Cult of the Balor De'Morte

Slazf Kruvkva · Post by **Slazf Kruvkva** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:44 am

This is for anyone who read the guildpage ( http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... hp?t=30296 ) for the 'Knights of the Temple' and want to support a cult instead of another knighthood.

Cult of the Balor De'Morte!

The 'Death Balor' is a powerful minion (greater demon) of Bjolmur who's favor the cult is trying to gain. The belief of the cult is that once Bjolmur and Moshran are pleased enough (and given power by the fanatic praise) -which is seeked out by priests-, that the Death Balor will be summoned into reality, to wreak ultimate chaos and slaughter -as a gift to the cult for their obedience, the location of the slaughter will be chosen upon by the council -hopefully a Seahorse full of nobles. . The guild is composed of both powerful antipaladins and priests of Bjolmur.

((the idea of the Death Balor is just to create a focus for fanaticism, and also then we dont get in trouble for having a name including a god. too many normal church and knight guilds anyway))

There are two priests and three antipaladins in the council of five, all of them have equal power. The idea is that evil cannot be lead by one, but many. The council will vote on actions (the antipaladins will lean more towards the battle related commands, and the priests will consult the gods for guidance and give their opinions to be tactically aided by antipaladins) only the council members know eachothers true identities. Every member is 'given a name' which is assigned to them as the code name. ((So nobody actually intros themselves IG, everyone just uses the 'give name' command (unless people already know eachother, which cannot be helped...but when a cultist wears the mask, he must be treated as anonymous -even if the name is known-)).

The idea is to create a force that serves the unholy deities rather than concerns themselves with those who join the cultists in their quest. The whole challenging thing should be taken out. If a council member is killed permanently, then their position is taken. The idea of challenging permeates too much honor and good knighthood. If a council member is to be slain, it should be done in secrecy. (this will truly flesh out the weak)

It will be announced that any murderers, bandits, criminals can seek refuge in the cult, but they will be used as thralls and servants, and expected to do more dirty, revealing work that could get them caught. Each one of the official guild members will be issued a heraldic shield (with the balor crest) an identical mask, and a ritual dagger (poisoned simple dagger -it will be demanded that the dagger is always used for the coupe de grace on a near-death opponent, as an offering to the unholy pantheon) The focus of the cult's affections are for Moshran and Bjolmur, and there should be one of each priest in the council. It should be organized for there to secretely be members of the trollsbane guard in the cult, so that is a member is caught, the jail can be opened and the member can be released. if this is not possible, all measures must be taken to kill the member upon any sort of release.

Respect must be given to the council of five, for they are the chosen of Bjolmur, and the motive of the guild is not to elevate the person, but the idea. Evil is to be done in any way possible. Killing within the guild is discouraged, as it cuts down on cultists. All members must pray to both Bjolmur and Moshran once a night. All members are encouraged to perform the coup de grace with the ritual blade (on an innocent person) once per dwarven week (but this is not enforced, only encouraged)
Council members are the original five founders of the guild. The members are only replaced when they die (possibly murdered) or quit the guild (in which case they must be killed) the adjustment of 3 antipaladins and two different priests in the council will be made when members die. Council member must vow not to act for themselves, but for the entire guild, the unholy pantheon of deities, and the approval of the Death Balor summoning. It will be trusted that the council members are doing so, and therefore they must be obeyed by all lesser members. The council members are called D'arths. No one man can control evil. We must stop focusing on the individual, we must wear our masks and become the idea! Become the cult!

Post your support here.

Aldan Vian · Post by **Aldan Vian** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:46 am

Love it

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:28 am

The only problem is, that The title "D'arth" will not stand. It is a reference to the sith lords, as all probably realize. I'm not here to be a rule-nazi, Just that It was already told to me by a confused GM who thought that it was my guild

Change the title, And it is fine. Just don't be surprised when Taylor comes after you.

