot!

[1d20]

c`mon give us that elvish firefly lantern...((honey rechargeable lantern))
those orcish bonecarving tools...((carryable alternative for -anvil- creating basic weaponry like simple spears or knives))
this yummy goblin meat skewer...((carryable alternative to smoking oven))
and finally those meat dishes in shape of fruits...
and vegetable dishes in shape of animals also!!1!

YES! Illarion needs some creativity, not just typical every day MMORPG items and monsters. ;(

[orgis]

those orcish bonecarving tools...((carryable alternative for -anvil- creating basic weaponry like simple spears or knives))

I like the sound of that, though we'd ned bones first and I don't think other than the skulls we got alot of them

[Rekarafi]

You could get bones by using a sicle/woodcutters axe wit a skeleton laying on the ground (static item)

[orgis]

Then im all for it

[Estralis Seborian]

so just take attributes that are high and make the max 1 higher, take the ones that are low 1 lower. or something like that. *light bulb goes off above head* I have an idea.

I understand this as "redesign the attribute ranges of player races". I am curious about your concrete ideas. We have nine player races and eight attributes each, 84 attribute points to distribute. So, a concrete proposal looks like this:

Human:

STR: 4-19
AGI: 3-18
CON: 3-18
DEX: 3-18
INT: 3-18
PER: 3-18
WIL: 4-19
ESS: 3-18

This is the current state, I'd prefer smaller ranges that encourage setting reasonable values instead of maxing out attributes. Note that this requires that high minimum attributes for certain actions have to be removed from the game (e.g. magic).

[Tanistian_Kanea]

so just take attributes that are high and make the max 1 higher, take the ones that are low 1 lower. or something like that. *light bulb goes off above head* I have an idea.

I understand this as "redesign the attribute ranges of player races". I am curious about your concrete ideas. We have nine player races and eight attributes each, 84 attribute points to distribute. So, a concrete proposal looks like this:

Human:

STR: 4-19
AGI: 3-18
CON: 3-18
DEX: 3-18
INT: 3-18
PER: 3-18
WIL: 4-19
ESS: 3-18

This is the current state, I'd prefer smaller ranges that encourage setting reasonable values instead of maxing out attributes. Note that this requires that high minimum attributes for certain actions have to be removed from the game (e.g. magic).

guess i have to don't i?
Ok first. humans stay as is. lets face. "Average" in any fantasy setting is human. human is norm. human is average. human is well balanced. ext... i don't see reason to change this here.

"J'low"
humans have an additional 58 points,
max points are
84

Dwarves:
Jeff Foxsworthy
Before

STR: 5-20
AGI: 2-17
CON: 5-20
DEX:2-17
INT: 2-17
PER:4-19
WIL:3-19
ESS:1-16

After

STR: 5-21
AGI: 1-15
CON: 5-21
DEX: 2-17
INT:2-17
PER: 3-18
WIL: 5-21
ESS: 1-15

Halfling
Fuzzy Waffles
Before

STR: 1-15
AGI: 5-20
CON: 1-16
DEX: 5-20
INT: 3-18
PER: 5-20
WIL:3-18
ESS:2-17

After

STR: 1-14
AGI: 5-21
CON:1-15
DEX: 5-21
INT:3-18
PER:5-20
WIL:3-18
ESS:2-17

Additional points 59
Max points 84

Elf
Marmaduke
before

STR: 3-19
AGI: 4-19
CON:2-18
DEX: 4-19
INT: 4-20
PER:4-19
WIL:3-18
ESS:4-20

After

STR: 3-18
AGI: 3-19
CON:2-17
DEX: 3-18
INT: 5-21
PER: 4-19
WIL:3-18
ESS: 5-21

Elves where tuff, but you have to give slack somewhere for something else to be better.
Orc
Gargolian
Before

STR: 4-19
AGI: 3-18
CON:4-19
DEX: 3-18
INT:2-17
PER:3-18
WIL:3-18
ESS:2-17

After

STR: 6-22
AGI: 3-18
CON:5-21
DEX: 2-17
INT:1-14
PER:3-18
WIL:2-17
ESS:2-17

Lizard
Butch Casedy
Before

STR: 4-19
AGI: 4-19
CON: 4-19
DEX: 4-19
INT: 2-17
PER:2-17
WIL:3-18
ESS:2-17

After

STR: 5-20
AGI: 4-19
CON: 6-22
DEX: 2-16
INT:2-17
PER:1-16
WIL:3-18
ESS:2-17

Please keep in mind a couple things.

