Trollsbane Government//Regierung für Trollsbane

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:03 pm

I look forward to getting Enlightened.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:11 pm

I was thinking that maybe, if we want a king... its just that, whats an effective king without loyal supporters. I am positive this has been said before, but i am certain that before we find a king or queen, someone with a big army will come and declare their own government, if you see what i am saying.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:25 pm

A king has different disadvantages. In the first way, the dependency of everything to a single person.

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:27 pm

A government will never be made untill there is a crisis, and then it will be too late. Accept it because it happens with all the good idea's, it will be forgotten and never achieve reality.

Or break the custom, stop debating and act!

Besides, we need a tyranny before we can have a monarchy, a monarchy before we can have a democracy.

Take it a step at a time, the foundation needs to be laid first.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:30 pm

Yes Guingalan, thats pretty much what i was trying to say.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:45 am

Guingalan wrote:Besides, we need a tyranny before we can have a monarchy, a monarchy before we can have a democracy.

Take it a step at a time, the foundation needs to be laid first.

Dear Guingalan,

but to set up a tyranny, you need the powers to do so. And this would be the next question. Who has enough powers to proceed with a tyranny in Illarion. Trying to do this, without a basis of people supporting him, wouldn't work.
And therefore, he would need the old guilds to support him.
Or do you think, they will sit on the floor and watch someone declaring himself as tyrann?
As you said, the first step would be to lay a good foundation, trying to find enough people, who would like to support him.
For this, I think, an oligarchie would fit much more to Illarion. About five respected people, representing each one of the old guilds, together in a council. So they will have the support of their guildmembers and with that a good foundation.

Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin

Sir Giandor · Post by **Sir Giandor** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:57 am

(( darf hier eigentlich nicht schreiben, weil ich im RP nicht anwesend bin, vielleicht will der ein oder andere trotzdem das hier mal durchlesen http://www.illarion.org/community/forum ... tart=0url]. ))

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:17 pm

But what about the new players? I am sure they would at least want someone to represent them.

Otherwise a very ugly war may follow, between the old and the new.

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:38 pm

There would only be a war if the new people decide to make one out of it. If they cannot trust these old guilds how can they trust the new ones, who run around taking care of things in their own ways?

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 3:02 pm

A lot of governing structures developed when people started to follow the decisions of those who knew best what is good for their folk, because they had most experience. So beside the strongest, who could defend the people, the oldest and wisest got into charge of things.
How could a newly arrived person know what is good for Troll's Bane better then someone who lives here for many years? Any government which might be introduced here will care for them as well as for everyone. If someone is not content with the way they reign then he might raise his voice and it will be considered if there is a way to make things better then they are.
I don't think something like a war between old and newly arrived citicens will ever happen, because nobody ever forced them to come in the first place. They put their feet on our island out of their free will, and we welcome them. But they have no right to complain about the government and start a war to change it. If they don't like the way our town is reigned, they are always free to leave and look for a place which suits their needs better.

Adano Eles

Knight of the Grey Rose
Student of the Khana Len; Apprentice of the Great Temple of the Five and Eleven

Sir Giandor · Post by **Sir Giandor** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 3:23 pm

Deutsche Version weiter unten.
"Circle of Wisdom"
Old etablished Orders / Guilds should have stable seats and the other free seats should be vote for a periode.
The chairmanship should change after a while.
He will lead and pronounce the judgement.
Not every Guild should give a Judge.
Every race should have a Judge, including a veto-right.

1. Dwarfs
2. Lizard
3. Orcs
4. Halflings
5. Human
6. Elbs

There should be two neutral constant Judges, I think for the Grey Orders, cause they are neutral. But they wont have a Veto!

7. Order of the Grey Light
8. The Grey Rose

4 more Guildsman should be vote in a periode of 4 months. One of them will have the presidency for a month.