Aldan Vian · Post by **Aldan Vian** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:51 am

That was junipers idea....this is against a new knighthood...(run by juniper)

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:16 am

GM Mesha already made me change it. I already told Slavf about this. He'll change it.

Aldan Vian · Post by **Aldan Vian** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:22 am

TImes are about to get interesting in the lands of gobaith...or so I think.

Bellringer · Post by **Bellringer** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:41 pm

I like the sound of this one. If it truly does have alliance with the Temple, Grakir may consider becoming a priest for you.

The Cult · Post by **The Cult** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:38 pm

I dont know if it does or not. I didnt post the alliance. The cult is quite similar to a temple order, but they are much more fanatic, and take their devotion to Bjolmur beyond mere worship. If they are not already allied with the temple of Bjolmur, they definitely should be. Grakir would surely make a good addition.

Bellringer · Post by **Bellringer** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:20 pm

May I just point out that the Temple of Bjolmur does not exist. Simply, the Temple. It has no religious persausion, though many choose to follow Moshran.

Grakir may consider helping, aslong as it's not simply a PKing guild.

The Cult · Post by **The Cult** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:06 pm

Oh alright then this is essentially the first large following of Bjolmur. No it is far from a PK'ing based guild. Though PK'ing will definately occur. One of the things cultists are encouraged (not ordered) to do is to perform the coupe de grace with the ritual dagger on an innocent victim, one a dwarven week. The main goal at first is to grow. Then there will be RP'ing large secret cult gatherings with mass rituals. Assassinations will be planned to kill some members of the good priesthood, and governors. PK'ing is unavoidable in a fanatic cult, but no, it will not be the main point of the group. The main point is to serve Bjulmur in prayer and ritual, cause fear and spread deception among the innocent. (Basically, we aren't the Kallahorn

)

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:14 pm

All you just descriped made no sense, there is no need to cloud anyone, fear is far better introduced with torture not with letting people run to a cross, but what should I expect from someone who obviously believes its good rp to powergame all his chars, So don't complain in the end when the good chars rally a few people to complettly crush you.

The Cult · Post by **The Cult** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:28 pm

Err Pella. This is not PO Juniper. Also, clouding does make sense, though I am quite aware you do not condone it. Killing DOES create fear. Do you think Stalin was so powerfully feared because he hurt people, and let them go? Also, say a governor is encountered. What is more practical, going through an elaborate process of capturing him, torturing him, and setting him free. Or assassinating him with poisoned daggers? (study some history) Sure, torture is lovely. But that does not void the use of good 'ol death. You need to learn not to be so obnoxious and ignorant, Pellandria. And there are many other chars that like the idea of a threat (makes for good RP), so dont expect some silly little army supporting your ideas. Pointless PK is useless, but there is nothing wrong with a certain amount of well-rp'd killing. I know, you want illa to be safe so you can walk around Trolls Bane all day doing your less-than-skillful roleplaying with your less-than-interesting character. Some can handle the idea of a well-rp'd evil organization that actually does something. And how can people snuff out a group that they know nothing about, know nothing of the location of, and know none of the real identities of it's members? (to rp taking off a mask willfully, you have to make the char take it off, or kill them and take it off. But I can assure you, members of a secretive cult wont be walking around Trollsbane with their masks on) This guild isnt going to run around killing everything in sight. Most of the cult rp will be prayers and nighttime rituals (deep in the forest), but we arent going to abolish the idea of killing people. (killing doesnt epitomize evil, but it can contribute if RP'd correctly)

Don't even bother commenting until you grow a brain Pella. I have seen so many of your other blatantly single-minded opinions on countless threads. Just for a while, give the world a break from revolving around your imbecilic, pretentious opinions.