This is meant to increase numbers beyond and below human.

Sometimes the decisions where difficult but i had to make them. I did so thinking out which attribute does for ROLEPLAY reasons (a lizard has claws, this has to make it difficult to hold things = bad dexterity, or orcs speak like "Joo nub hab to do dat", sorry you speak like that (and most do) you do not seem to intelligent). I did not care at all about the technical aspects. I used my knowledge of how these races are described in illarion and if this did not give me enough information i used common discriptions of these races from my general knowledge collected from several sources.

I did not include the special races as at least the fairy is already done, as well it seems in gnome (to a degree) and i have never applied for goblin.

I play the race with likely the MOST attribute differences so don't come screaming to me that this will make your character suck because the attributes are part of the reason i play fae. I like that they have weaknesses and strengths.

This is a first draft. If you like the idea at this time I will put more effort into balancing. the abilities. To keep it simple all i did is for everyone 1 i raised 1 lowered another. This is not perfect but it gives you a better understanding of what I mean with this idea. I would like some of the mins raised/lowered accordingly but would like others opinions (as i suspect you all would) on these matters.

Tanistian.

Edit: Side note, the names underneath the races are for Humor. It's what i named my characters in order to see the min/max stats. I like Fuzzy Waffles.

[Olaf Tingvatn]

or orcs speak like "Joo nub hab to do dat", sorry you speak like that (and most do) you do not seem to intelligent).

17 max is still a high inteligence for an orc. 'You' try and talking like an inteligent person with tusks in your mouth, and 'some' people RP their orc to be stoopid..urhm i mean stupid. if i meet and orc that says "greetings, how are you on this most wonderfull day?" instead of "greeba, haow yuu beh?" i think two things

1. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOB!!

2. well..'someone' has maxed out their inteligence. or just wants to RP a flower orc or being highly inteligeeent.


but you know..i wont complain with how the stats thingy are right now. and yes i maxed out the "fighting type of character" stats so that he would be good at "smashin staff"... and now my brain went empty..urgh..yeah my two cents as they say>,<

[orgis]

I wouldn't really complain about the orc thing pal. The orcs have faith in moshran, why would they need to be smart when they ahve a kick ass god behind their back?

The only ones I think might get annoyed from that is the chiefs or shamans... mianly orc shamans becuase they are the brains of the orcs in most cases

[Estralis Seborian]

I also spent a minute on this and here is my basic draft for the classical player races.

Human (maximum boredom)

STR: 5-15
AGI: 5-15
CON: 5-15
DEX: 5-15
INT: 5-15
PER: 5-15
WIL: 5-15
ESS: 5-15

Dwarf (tough bullheads)

STR: 7-17 +
AGI: 1-11 --
CON: 9-19 ++
DEX: 5-15 0
INT: 3-13 -
PER: 3-13 -
WIL: 7-17 +
ESS: 5-15 0

Halfling (nimble cowards)

STR: 1-11 --
AGI: 7-17 +
CON: 3-13 -
DEX: 9-19 ++
INT: 5-15 0
PER: 5-15 0
WIL: 3-13 -
ESS: 7-17 +

Elf (thin smartasses)

STR: 3-13 -
AGI: 7-17 +
CON: 1-11 --
DEX: 5-15 0
INT: 9-19 ++
PER: 3-13 -
WIL: 7-17 +
ESS: 5-15 0

Lizard (swift predators)

STR: 5-15 0
AGI: 9-19 ++
CON: 5-15 0
DEX: 7-17 +
INT: 3-13 -
PER: 7-17 +
WIL: 1-11 --
ESS: 3-13 -

Orc (brute bastards)

STR: 9-19 ++
AGI: 7-17 +
CON: 7-17 +
DEX: 5-15 0
INT: 1-11 --
PER: 5-15 0
WIL: 3-13 -
ESS: 3-13 -

The races have clear differences and the same old maxed out attributes won't work.

Note: This is not compatible to current Illarion due to the "maxing attitude" and arcane (tr/m)agic.

[Llama]

Why do lizards have low essence? When they live in temple cities and are the result of a goddess [censored]ing a human?

