I was wondering if we could have a "think" command that lets you express your thoughts. It wouldn't be the same as using #me thinks . . . You would type "#think" followed by whatever it was you wanted to think. Noone would see this information except you and the GMs. It wouldn't appear on the dialogue screen, nor would it appear in anybodies log except the thinkers and the GMs. This could be used to prevent misunderstandings between the GMs and the players. A person could explain why they were doing what they were doing if it was something that their character wouldn't normally do. This way if someone complained to the GMs about someone's actions, the GMs could just check their log and see if the person had a good role-play reason.
Kragmar
Oh yes, the #think commands would need to be entered IC
#think
Moderator: Gamemasters
-
Brendan Mason
- Posts: 1175
- Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2002 11:22 pm
- Location: Don't Feed the Troll...
- Contact:
Sorry, but I just don't seem to see a point to this. It would not add to RP...and what's the point of programming another feature like this...when you can express thought by doing #me thinks.
If the people you RP with are any good at it, they will not react to your thought...as that is what it is.
If a character is psychic or empathic, perhaps they will pick up on the feeling or emotion.
If the thought shows up on your face, for example-
"#me thinks about his dead dog and sad look spreads across his face"
then perhaps other characters could pick up on the facial expression.
It also seems like you are trying to cover your own ass...
A player could kill another character for fun...pure fun....and then type.
"#me thinks to himself....that will teach that vile thief..."
The player may not have even offended....and the killer walks away free, just because he uses some half-arsed roleplay thoughts...
A pointless suggestion, I'm afraid.
Brendan Mason
Follower of Truth
If the people you RP with are any good at it, they will not react to your thought...as that is what it is.
If a character is psychic or empathic, perhaps they will pick up on the feeling or emotion.
If the thought shows up on your face, for example-
"#me thinks about his dead dog and sad look spreads across his face"
then perhaps other characters could pick up on the facial expression.
It also seems like you are trying to cover your own ass...
A player could kill another character for fun...pure fun....and then type.
"#me thinks to himself....that will teach that vile thief..."
The player may not have even offended....and the killer walks away free, just because he uses some half-arsed roleplay thoughts...
A pointless suggestion, I'm afraid.
Brendan Mason
Follower of Truth
@ Brendan - Why should we be forced to depend on another player to not respond to your thoughts? They will, even if they try not to. Sometimes, expressing you thoughts out-loud may actually be dangerous. If you are trying to decieve them, you wouldn't want to use #me commands and just trust them not to respond to them. Perhaps a character is an assassin and wants to lure someone away from the crowd in order to kill them. If I was an assassin, I wouldn't use #me commands to express my happiness.
No, I'm not trying to "just cover" myself. I've got pants for that
Your suggestion about "teach[ing] that vile thief" a lesson isn't very good because someone could do the same thing now with #me commands. With the #think command, they could put in some thoughts along the way without wondering whether or not the other person would ignore them as they should. Whatever a person typed, it would be up to the GM to decide if it was a good reason. This way, the GMs wouldn't have to start sending email and PMs trying to find out who is at fault. They would already have the character's reason in front of them. It's quality and believability would be the only thing in doubt and those two things can never be decided for sure with out the ability to read minds in RL.
I'm not suggesting this command for times when you are just talking with your friends. The #me command is perfect for that. I'm suggesting it for times when the validity of your role-playing could be in doubt and you want to head off trouble a-head of time, in character, without sending an email.
Kragmar
(roll-playing should have been role-playing)
No, I'm not trying to "just cover" myself. I've got pants for that
Your suggestion about "teach[ing] that vile thief" a lesson isn't very good because someone could do the same thing now with #me commands. With the #think command, they could put in some thoughts along the way without wondering whether or not the other person would ignore them as they should. Whatever a person typed, it would be up to the GM to decide if it was a good reason. This way, the GMs wouldn't have to start sending email and PMs trying to find out who is at fault. They would already have the character's reason in front of them. It's quality and believability would be the only thing in doubt and those two things can never be decided for sure with out the ability to read minds in RL. I'm not suggesting this command for times when you are just talking with your friends. The #me command is perfect for that. I'm suggesting it for times when the validity of your role-playing could be in doubt and you want to head off trouble a-head of time, in character, without sending an email.