The Cult · Post by **The Cult** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:59 pm

MOST OF THE CULT'S RP WILL BE RITUALS AND WORSHIP! I don't want a PK guild. I am just saying that there is nothing wrong with PK if it is well rp'd and has a reason other than to slice up some noob. I HATE the fear of any PK whatsoever that is regulated by silly people like pella. Just because a guild decides that PK is alright (if well-rp'd) it does not mean they are a 'PK GUILD'. And despite the clouded beliefs of pella, there is a wide history of killing if you study MANY successful, large, evil organizations in the word's history. The taking of human life is socially seen as one of the more heinous crimes, and people who do not hesitate to kill, ARE usually feared. Yes, torture is even better if it can be done. For example, if we could catch some halfling walking along the forest edge at night, we would definately drag him into the forest, and horribly torture him through ritual processes. (holding his face in a fire, chopping off his hands and cauterizing the wound, letting rats get at his toes.) One problem is, would the char RP his new condition once we let him free? -but that is a discussion we will need to have with the tortured character, and with the GM's- But killing also serves a purpose, and it should not be the sole goal of the cult. IT ISNT. Im just saying that there will be rumors of death caused by the cult. This is NOT bad rp! This is a style of rp that 'neighborhood watch' pella argues against. But I don't see the GM's saying "NEVER roleplay murder" they say, "Dont ALWAYS murder; and if you do, roleplay it. Use at least two emotes ahead of time, and present a raeson for killing the char." MURDER is an exciting part of the game. It should never be the entire game. BUT, neither should sitting around Trolls Bane in an endless peacetime, or going out and PG'ing a char that is never going to fight. There needs to be a balance. Illarion is a multiplayer game with endless rp options and is pvp enabled. It would seem kinda pointless if the only thing you ever fought were re-spawning undead. There needs to be a threat. Feel free to fight back against the cult, they expect opposition. (also, we are not going to request perma-death unless it is an rp'd ritual death done by several cult members as an offering to Bjolmur, or if it is a planned out assassination of a governer.) I have been often clouded by other chars. I am not happy, but it's not them I am angry at. They roleplayed it well and said something like, "#me emerges from behind the bushes, running towards you with daggers out." so im not going to say, "NO FAIR! that was bad rp they clouded me!

"

PS: I only have one character that is even moderately good at fighting. The other two are plainly rp, so I think that you are confusing me with somebody else. Im not a PG'er.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:15 pm

The Cult wrote:Err Pella. This is not PO Juniper. Also, clouding does make sense, though I am quite aware you do not condone it. Killing DOES create fear. Do you think Stalin was so powerfully feared because he hurt people, and let them go?

You fail to see something important here, in Illarion ~death~ is barely something annoying, something that happens so often that noone cares about that, while in real life the simple mention of death is far more fear introducing and I guess you don't even know why or?

The fact that the humans either live in denial, create some artificial afterlife or simply accept their fate still doesn't not take away that there might be nothing beyond the death, this is why people fear death and this is why our world is full of monuments, prizes and what else, in Illarion a char does only ~die~, if the player allows it to or if the player breaks rules for that matter, thus a char will always simply suffer injuries after clouding, nothing else, the past has shown countless times that clouding does not inject fear into anyone, but merely causes rage and the urge for revenge, which simply ends in more cloudings, untill one side is sick of playing the game.

Torturing on the other side is far more effectiv, because now you got someone who not only can tell you what cruel things you have done, no he also has marks of that probaply showing, but I guess you would need to think further than just before your door to know that.

Also, say a governor is encountered. What is more practical, going through an elaborate process of capturing him, torturing him, and setting him free. Or assassinating him with poisoned daggers? (study some history) Sure, torture is lovely. But that does not void the use of good 'ol death. You need to learn not to be so obnoxious and ignorant, Pellandria.

As mentioned above death has no count in illa, because its depending on the Po if he lets his char die, but if you can treat someone and capture him he will ~always~ live in the fear to get captured again and maybe tortured brings far worser fears then "Oh man now I need to visit the cross again".
Its funny that you come with the history argument after all, I guess you are one of these folks that think if they killed Hitler WW2 would never have happend..right?

And there are many other chars that like the idea of a threat (makes for good RP), so dont expect some silly little army supporting your ideas. Pointless PK is useless, but there is nothing wrong with a certain amount of well-rp'd killing.