I really like this idea to be honest, having large differences will make things unique - as long as there isn't some 'golden formula' which works best and everything else is inferior-to-matt things.

[Estralis Seborian]

Why do lizards have low essence?

There is no 'why'. Feel free to suggest another distribution, this is just a draft. I consider ESS as an attribute for magical defense and gave it a small minus because I felt like. What I think is important: The current range of 15 for attributes yells for maxing out individual attributes, resulting in all those maxed out fighters with the vision of moles and the willpower of lumber. A range of 10, with much more pronounced differences between the races, could yield much more interesting characters.

Lizard (swift predators)

STR: 5-15 0
AGI: 9-19 ++
CON: 5-15 0
DEX: 7-17 +
INT: 3-13 -
PER: 7-17 +
WIL: 1-11 --
ESS: 3-13 -

[Llama]

I would assume essence is critically important to the priest system which will come out sometime in 2105 - so I'd assume a culture that bases a lot on gods would have a good essence.

Lizard

STR: 5-15 0
AGI: 9-19 ++
CON: 5-15 0
DEX: 7-15 0
INT: 3-13 -
PER: 7-15 -
WIL: 1-11 --
ESS: 3-19 ++

Would be an example of what I'd think a lizard should be - if we take essence to be important to Templars and priests

or

Lizard

STR: 5-15 0
AGI: 9-19 ++
CON: 5-15 0
DEX: 7-15 0
INT: 3-13 -
PER: 7-17 +
WIL: 1-11 --
ESS: 3-17 +

Would be a more balanced 'blessed hunter'

[Retlak]

I made an Orc once with 19 constitution, 19 strength, 18 dexterity, 18 perception and 2 - 4 for everything else.

It was ridiculous, pissed me off as soon as I stepped on rocky terrain.

[Aust]

These atrib changes are bullshit, and would not make the races any more interesting. They would simply make elven warriors, for instance, exitinct, because no-one wants to waste 2 extra atrib points on non combat atribs (compared to humans. It'd be a lot more compared to orcs for example), AND be stuck with 13 strength and 11 const. Honestly, this would be reason to leave the game for anyone who has an elven warrior as main char.

[Estralis Seborian]

You are always free to propose something better. This is the proposal board. So, propose other numbers. Anything else does not help.

[Llama]

These atrib changes are bullshit, and would not make the races any more interesting. They would simply make elven warriors, for instance, exitinct, because no-one wants to waste 2 extra atrib points on non combat atribs (compared to humans. It'd be a lot more compared to orcs for example), AND be stuck with 13 strength and 11 const. Honestly, this would be reason to leave the game for anyone who has an elven warrior as main char.

You don't need much strenght to wield a bow or use a rapier or a dagger you know.

[Athian]

I propose we change nothing until the systems of magic and fighting better support lower attributes.

I think the attribute changes are not going to enhance any of the races. it seems like an unneeded alteration that isn't going to have any effect that distingushes races but rather will only effect which race players pick to play a 'class' (i.e. pick the higher dex race for crafter, because your elven crafter might suck)

I will note that unlike the other races elven attributes have little downsides, even compared to humans they merely seem like a enhanced version of the same model.

I think maybe minor perks for races might be better. Like the way lizards can fish without tools. Maybe Elves are capable of collecting some types of herbs without the need for tools. Halfings might get away with eating various "unhealthy" foods without causing a decrease in there diets. Humans might tire less from crafting orientated skills (anything that produces an item). Those are some examples of my idea of what a racial perk is like, as opposed to merely starter attribute changes

[Tanistian_Kanea]

I propose we change nothing until the systems of magic and fighting better support lower attributes.

I think the attribute changes are not going to enhance any of the races. it seems like an unneeded alteration that isn't going to have any effect that distingushes races but rather will only effect which race players pick to play a 'class' (i.e. pick the higher dex race for crafter, because your elven crafter might suck)

I will note that unlike the other races elven attributes have little downsides, even compared to humans they merely seem like a enhanced version of the same model.