Kragmar
(roll-playing should have been role-playing)
You are not playing this game for your pleasure alone.
You are playing that with and for other Players.
And these other Players deserve to read the minds of your Character in order to know whats up with your character.
Its also some kind of fair-play.
On the other hand, your proposal would bring up more work for the gms.
They have to look through thousand lines of Log-files just to varify the "Thoughs" of some Player.
This could have been avoided if the player would "think aloud".
Darlok
You are playing that with and for other Players.
And these other Players deserve to read the minds of your Character in order to know whats up with your character.
Its also some kind of fair-play.
On the other hand, your proposal would bring up more work for the gms.
They have to look through thousand lines of Log-files just to varify the "Thoughs" of some Player.
This could have been avoided if the player would "think aloud".
Darlok
1) Its not really realistic. Mindreading is something I do not believe in.
2) Yes, it would be for players, not for characters. But what for? I mean, they mix it up all the time anyway...
3) If you really nead it urgently, then tell me how this should be done in detail. You type "#think he is stupid" and the others read:
"Kragmar thinks he is stupid"
Thats exactly the output of "#me thinks he is stupid". Why should this be programmed seperately?
Martin
2) Yes, it would be for players, not for characters. But what for? I mean, they mix it up all the time anyway...
3) If you really nead it urgently, then tell me how this should be done in detail. You type "#think he is stupid" and the others read:
"Kragmar thinks he is stupid"
Thats exactly the output of "#me thinks he is stupid". Why should this be programmed seperately?
Martin
Perhaps it could be used by people with good willpower as something to find out if someone is online #thinks 'charname'
THen you get a reply like : You sense nothing; meaning they arent online
: You sense some activity; meaning they are online
: Your thoughts are clouded; meaning you dont know because you arent good at this skill
This would give a nice use to willpower. But on the other hand you could always look on the website. However, if you use it and they are online you could #thinks 'charname' 'message'; as to be able to send them a message the longer it is the less likely you are to suceed.
THen you get a reply like : You sense nothing; meaning they arent online
: You sense some activity; meaning they are online
: Your thoughts are clouded; meaning you dont know because you arent good at this skill
This would give a nice use to willpower. But on the other hand you could always look on the website. However, if you use it and they are online you could #thinks 'charname' 'message'; as to be able to send them a message the longer it is the less likely you are to suceed.
This idea isn't intended to replace, displace, or in any way affect the #me command. #me thinks would still be perfectly operable and would work as it always has. The #think command would simply be a way of heading off trouble before it starts. When someone types #think, they would really just be writing a note to the log on the server that this is why they are doing what they are doing. Noone will see the #think. The only places that it will exist will be on the server log and the "thinker's" log. Someone would only use a #think command when they are engaging in some activity which another person could see as breaking a rule. It's not so much a function to cover your butt as Brendan suggested as it is a way for the GMs to get the information quicker. Instead of emailing the supposed offender, the GMs could first check the logs and see if they had used the #think command to explain their actions. Simply using the #think command wouldn't be enough of an excuse to get away with things. Whether or not it was good enough would be up to the GM investigating the incident.
This proposal isn't so much a way to affect the way the game-play as it is a way to prevent misunderstandings between the GMs and the players. It provides a quick, easy, IC way for someone to give the GMs an easily accessible reason for the way they are acting. I say "quick" and "easy" because the logs are (I'm assuming) quicker than email.
I can see one case where this is obviosly useful
1. You are an assassin who is killing someone whom you haven't met. Since you are just going to be killing them out of the blue, there is a significant chance that they will complain to the GMs calling you a PK. You're out looking for them and you find them. You recognize their number. You don't want to use #me thinks to enter something in the log, because that will ruin your element of surprise (even if they ignore it, they will subconsiously be more prepare.) You could simply type "#think that he sees the hobbit he was hired by Bob the Tailor to kill." Noone would see what he typed. There would just be a note made on his personal log and and on the server log that would read "Kragmar thinks that he see the hobbit he was hired by Bob the Tailor to kill." He would still have his element of surprise and if the hobbit complained, the GM could simply check the log, see the note you made, and check to make sure that he really was hired by Bob the tailor. Case closed. It doesn't require talking to any people and is therefore much quicker.