*meep* here you are wrong, because you allready start off as an ~ooc~ group not as an ig thing, I loved Darloks quest long looong ago, hell he probaply could have kilede about every freaking char on the sever with Zerberus taging along, geez zerb was a one hit kill sniper with wind arrows, but they did not kill other people to show off how badass they were, they actually rp'ed a thing, a siege of the whole island and a month long quest resulted in that and this mostly without killing people left and right, but simply because they were strong..skill wise true, but more so Rp wise and this is where you need to get the people, clouding them will do nothing, keeping them in pain for longer is a better way to go, letting them know that they can't do something against you is the way to go.

I know, you want illa to be safe so you can walk around Trolls Bane all day doing your less-than-skillful roleplaying with your less-than-interesting character. Some can handle the idea of a well-rp'd evil organization that actually does something. And how can people snuff out a group that they know nothing about, know nothing of the location of, and know none of the real identities of it's members?

Who said I want it to be safe, obviously you know next to nothing about either my char nor my roleplay, because would you actually know a bit more about her, than that annoying brat shows a far more dangerous face, but the fact that you don't know about this side just shows one thing...that I can actually hide stuff from other people manipulating chars without forcing them into a group that is just ~there~ and was not slowly build up.

(to rp taking off a mask willfully, you have to make the char take it off, or kill them and take it off. But I can assure you, members of a secretive cult wont be walking around Trollsbane with their masks on) This guild isnt going to run around killing everything in sight. Most of the cult rp will be prayers and nighttime rituals (deep in the forest), but we arent going to abolish the idea of killing people. (killing doesnt epitomize evil, but it can contribute if RP'd correctly)

You are not there yet, or barely there yet and unless you are talking to people and gather ooc informations or gm help you won't have a chance to catch someone ~off guard~ somewhere, you barely did anything untill this date and you can talk all you want, Gobiath is not so big that you can hide forever and its quiete funny that you allready say that noone will ever unmask you, because obviously you can see the future or maybe because you have no intention to play along with others rp *gasp* but no..that would never happen.

Don't even bother commenting until you grow a brain Pella. I have seen so many of your other blatantly single-minded opinions on countless threads. Just for a while, give the world a break from revolving around you imbecilic, pretentious opinions.

Now I could say you several times broke rule 4 here, but I do not care about someone hiding beyond an new made account, I allready have an Idea who might behind this, but for now I just go on and grin, knowing that you infact..know less than you think you might know.

Now isn't that cute..they got a shared account.

The Cult wrote:MOST OF THE CULT'S RP WILL BE RITUALS AND WORSHIP! I don't want a PK guild. I am just saying that there is nothing wrong with PK if it is well rp'd and has a reason other than to slice up some noob. I HATE the fear of any PK whatsoever that is regulated by silly people like pella.

You know its still funny for the fact that untill today you just ~want~ things, but did nothing up to today, so unless you can show proove of any succesful action you did, you mgiht think about stopping insulting people

Just because a guild decides that PK is alright (if well-rp'd) it does not mean they are a 'PK GUILD'. And despite the clouded beliefs of pella, there is a wide history of killing if you study MANY successful, large, evil organizations in the word's history.

The reason why this does not apply to Illarion is allready written above.

[...]and horribly torture him through ritual processes. (holding his face in a fire, chopping off his hands and cauterizing the wound, letting rats get at his toes.) One problem is, would the char RP his new condition once we let him free?

I don't even want to mention that you obviously have no idea what a "ritual" even is, but I will pass over that, because now you are saying something quiete funny, who says that ~anyone~ would rp a clouding, I think as playing a medico for some time and playing out wounds and other injuries for a long time now I can say that I barely see anyone playing wounds for a long time till they are forgoten and everything is normal again.