I think maybe minor perks for races might be better. Like the way lizards can fish without tools. Maybe Elves are capable of collecting some types of herbs without the need for tools. Halfings might get away with eating various "unhealthy" foods without causing a decrease in there diets. Humans might tire less from crafting orientated skills (anything that produces an item). Those are some examples of my idea of what a racial perk is like, as opposed to merely starter attribute changes

i proposed once (and this would fix the, choose orc for fighter because it's better) that you remove the numbers and only have a slider bar
so you wouldn't really know what your character gets. as for the changes, i don't think it matters when the fighting system and magic system come out. this is something that can be done quick. it is permenant, so why put off what can be done now. i will redo them all, changing things around again, so that everything is more equal, and lizards have a little more ess, and one version that doesn't, since this seems to be something that is in debate. remember, this is meant to make noticable diferences ig. right now, there is none, because "even" or properlly averaged att settings have most things at about 15, which means every common race can currently have the exact same settings, this is meant to change that. Trust me, makes rp way more interesting.

[1d20]

I propose we have a "quiz". Players answer a couple of questions to define their character.. and depending on what they answered, they get a set of attributes.. hard to explain..

[Nikolaus]

Morrowind!!

[AlexRose]

For the guy who's always naysaying every proposal and saying he wants originality in illarion that's an awfully exactly-the-same-as-morrowind idea there.

[Alli Zelos]

It wouldn't really make a difference... People would just answer questions based on what they think will give them the attributes they want. And when they don't get those attributes, they'll delete the char, remake it, and try again.

[AlexRose]

The point is to make it easier for players to make chars, not to stop people building uberchars.

[Llama]

The point is to make it easier for players to make chars, not to stop people building uberchars.

Because a slider is difficult to use?

The best way for people to make chars is to put a large , clear explanation of what each attribute does. Currently its pretty much like mystery meat.

Does strenght effect using daggers? In games like DnD they do give a bonus to damage. In other games like Eldar scrolls, they don't. Hrm.

Seriously, less mystery meat attributes please. Why don't we replace all skills with "Skill A" and we just let the player work out what each letter represents?

Sorry for the continued derial.

[Tanistian_Kanea]

A compilation of the changes. For viewers ease I have put all variations in so you don't have to scroll around this thread.

-----Humans-----

Origional:
STR: 4-19
AGI: 3-18
CON: 3-18
DEX: 3-18
INT: 3-18
PER: 3-18
WIL: 4-19
ESS: 3-18

Add Points: 58

Estralis':
Human (maximum boredom)
STR: 5-15
AGI: 5-15
CON: 5-15
DEX: 5-15
INT: 5-15
PER: 5-15
WIL: 5-15
ESS: 5-15
Add Points: ?

Mine 2:
STR: 5-18
AGI: 5-18
CON: 5-18
DEX: 5-18
INT: 5-18
PER: 5-18
WIL: 5-18
ESS: 5-18

Add Points: 44

-----Dwarfs-----

Before:

STR: 5-20
AGI: 2-17
CON: 5-20
DEX:2-17
INT: 2-17
PER:4-19
WIL:3-19
ESS:1-16

Add Points: 60

After:

STR: 5-21
AGI: 1-15
CON: 5-21
DEX: 2-17
INT:2-17
PER: 3-18
WIL: 5-21
ESS: 1-15

Add Points: 60

Estralis'
Dwarf (tough bullheads)

STR: 7-17 +
AGI: 1-11 --
CON: 9-19 ++
DEX: 5-15 0
INT: 3-13 -
PER: 3-13 -
WIL: 7-17 +
ESS: 5-15 0

Mine 2:

STR: 7-20
AGI: 2-15
CON: 8-21
DEX: 4-17
INT:4-17
PER: 5-18
WIL: 8-21
ESS: 2-15

Add Points: 44

-----Halfling-----

Before:

STR: 1-15
AGI: 5-20
CON: 1-16
DEX: 5-20
INT: 3-18
PER: 5-20
WIL:3-18
ESS:2-17

Add Points: 59

After:

STR: 1-14
AGI: 5-21
CON:1-15
DEX: 5-21
INT:3-18
PER:5-20
WIL:3-18
ESS:2-17

Add Points: 59

Estralis'
Halfling (nimble cowards)

STR: 1-11 --
AGI: 7-17 +
CON: 3-13 -
DEX: 9-19 ++
INT: 5-15 0
PER: 5-15 0
WIL: 3-13 -
ESS: 7-17 +

Mine 2:

STR: 1-14
AGI: 8-21
CON:2-15
DEX: 8-21
INT:5-18
PER:7-20
WIL:5-18
ESS:4-17

Add Points: 44

-----Elf-----

Before:

STR: 3-19
AGI: 4-19
CON:2-18
DEX: 4-19
INT: 4-20
PER:4-19
WIL:3-18
ESS:4-20

After:

STR: 3-18
AGI: 3-19
CON:2-17
DEX: 3-18
INT: 5-21
PER: 4-19
WIL:3-18
ESS: 5-21

Add Points : 56

Estralis'
Elf (thin smartasses)

STR: 3-13 -
AGI: 7-17 +
CON: 1-11 --
DEX: 5-15 0
INT: 9-19 ++
PER: 3-13 -
WIL: 7-17 +
ESS: 5-15 0

Mine 2:


STR: 3-16
AGI: 6-19
CON:2-15
DEX: 5-18
INT: 8-21
PER: 4-17
WIL:5-18
ESS: 7-20

Add Points: 44

-----Lizards-----

Before:

STR: 4-19
AGI: 4-19
CON: 4-19
DEX: 4-19
INT: 2-17
PER:2-17
WIL:3-18
ESS:2-17

After:

STR: 5-20
AGI: 4-19
CON: 6-22
DEX: 2-16
INT:2-17
PER:1-16
WIL:3-18
ESS:2-17

Add Points: 59

Estralis'
Lizard (swift predators)

STR: 5-15 0
AGI: 9-19 ++
CON: 5-15 0
DEX: 7-17 +
INT: 3-13 -
PER: 7-17 +
WIL: 1-11 --
ESS: 3-13 -

Mine 2:

STR: 6-19
AGI: 7-20
CON: 8-21
DEX: 3-16
INT:2-15
PER:5-18
WIL:4-17
ESS:5-18

Add Points: 44

-----Orc-----

Before:

STR: 4-19
AGI: 3-18
CON:4-19
DEX: 3-18
INT:2-17
PER:3-18
WIL:3-18
ESS:2-17

After

STR: 6-22
AGI: 3-18
CON:5-21
DEX: 2-17
INT:1-14
PER:3-18
WIL:2-17
ESS:2-17

Add Points: 60

Estralis'
Orc (brute bastards)

STR: 9-19 ++
AGI: 7-17 +
CON: 7-17 +
DEX: 5-15 0
INT: 1-11 --
PER: 5-15 0
WIL: 3-13 -
ESS: 3-13 -

Mine 2:

STR: 9-22
AGI: 5-18
CON:8-21
DEX: 4-17
INT:1-14
PER:5-18
WIL:4-17
ESS:4-17

Add Points: 44

-----Notes-----
This is a second draft. I fully expect another, with fewer alterations I hope.

All now have the same Additional Points to add.

All Attributes have a range of 13 points.

Some races where changed more then others, due to previous stats.

Races are becoming unique.

Everyone is still able to use magic, it might just be rarer in some races.

@Estralis, Can I get the stats for the 3 special ones as well. I am not sure yet what sort of changes I wish to make, however I think some balancing may be in order.

[Aust]

You don't need much strenght to wield a bow or use a rapier or a dagger you know.

So you want to limit elven fighters to rapiers and daggers...? Why? And what about the elven fighters already made? You still havent answered my remark about elven fighters wasting a lot of points on Essence will and int.

Your chars have shit atribs, fine, but don't enforce them on everyone else.

@Estralis: Sure, Im saying im against the proposal of changing the atribute limits. Thats helpful.

[Llama]

You don't need much strenght to wield a bow or use a rapier or a dagger you know.

So you want to limit elven fighters to rapiers and daggers...?

Because for some reason when I imagine a thin, tall and fragile being, I always imagine them carrying a giant waraxe in one hand and a warhammer in the other.

Must be a cultural difference.

[Aust]

You don't need much strenght to wield a bow or use a rapier or a dagger you know.

So you want to limit elven fighters to rapiers and daggers...?

Because for some reason when I imagine a thin, tall and fragile being, I always imagine them carrying a giant waraxe in one hand and a warhammer in the other.

Must be a cultural difference.

Sure, so we will all adapt to how you perceive elves? There is no reason why elves would be weaker than humans. Originally elves were demi gods, acording to Norse Mythology, so perhaps we should just give them 200 atribs points to go around?

[Taiah]

I always thought elves were stronger then humans.. afterall they live longer. Tall, willowy but strong. Maybe it would be better to look at racial changes after the big update?