This idea would be useful whenever a person wanted to act in a manner which could possibly get them in trouble with out alerting those around them before hand. What someone says and what they choose to let others hear of their thoughts is not always an accurate representation of their true motives.
I don't need it "urgently." In fact, I don't have plans to kill anyone in the immediate future. I'm just suggesting it now because a little work now might save a lot of work trying to find out who is at fault in cases like these in the future. hehe. I say "a little," but I really don't know much work it would be. I'm supposing it could be implemented just like the
!suffix and !prefix commands were. It might be a lot more work to make it not display on anybodies log except the thinkers and the servers.
I hope everyone understands what I'm trying to say (it took me three posts to get it to this point )
This proposal isn't so much a way to affect the way the game-play as it is a way to prevent misunderstandings between the GMs and the players. It provides a quick, easy, IC way for someone to give the GMs an easily accessible reason for the way they are acting. I say "quick" and "easy" because the logs are (I'm assuming) quicker than email.
I can see one case where this is obviosly useful
1. You are an assassin who is killing someone whom you haven't met. Since you are just going to be killing them out of the blue, there is a significant chance that they will complain to the GMs calling you a PK. You're out looking for them and you find them. You recognize their number. You don't want to use #me thinks to enter something in the log, because that will ruin your element of surprise (even if they ignore it, they will subconsiously be more prepare.) You could simply type "#think that he sees the hobbit he was hired by Bob the Tailor to kill." Noone would see what he typed. There would just be a note made on his personal log and and on the server log that would read "Kragmar thinks that he see the hobbit he was hired by Bob the Tailor to kill." He would still have his element of surprise and if the hobbit complained, the GM could simply check the log, see the note you made, and check to make sure that he really was hired by Bob the tailor. Case closed. It doesn't require talking to any people and is therefore much quicker.
This idea would be useful whenever a person wanted to act in a manner which could possibly get them in trouble with out alerting those around them before hand. What someone says and what they choose to let others hear of their thoughts is not always an accurate representation of their true motives.
I don't need it "urgently." In fact, I don't have plans to kill anyone in the immediate future. I'm just suggesting it now because a little work now might save a lot of work trying to find out who is at fault in cases like these in the future. hehe. I say "a little," but I really don't know much work it would be. I'm supposing it could be implemented just like the
!suffix and !prefix commands were. It might be a lot more work to make it not display on anybodies log except the thinkers and the servers.
I hope everyone understands what I'm trying to say (it took me three posts to get it to this point
)-
Thereadore
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2002 7:50 pm
Personally, I don't like, and never use, #me thinks anyway. There is no way others can know what I am thinking, and I think it' bad RP to use it.
#me frowns
#me smiles
#me grins
#me looks concerned
those, people can see
#me thinks it's a good idea
Those, people can't see.
#me smiles at the idea.
Would do the same thing, and be more RPish.
As far as
#thinks
I think that if your RP is not good enough to explain itself, then you shouldn't be doing the action in the first place.
#me frowns
#me smiles
#me grins
#me looks concerned
those, people can see
#me thinks it's a good idea
Those, people can't see.
#me smiles at the idea.
Would do the same thing, and be more RPish.
As far as
#thinks
I think that if your RP is not good enough to explain itself, then you shouldn't be doing the action in the first place.
Um, Hermie. I wasn't suggesting that only mind readers could see a #think command. Let me repeat what I said.
NO ONE WOULD SEE A #THINK COMMAND EXCEPT THE GMs.
I don't know why everyone is so confused. I thought I made it rather clear. I mentioned nothing about mind-readers. I don't know where the mind reading idea came from. Someone must have just read it into my post because I didn't intend this to have anything to do with mind reading. Anyways, Martin has already said he didn't like the idea so let's drop it.
Kragmar
NO ONE WOULD SEE A #THINK COMMAND EXCEPT THE GMs.
I don't know why everyone is so confused. I thought I made it rather clear. I mentioned nothing about mind-readers. I don't know where the mind reading idea came from. Someone must have just read it into my post because I didn't intend this to have anything to do with mind reading. Anyways, Martin has already said he didn't like the idea so let's drop it.
Kragmar
Hermie, my proposal was intended to be something that would let a player to explain to the GMs why he is doing something unusual that could get him in trouble. Other players wouldn't be able to see it because if they knew what you were thinking, that could ruin what you are trying to do. It won't ruin it in every case, but the #think would be for cases where it would. Look at the assassin example I gave.