-but that is a discussion we will need to have with the tortured character, and with the GM's- But killing also serves a purpose, and it should not be the sole goal of the cult. IT ISNT. Im just saying that there will be rumors of death caused by the cult. This is NOT bad rp! This is a style of rp that 'neighborhood watch' pella argues against. But I don't see the GM's saying "NEVER roleplay murder"

You still don't get it or, just spreading rumors will...well do exactly nothing, people will simply avoid you for the fact that they do not want to train for another ten hours to get all the stuff in that you stole them + the skill they lost, thats not fear thats just annoyance and it has nothing to do with any fear or good rp and I never said that murdering is bad rp or speak against such thing, I merely doubt that you can actually create the atmosphere where fear grows, because obviously you are thinking to ~simple~ minded.

Actually your added description of ~murdering~ just shows how less you understand form any form of rp, thats jsut the "How i cloud a char and get away with it" stuff.

Fayne Bridgewater · Post by **Fayne Bridgewater** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:45 pm

I'm all for a little evil, so long as you realize the ghosting will be retaliated..

Daelyn · Post by **Daelyn** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:08 pm

Ghosting is necessary in order to put some fear in the PLAYERS Pellandria, not to put fear in the chars. That should be synonymous, but sadly it is not.

This looks promising to me, good luck!

Shenandrea · Post by **Shenandrea** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:35 pm

Daelyn wrote:Ghosting is necessary in order to put some fear in the PLAYERS Pellandria, not to put fear in the chars. That should be synonymous, but sadly it is not.

I don't think Ghosting IS necessary. As Pell has shown up. Take a char as hostage, do him harm(as long as it doesn't goes against the PO's thought of his char), cut him off one, two or more fingers by time if it's going to be that way. A Char that is well RP'ed will RP this handicapBut i think ghosting should be the last opinion in this.

In my opinnion, getting ghosted in the thought of bringing fear into the Players instead of the char, would absolutely p*ss me off.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:52 pm

Putting "fear" into other -> PLAYERS <- is exactly the wrong thing and WILL cause the whole cult thing to end up in lots of OOC-pissed people flaming eachother or leaving the game angrily.

Hooray, YABT !
(yet another blackstone temple)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

...In my opinion, you can't play a villain char if you have the goal to "win":
if you create a villain char, you must always keep in mind or even plan that he will loose.

Why ?

Each "villain" - or any other "evil" schemed char - must always be created and played with the goal of making the game fun especially for other players. ALWAYS.
Only then, it will in the long run also be fun for you.

Coordination as well as good OOC-Communication with players of other fractions is absolutely essential. Always stay fair, and remind your fellow villains to do the same. Create events together with the other players/fractions, not solely against them - If you want to play evil, it doesn't mean you have to play unfair.
From experience, that's the only way to keep the whole thing from getting out of hand and becoming an OOC conflict mess.
Playing / coordinating an "evil" group brings some responsibility to avoid enerving other players out of the game. And if you're participating in such a group, follow your main person's OOC orders and don't pull of your own private war against the town guards anew every day or two three.

If you cause a bigger or more lasting conflict, and if a villain group really gets beaten, don't reassemble and continue as if nothing happened or start off the same things again after a week or two.
Make it theatralic, perhaps roleplay a big public execution of some "evil" chars who got caught or defeated, but don't return again and again with the same scheme. After such, it's better to make new chars for a different scheme, perhaps a goblin gang, or whatever.

Example : A well RPed villain who is, after a while of lots of RP, captured and perhaps even executed with some huge ingame event which is planned together with town guards and other players, will end up in a lot more fun for everyone than someone who gets clouded and returns two days later, right after the char has recovered, to take an ever-ongoing revenge on everyone else.
Even in years, people will say about the first one : "Do you remember xxy, now, that was some great RP." - While the second may only be remembered like a Rothman or worse.

So play fair, stay fair, and play WITH the other players, not against them.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:08 pm

While that is some sound advice Damien there is no reason why a Villain cannot be created in order to 'win'.

As long as their actions do not detract significantly from other player's enjoyment of the game they are well within their right to create and strive for a successful evil character and/or group.

