Concussion Weapons
Moderator: Gamemasters
Concussion Weapons
Not many people use concussion weapons, I know...
A smith can make 3 types of concussion weapons, and then there's the staff which isn't very popular.
The mace can be made pretty easily, one handed and does a fair amount of damage.
The morning star is a bit harder. You can make a few types of armor before you can make a morning star. (Note that you can make all the types of swords by then, in excellent quality) The morning star has reach but it is slow. A fair price...maybe.
Now this brings us to the warhammer. To get an average one you have to train your smithing to a high degree, you can make a good amount of armors by then. The warhammer however is INSANELY slow (it has reach as well) - and not amazingly damaging as you would expect it.
So the proposal is this. Could we have 'better' concussion weapons? The warhammer is very hard to make, could we have it a bit faster? I don't think anyone would use a warhammer in combat... oh and spice up the damage while you're there
Umm Discuss.
A smith can make 3 types of concussion weapons, and then there's the staff which isn't very popular.
The mace can be made pretty easily, one handed and does a fair amount of damage.
The morning star is a bit harder. You can make a few types of armor before you can make a morning star. (Note that you can make all the types of swords by then, in excellent quality) The morning star has reach but it is slow. A fair price...maybe.
Now this brings us to the warhammer. To get an average one you have to train your smithing to a high degree, you can make a good amount of armors by then. The warhammer however is INSANELY slow (it has reach as well) - and not amazingly damaging as you would expect it.
So the proposal is this. Could we have 'better' concussion weapons? The warhammer is very hard to make, could we have it a bit faster? I don't think anyone would use a warhammer in combat... oh and spice up the damage while you're there
Umm Discuss.
I've tried to explain that reach really only helps in the most minimal of cases a couple times and got ignored. Also, I think the "bigger the weapon the slower but more damage it does" equation doesn't work out. I think a more dynamic system is required, because a quarterstaff is actually a highly fast weapon when used in real life, it's got great defense, but it doesn't hurt any more than getting bonked by a weighted stick does (which is considerable, but not like the kind of hurt that a mace or a sword would do).
Also, I think we underestimate the raw power of a bludgeoning weapons. A friend of mine and I were once considering making a local independent slasher flic in which we broke the stereotype of the sharp-object wielding slasher and instead replaced him with someone with a sledgehammer. The thought of the next villain discovering something's wrong as they feel the last victim's teeth and skull fragments crunch under their feet made the whole thing very tempting. Truly bludgeoning someone to death is perhaps one of the most disgusting (and effective) ways of killing humans.
I recall an incident when I was young where I was sleeping over at a friend of mine's family home. His younger brother had a serious case of untreated ADHD. Their father is the local Chief of Police and I think he figured he could just handle the kid's violent outbursts and keep him in line and he'd just grow out of it. Anyhow, this kid was seriously violent, almost like territorial. You didn't have to mess with him. You were someone who is new to the environment and surely you deserve pain. There was one time when the kid chased me with an electric drill. What was most amazing about it was that he had planned ahead and made sure he had enough extension chord to chase me around the house a full three times.
Anyhow, back on topic (sort of) this one time this kid comes running down the stairs with a rubber mallet over his head hollering like a barbarian on the fritz. He swung the mallet downwards at me and I jumped out of the way, only for the rubber mallet to hit the ground and bounce back. Effectively this kid put all the force of his body into this mallet and whacked himself in the face with it.
There he was on the ground with a trail of blood flowing out of his nostril, unconscious, and the fear dawned on me that I might have just seen someone bludgeon themselves to death. We had long enough to have a conversation about how we were going to explain to his parents that their kid was dead before he woke up and screamed at the top of his lungs in pain. The "crack" that issued from this kid's head when that hammer hit will likely be with me for the rest of my life.
Bludgeoning weapons are not to be underestimated.