This way:
1. The other players would not be affected by your using #me thinks. Even if they try to ignore it, it will subconsiously affect their actions.
2. It will allow the GMs to resolve some of these disputes more quickly because any excuse that the player might offer, would already be in the log.
I originally proposed this idea, mostly for the second reason. It would allow these misunderstandings to be resolved with as little time and effort on the GMs part as possible. The first reason is simply a nice side affect.
I hope that this explains what I'm trying to say.
This way:
1. The other players would not be affected by your using #me thinks. Even if they try to ignore it, it will subconsiously affect their actions.
2. It will allow the GMs to resolve some of these disputes more quickly because any excuse that the player might offer, would already be in the log.
I originally proposed this idea, mostly for the second reason. It would allow these misunderstandings to be resolved with as little time and effort on the GMs part as possible. The first reason is simply a nice side affect.
I hope that this explains what I'm trying to say.
If the "think command" only is readable for GM`s the function is useless. Nobody will write something if nobody can read it. Roleplay lives by the communicate bewteen the players not by unreadable sentences.
But, a think command for the public would not be better. No Char can react on thinks of other (nobody is a telepate). Therefore, a public think command is useless too. Everybody who use them (now and today too) only wants to provocate other players, wants an ingame reaction of them.
Everyone who uses sentences like "#me thinks he is....." or reacts on this (" i m ... ?") doesn`t make a good roleplay. (I had to learned it too. There was a wise Bror )
But, a think command for the public would not be better. No Char can react on thinks of other (nobody is a telepate). Therefore, a public think command is useless too. Everybody who use them (now and today too) only wants to provocate other players, wants an ingame reaction of them.
Everyone who uses sentences like "#me thinks he is....." or reacts on this (" i m ... ?") doesn`t make a good roleplay. (I had to learned it too. There was a wise Bror
)I see what Kragmar is trying to do here. Agreed this won't add anything for the players but it might make the GMs lives easier. Consider this scenario :
In game, Ellaron is talking to someone when he is struck down by a sniper. Ellaron complains to the GMs and on checking the logs they find it was Kragmar who did the deed. The GM's contact Kragmar to ask for a reason, and Kragmar tells them it was to collect a bounty put on Ellarons head by Sam. The GMs then contact Sam to substantiate this claim and Sam confirms it. Problem solved no rules broken.
Now the same scenario but with the #thinks command in place :
In game Kragmar sees Ellaron and #thinks Ah! now to collect the bounty Sam put on Ellarons head (or something better). Ellaron is talking to someone when he is struck down by a sniper. Ellaron complains to the GMs and on checking the logs they find it was Kragmar who did the deed and see that it was to collect the bounty put on him by Sam. The GMs then contact Sam to substantiate this claim and Sam confirms it. Problem solved no rules broken.
No one is able to see the #thinks message so can't react to it. It helps the GMs by taking out a point of contact, so saving time. It would be used infrequently and so wouldn't take up alot of log space. Admittedly I don't know how the logs work so I don't know how close to the event the #thinks message would be.
In game, Ellaron is talking to someone when he is struck down by a sniper. Ellaron complains to the GMs and on checking the logs they find it was Kragmar who did the deed. The GM's contact Kragmar to ask for a reason, and Kragmar tells them it was to collect a bounty put on Ellarons head by Sam. The GMs then contact Sam to substantiate this claim and Sam confirms it. Problem solved no rules broken.
Now the same scenario but with the #thinks command in place :
In game Kragmar sees Ellaron and #thinks Ah! now to collect the bounty Sam put on Ellarons head (or something better). Ellaron is talking to someone when he is struck down by a sniper. Ellaron complains to the GMs and on checking the logs they find it was Kragmar who did the deed and see that it was to collect the bounty put on him by Sam. The GMs then contact Sam to substantiate this claim and Sam confirms it. Problem solved no rules broken.
No one is able to see the #thinks message so can't react to it. It helps the GMs by taking out a point of contact, so saving time. It would be used infrequently and so wouldn't take up alot of log space. Admittedly I don't know how the logs work so I don't know how close to the event the #thinks message would be.