It is not the responsibility of players who create evil characters to entertain the other players. That is the responsibility of the GMs. Players are there to play the game as they wish, so long as they do not violate the rules. The only important thing is to have consideration for other players.

In my experience fear comes from the threat and not the deed itself. If you wish to spread and grow fear do not go around with the intention to kill people. Go around threatening and intimidating and worrying them. Of course should someone openly and violently challenge you then you should strike them down. However it is better to wait for initiation and confirmation of conflict to come from the other player. Basically don't ctrl click anyone who is not prepared to fight back.

While this might not make sense from an ingame perspective it really is the only way to minimise OOC problems and create an environment that is tense, yet enjoyable for everyone.

If something does come of this then be sure you don't repeat my mistakes. I learnt from them and I hope you will too.

And really Damien, must you continue to mock and belittle both myself and other players who have a different outlook to yourself. I am the first to admit that the Temple was not a perfect organisation, but we all must start somewhere. I have grown from the experience and learnt to put it behind me. Why can you not do the same?

Aurelius · Post by **Aurelius** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:57 pm

Nalzaxx wrote:....... Players are there to play the game as they wish, so long as they do not violate the rules. The only important thing is to have consideration for other players.

In my experience fear comes from the threat and not the deed itself. If you wish to spread and grow fear do not go around with the intention to kill people. Go around threatening and intimidating and worrying them. Of course should someone openly and violently challenge you then you should strike them down. However it is better to wait for initiation and confirmation of conflict to come from the other player. Basically don't ctrl click anyone who is not prepared to fight back.

While this might not make sense from an ingame perspective it really is the only way to minimise OOC problems and create an environment that is tense, yet enjoyable for everyone.

If something does come of this then be sure you don't repeat my mistakes. I learnt from them and I hope you will too.....

Truer words could not be said. I wish I had learned this before my 'rampage' of terror. I have attacked 10 victims (Clouded eight) in no less than 2 weeks, and been called to explain myself to the GM no less than four times for player 'complaints'.

Having learned quickly from the sessions with a GM, Nalzaxx's words ring very true and should be considered by anyone playing 'evil' characters.

The Game is about enjoyment of all players, not just you're own. The opportunity to 'catch' you can be just as fun as the deed itself. Give players surrounding the area, the chance to catch you, rather than running away every time. Spending time in jail can help add to the 'mystery' and reputation too.

BTW - The GM's are outlawing any 'intent' to cause Wildfires, so I wouldn't even mess with those. You could get banned.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:10 pm

Nalzaxx wrote:While that is some sound advice Damien there is no reason why a Villain cannot be created in order to 'win'.

That is personal opinion. Fact : the majority of players who want to win get carried away with their anger if stuff does not go as they planned. Plus, if a "REAL" villain wins, then all "good" guys are either dead or have fled, the world lies in ruins and everyone has to choose between kissing the dust touched by his feet or to be slowly tortured to death... we usually have roleplayers here and not maso-players

Nalzaxx wrote:As long as their actions do not detract significantly from other player's enjoyment of the game they are well within their right to create and strive for a successful evil character and/or group.

True. The problem is that illarion is not "big" enough to have a "good" and a "bad" country without them two interacting kinda all the time. A "successful" evil group usually has to kinda dominate the place. Illarion never had a "successful" evil group - the most just got annoying after a while.

Nalzaxx wrote:It is not the responsibility of players who create evil characters to entertain the other players. That is the responsibility of the GMs. Players are there to play the game as they wish, so long as they do not violate the rules. The only important thing is to have consideration for other players.

BIG MISUNDERSTANDING !!! GMs are NOT "entertainers". It's their main job to keep the game running. Also to attract players by making some "action" (quests).
BUT !!! Ingame, your best entertainment is ALWAYS good RP - which has to be provided by the PLAYERS, not the GMs ! If you have a bunch of GMs who rip their arms off to make you some neat quests and the players are not really roleplaying - you can forget about it, or just go and play RP-less stuff like WoW.