Also, I think we underestimate the raw power of a bludgeoning weapons. A friend of mine and I were once considering making a local independent slasher flic in which we broke the stereotype of the sharp-object wielding slasher and instead replaced him with someone with a sledgehammer. The thought of the next villain discovering something's wrong as they feel the last victim's teeth and skull fragments crunch under their feet made the whole thing very tempting. Truly bludgeoning someone to death is perhaps one of the most disgusting (and effective) ways of killing humans.
I recall an incident when I was young where I was sleeping over at a friend of mine's family home. His younger brother had a serious case of untreated ADHD. Their father is the local Chief of Police and I think he figured he could just handle the kid's violent outbursts and keep him in line and he'd just grow out of it. Anyhow, this kid was seriously violent, almost like territorial. You didn't have to mess with him. You were someone who is new to the environment and surely you deserve pain. There was one time when the kid chased me with an electric drill. What was most amazing about it was that he had planned ahead and made sure he had enough extension chord to chase me around the house a full three times.
Anyhow, back on topic (sort of) this one time this kid comes running down the stairs with a rubber mallet over his head hollering like a barbarian on the fritz. He swung the mallet downwards at me and I jumped out of the way, only for the rubber mallet to hit the ground and bounce back. Effectively this kid put all the force of his body into this mallet and whacked himself in the face with it.
There he was on the ground with a trail of blood flowing out of his nostril, unconscious, and the fear dawned on me that I might have just seen someone bludgeon themselves to death. We had long enough to have a conversation about how we were going to explain to his parents that their kid was dead before he woke up and screamed at the top of his lungs in pain. The "crack" that issued from this kid's head when that hammer hit will likely be with me for the rest of my life.
Bludgeoning weapons are not to be underestimated.
Last edited by Aegohl on Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacsAegohl wrote:Truly bludgeoning someone to death is perhaps one of the most disgusting (and effective) ways of killing humans.
Been done before.
- Juliana D'cheyne
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:14 am
- Contact:
- Estralis Seborian
- Posts: 12308
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
- Location: Sir Postalot
- Contact:
Sure. In work, as Nitram stated. Concussion weapons will be a match to other weapons. If you have concrete proposals, feel free to drop them here.Could we have 'better' concussion weapons?
Nope. But the "how hard to make" factor will change in distant future.The warhammer is very hard to make, could we have it a bit faster?
Not now, right. But in future, definatly!I don't think anyone would use a warhammer in combat...
Of course. The warhammer will deliver the most devastating damage per hit of all weapons. It will remain slow, though.oh and spice up the damage while you're there
If you thought I was suggesting that you can't or it's hard to kill someone with bludgeoning, then you didn't read my post at all.Hadrian_Abela wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacsAegohl wrote:Truly bludgeoning someone to death is perhaps one of the most disgusting (and effective) ways of killing humans.
Been done before.
- abcfantasy
- Posts: 1799
- Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:44 pm
- Location: Yes.
- Contact:
- Magdha Tiefenerz
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:11 pm
- Location: Kupferberge - Copper Mountains
Sorry, but I disagree. We have a mace, a warhammer, a morning star, a club and some (8?) staves. And most people will use swords anyway, as in any other fantasy roleplying game.abcfantasy wrote:I think there is a bit of a lack of concussion weapons.
If there is anything that Illarion doesn't need than it is more weapons IMHO.
Illa just needs a nice aluminum baseball bat
or at the very least a nice wooden one, and on a CDG strike your opponents head could fly off for S&G?
personally i think things are being handled in the wrong manner
if youw ant people to stop all using serinjah's, make armor that reduces serinjah or slash weapon effectiveness by like 90% and you will see peopel flock to other weapons in a sort of triangle of blunt-slash-thrust arms race with the armor.
Cant slash through that heavy plate? grab a rapier and stab him into submission with a weapon the armor is useless against
or at the very least a nice wooden one, and on a CDG strike your opponents head could fly off for S&G?
personally i think things are being handled in the wrong manner
if youw ant people to stop all using serinjah's, make armor that reduces serinjah or slash weapon effectiveness by like 90% and you will see peopel flock to other weapons in a sort of triangle of blunt-slash-thrust arms race with the armor.