9. Group A
10. Group B
11. Group C
12. Group D

A Judge of the races could not be in a Order or Guild.
And no Judge can be a part of more guilds.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Kreis der Weisen"
Alte etablierte Orden/Gilden sollten feste Richtersitze haben und die anderen freien Plätze periodisch gewählt werden.
Der Vorsitz würde stetig wechseln.
Der Oberste übernimmt die Leitung und spricht das Urteil aus.
Außerdem kann nicht jede Gilde einen Richter stellen. Die Zahl sollte festgesetzt sein.
Die Orden und Gilden müssten Richter stellen, damit jede Gruppe möglichst vertreten ist.
Es sollte aus jedem Volk einen Richter geben, die jeweils ein Vetorecht haben.
Also:
1.Zwergenvolk
2.Echsen
3.Orks
4.Halblinge
5.Menschen
6.Elfen

Es sollten 2 neutrale stetige Richter sein, ich schlage Vertreter der beiden grauen Orden vor.(Grau ist ja die Farbe der Neutralität)
denen jedoch kein Vetorecht gegeben wird.

7. Orden des Grauen Lichts
8. Ritter der Grauen Rose

und es sollten 4 weitere Gildenvertreter abwechselnd auf je 4 Monate gewählt werden.Jeden Monat hätte einer dieser den Vorsitz.
9. x
10. y
11. z
12. xyz

Natürlich darf ein Richter für die Volksrasse nicht in einem Orden sein.
Ebenfalls darf kein Richter, der einen Orden vertritt in einem zweiten Orden sein.

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:02 pm

If they don't like the way our town is reigned, they are always free to leave and look for a place which suits their needs better.

Of course they are free to leave, but why should they? They will not leave, if they do not like it they will try to change it in what ways possible. And we all know that will be with violence.

And besides, you will always have the anarchists and the freedom fighters that will fight to bring down a government.

I am not threatening you of suggesting I personally plan to take this course of action, I am merly warning you of the concequences this government will bring.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:13 pm

Giandor, eure Idee hat einiges an Vernunft. Etwas ähnliches wird getan werden, und ist schon in Planung. Setzt euch mit mir in Verbindung deswegen.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:25 pm

I am sceptical about the idea to give veto rights to each race. This way every decision which could hold disadvantages for single races could be blocked.
And it is a fact that the needs of lizardmen and hobbits, elves and orcs, humans and dwarfs differ more or less much. I fear that such a government would be unable to make any clear decisions.

Adano Eles

Knight of the Grey Rose
Student of the Khana Len; Apprentice of the Great Temple of the Five and Eleven

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:37 pm

That kind of governement would in most cases leave a whole race unsatisfied, and a unsatified race is much, much worse than unsatisfied group of people.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:34 pm

The idea in this way, cannot be used. But in a different way... this will have to be decided in the near future. And it will be.

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:32 pm

Guingalan, what are these so call new players that you are talking about? Have you hit your head? You might want to think a bit more carefully about what you're saying.

There will not always be anarchists and freedom fighters who always want to bring down the government. That's only an assumption. Even if it were true, then it would only be something that is inevitable for every government to deal with anyways.

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:45 pm

Is not what you are saying an asumption?

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:00 am

You said " will always" which assumes it's guaranteed to happen. He said "will not always" which means it's not guaranteed.

And It is not true that people will always try to change things in the government through violence, especially when the government is well formed to allow the voice of the people to be heard. Your warning only represents a worse case scenario possibility.

Sir Giandor · Post by **Sir Giandor** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 2:37 pm

It was just an idea from myself. Its not my right to decide those things. I only that this would be a good added piece.

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:48 pm

Its still an asumption, besides, you should always prepare for the worst, because then anything that happens you will be prepared for.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:22 pm

Being that every race has different needs, why do we need a counsel for all the races combined? Can't we just do what the dwarves do and have a government for each seperate race?

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 7:35 pm

We are all living in one town, and everyone who lives in Troll's Bane is connected to all the others who live here. Tialdin is king of Silverbrand only, ruler over a dwarven territory with dwarven people.
We cannot establish seperate governments for the separate races as there is only one town to reign, and this can only be done by one single government.
If any race builds its own town in the future, this town will be theirs and be ruled by them alone.

Adano Eles

Knight of the Grey Rose
Student of the Khana Len; Apprentice of the Great Temple of the Five and Eleven