Nalzaxx wrote:In my experience fear comes from the threat and not the deed itself. If you wish to spread and grow fear do not go around with the intention to kill people. Go around threatening and intimidating and worrying them. Of course should someone openly and violently challenge you then you should strike them down. However it is better to wait for initiation and confirmation of conflict to come from the other player. Basically don't ctrl click anyone who is not prepared to fight back.

While this might not make sense from an ingame perspective it really is the only way to minimise OOC problems and create an environment that is tense, yet enjoyable for everyone.
If something does come of this then be sure you don't repeat my mistakes. I learnt from them and I hope you will too.

Very, very true !

Nalzaxx wrote: And really Damien, must you continue to mock and belittle both myself and other players who have a different outlook to yourself. I am the first to admit that the Temple was not a perfect organisation, but we all must start somewhere. I have grown from the experience and learnt to put it behind me. Why can you not do the same?

...Simply because i was the guy who said "it will end up in a mess" and because i was right.

...no, seriously. I'm not mocking. I do use a somewhat provocative sounding introduction... true. And i "abused" the best remembered villain-club-gone-bad as an example.

But anyway, the temple and all the evil clubs before(and after) usually made the same mistakes : they wanted to win and tried too hard, and they didn't give up even after they were defeated again and again.

And true : no matter what you say, people will just try because they have not made that experience by themselves(yet). They won't listen to the guys who have seen or made that stuff happening a few times before kinda almost identically. But illa lost enough good players due to such misunderstood principles - so please excuse me for pointing out the basic concepts of "roleplay" again here.

Because that's what it is about : As "villain", you are very likely to be opposed by a LOT of players. At some point, they will unite and kick you off the island. At that point, you just can't win. And if you cling to that goal too much, some of your group will become enerving enough to make a few people very angry OOC.

What we want, is not "fear" in the players - we want ROLEPLAYED "fear" in the chars, if they have a reason to. Of course : for that, you need the cooperation of these players.
They will not cooperate with you if you don't cooperate by yourself !

Your villain char, of course, always wants to win.
But you, as a player, must not want to win - because that's not possible in a game that is not about "winning" or "loosing", but about being fun for EVERYONE.

So please : Don't be a Rothman !
Play fair and stay fair.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:37 pm

You guys talk way too much. Just play the game and change whatever you get called into GM castle for. I'm having a blast without even visiting these forums.

-Matt

Bellringer · Post by **Bellringer** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:10 pm

I hereby start a Church of Matt...His philosophy rocks!

Daelyn · Post by **Daelyn** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:29 am

You guys all get me wrong, or at least don't see my point.

People don't play their chars as scared, unless they are somewhat scared themselves. All experience shows this, claiming something else is just ridiculous. You guys have WAY too much confidence in people's RP abilities.

Clouding should be used in combination with RP, like for example torture. Clouding is a part of the game after all, and if it was not there, then all technical skills would be more or less useless. Stop whining about it. If you don't like technical fights or engine powered item creating etc., when what do you care if your char looses some skill?

Kail Revira · Post by **Kail Revira** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:02 pm

Personally, wen it comes to being a villain, i have to say it isnt a win/lose character. just like with a good character, you dont ALWAYS win. I believe, in the case of an evil guild, you win by creating the guild and recruiting and then lose wen you attack TB and half of it is burned down

. Of course, i can see why a lot of evil characters can get kinda miffed. i mean you spend a lot of time RPing and raising ur skills so u r a WORTHY opponent, yet all along the line you KNOW your gunna get perma-killed in the end, or at least sumn bad will happen. or perhaps you will be redeemed and more RP comes out of it? Remba, just like in DnD (if you play) death doesnt mean PWNAGE make a new character. Maybe a lich? (the last bit was a joke, i know we cant be liches... yet

)

~kail~

Greisling · Post by **Greisling** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:03 pm

Nice idea.
Reminds me on some halfling leader's village, some gold-thirsty dwarf, and some fanatatic priest somehow

Anyway, have fun "evil" guys.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:47 pm

Daelyn wrote:You guys all get me wrong, or at least don't see my point.