Cant slash through that heavy plate? grab a rapier and stab him into submission with a weapon the armor is useless against
- Estralis Seborian
- Posts: 12308
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
- Location: Sir Postalot
- Contact:
New weapons will be included, but no concussion ones, sorry. We could use some more but for now, we take what we have. In special high end weapons (e.g. "thunder hammer", "fire mace",...) are missing.
By the way, once and for all for everyone: The swiftness of serinjah swords is a TYPO in the database. No feature. Not intended. Bug. Error. Fault. So, don't moan when you wake up and find all those swords to be as normal as they were supposed to be.
Olive got the idea and this is exactly what my part in all this was/is all about. Balance.Cant slash through that heavy plate? grab a rapier and stab him into submission with a weapon the armor is useless against
By the way, once and for all for everyone: The swiftness of serinjah swords is a TYPO in the database. No feature. Not intended. Bug. Error. Fault. So, don't moan when you wake up and find all those swords to be as normal as they were supposed to be.
- Magdha Tiefenerz
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:11 pm
- Location: Kupferberge - Copper Mountains
- Estralis Seborian
- Posts: 12308
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
- Location: Sir Postalot
- Contact:
- Magdha Tiefenerz
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:11 pm
- Location: Kupferberge - Copper Mountains
- Tanistian_Kanea
- Posts: 646
- Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:22 am
- rakust dorenstkzul
- Posts: 2300
- Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:47 pm
- Location: In the heart of every smiling child
- Tanistian_Kanea
- Posts: 646
- Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:22 am
- Lord Arcia
- Posts: 912
- Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:52 am
- Location: Tol Vanima
- Contact:
I personally dont think we need more clubs, hammer ect.
Even if we get new ones, at least noone will use it (Skeletons, maybe, but no players).
I find it really more important to get some new daggers.
You have only 3 real dagger types.
My first idea would be a snake sword in dagger form. So a shorter version of the snakesword.
Then maybe a two-headed dagger (2 blades come out of the handle), or some daggers with resticks.
Just some ideas, but there are many daggerfighters round here, and a smith can make a red dagger (best one, excluded magic ones) before making a morning star.(when he reached middle skill level)
Also some new armors would be nice, maybe not only metal helmets, but leather caps would be nice, aswell. Cuz i dont think a hunter will run around with a metal helmet when he is hunting for wolves ect. Oh, and not only 1 type of metal boots/gloves. (i know its alot, but would improve fighting)
Just some ideas.
Even if we get new ones, at least noone will use it (Skeletons, maybe, but no players).
I find it really more important to get some new daggers.
You have only 3 real dagger types.
My first idea would be a snake sword in dagger form. So a shorter version of the snakesword.
Then maybe a two-headed dagger (2 blades come out of the handle), or some daggers with resticks.
Just some ideas, but there are many daggerfighters round here, and a smith can make a red dagger (best one, excluded magic ones) before making a morning star.(when he reached middle skill level)
Also some new armors would be nice, maybe not only metal helmets, but leather caps would be nice, aswell. Cuz i dont think a hunter will run around with a metal helmet when he is hunting for wolves ect. Oh, and not only 1 type of metal boots/gloves. (i know its alot, but would improve fighting)
Just some ideas.
- Estralis Seborian
- Posts: 12308
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
- Location: Sir Postalot
- Contact:
After the next update of the fighting system, there'll be 15 daggers but still only 4 one handed concussion weapons.
I think one can include all kinds of weapons, so everybody feel free to download/buy a 3D modelling program and render some graphics. Otherwise, we don't have much to add to the game...
I think one can include all kinds of weapons, so everybody feel free to download/buy a 3D modelling program and render some graphics. Otherwise, we don't have much to add to the game...
I find that immensly silly, and most will never be used - also some are not obvious at all.Estralis Seborian wrote:After the next update of the fighting system, there'll be 15 daggers but still only 4 one handed concussion weapons.
Yes I'm sure we can assume 'simple dagger' is the least powerful.
But which is the better? Red dagger, ornate dagger, sharp dagger?
Not so obvious now is it?