People don't play their chars as scared, unless they are somewhat scared themselves. All experience shows this, claiming something else is just ridiculous. You guys have WAY too much confidence in people's RP abilities.

Clouding should be used in combination with RP, like for example torture. Clouding is a part of the game after all, and if it was not there, then all technical skills would be more or less useless. Stop whining about it. If you don't like technical fights or engine powered item creating etc., when what do you care if your char looses some skill?

The point is that they are scared BEFORE you cloud them. AFTERWARDS they are just pissed off and angry. This is the problem because if you scare the players, then its also the players you piss off when you cloud their creation. This inevitably leads to OOC bitching and people leaving.

I understand the point, it is the same rhetoric I used to use back in the day. Unfortunately as idealogically sound as it is, it just doesn't work in practice. Most people get pissed off when they get clouded, regardless of the circumstances and roleplay involved. Esentially clouding is a technical punishment and nobody likes to be punished, whether they are in the wrong or not. Therefore the more people you cloud, the more people you piss off and the bigger the headache you give to the players, yourself and the community as a whole.

We have a knockback system in place now. I suggest people start using it. Finishing an opponent off might make sense, especially if done in context. Its just not a good idea and can be easily avoided.

Kaila Galathil Travinus · Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:45 pm

Since the topic has veered off in this direction, I will add my 2 cents:

Daelyn wrote:.......
People don't play their chars as scared, unless they are somewhat scared themselves. All experience shows this, claiming something else is just ridiculous. You guys have WAY too much confidence in people's RP abilities........

This is totally wrong and against what Illarion as a RP game stands for IMO. The engine of the game shouldn't be used ASSUMING chars will not be RP'd correctly, it is suppose to enhance RP. The step back function was added according to my read to stop the senseless ooc and flaming ig and on the board when a char is ghosted and looses skill.

All members are encouraged to perform the coup de grace with the ritual blade (on an innocent person) once per dwarven week (but this is not enforced, only encouraged)

This is just claiming "we will ignore any other wishes from PO's not to get ghosted and loose skill", in other words.."we don't care about the enjoyment of other players, just our own".

RP wise, if my char is in a step back situation they are SERIOUSLY hurt and wouldn't be able to fight. The other char has won and done it gracefully (WITHOUT the weakened char loosing any skill nor the PO getting upset).

Kamilar · Post by **Kamilar** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:00 pm

Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote:
All members are encouraged to perform the coup de grace with the ritual blade (on an innocent person) once per dwarven week (but this is not enforced, only encouraged)

Is this for real? I just don't see how this adds to anyone's sense of fun.

For sure Starling can stand up to an attack, but why should she? Because some players think it's fun to attack at random? I have seen very few POs RP while using the engine. It's almost as if they are two separate games.

IMO it's more interesting to play out the suspense and unpredictability. Once there is an attack, the result is determined. RP is over.

Just for pre-consent purposes... count me out. I'm not interested in joining this particular bit of RP.

The Cult · Post by **The Cult** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:22 pm

Kamilar wrote:
Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote:
All members are encouraged to perform the coup de grace with the ritual blade (on an innocent person) once per dwarven week (but this is not enforced, only encouraged)

Is this for real? I just don't see how this adds to anyone's sense of fun.

For sure Starling can stand up to an attack, but why should she? Because some players think it's fun to attack at random? I have seen very few POs RP while using the engine. It's almost as if they are two separate games.

IMO it's more interesting to play out the suspense and unpredictability. Once there is an attack, the result is determined. RP is over.

Just for pre-consent purposes... count me out. I'm not interested in joining this particular bit of RP.

---This feature will be changed. I was thinking more along the lines of real life, and not illa. Forgot too much about making it fun for other characters. The use of the poisoned blades will only be encouraged for the well-planned and rp'd assassination of a governor. I hope this helps.