There are tons of swords, so far most people use (aside from the magical weapons) serinjah swords, with a bit of an entry for elven rainbow and longswords. The rest rarely get a look in
BlenderI think one can include all kinds of weapons, so everybody feel free to download/buy a 3D modelling program and render some graphics. Otherwise, we don't have much to add to the game...
Its free.
For the record red daggers are not the strongest dagger, they suck actually. and the poisone versions should be counted as different weapons, as they do have an added effect. meaning there are plenty of daggers.Rekarafi wrote:I personally dont think we need more clubs, hammer ect.
Even if we get new ones, at least noone will use it (Skeletons, maybe, but no players).
I find it really more important to get some new daggers.
You have only 3 real dagger types.
My first idea would be a snake sword in dagger form. So a shorter version of the snakesword.
Then maybe a two-headed dagger (2 blades come out of the handle), or some daggers with resticks.
Just some ideas, but there are many daggerfighters round here, and a smith can make a red dagger (best one, excluded magic ones) before making a morning star.(when he reached middle skill level)
Also some new armors would be nice, maybe not only metal helmets, but leather caps would be nice, aswell. Cuz i dont think a hunter will run around with a metal helmet when he is hunting for wolves ect. Oh, and not only 1 type of metal boots/gloves. (i know its alot, but would improve fighting)
Just some ideas.
As too cuncussion weapons, can't we just make the staves more appealing? bring up the damage, and increase the speed a bit? seems most people don't use concussion skills but trust me high skills and a battle staff can do some good damage since the last changes on the system.
No one uses staves but they are concussion, not some seperate entity as they are always seeming to be catagories. So id say we have plenty of concussion weapons, just alot people never think to use, and probably because they aren't worth it yet.
Given that staves are 2-handed and slow, and the new parry/dodge system uses up action points, and you can't carry a shield since they're two handed, using a stave in combat will get you hurt pretty bad I would think.Athian wrote:No one uses staves but they are concussion, not some seperate entity as they are always seeming to be catagories. So id say we have plenty of concussion weapons, just alot people never think to use, and probably because they aren't worth it yet.
- Estralis Seborian
- Posts: 12308
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
- Location: Sir Postalot
- Contact:
- Juliana D'cheyne
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:14 am
- Contact:
..not necessarily.. there are other swords good to use also though that may change. I think puncture is good with the daggers. Concussion I haven't tested as much yet when I did it wasn't very effective, if that can be slightly nerfed either with increase speed or hit it would be nice.There are tons of swords, so far most people use (aside from the magical weapons) serinjah swords, with a bit of an entry for elven rainbow and longswords. The rest rarely get a look in
Have you used any of the current stave weapons? do you have a character with even marginal skill using them? The staff i most often use, the current battle staff is neither slow nor does it parry badly. I think its a sheer underestimation by people who probably don't have concussion skills or the right attributes. certainly they aren't the absolute fastest weapons in the game but not all of them move at the speed of the warhammer.Hadrian_Abela wrote:Given that staves are 2-handed and slow, and the new parry/dodge system uses up action points, and you can't carry a shield since they're two handed, using a stave in combat will get you hurt pretty bad I would think.Athian wrote:No one uses staves but they are concussion, not some seperate entity as they are always seeming to be catagories. So id say we have plenty of concussion weapons, just alot people never think to use, and probably because they aren't worth it yet.
The parry/dodge issue has never actually been an issue, the system still moves smoothly regardless of them taking up ap. So wearing light armor and weilding a staff you get plenty of dodges and parries. Its a matter of sufficent amount of skill. maybe the staves just aren't weapons for peope who want to have an easy time.
This same thing occured to some of the better fighter characters awhile ago when testing out weapons, Back in the buggy serinjah times. They started messing around with the good old double axe which of course couldn't possibly be a match for the super swift serinjah and found that in actuality not only was it a match but in the right hands it could completely outclass the Serinjah. having been on the recieving end of one of those axes i can say it was pretty much a slaughter.
In the end some weapons are simply more popular then others i think, so peoples actual knowledge of how effective they are or aren't is severly limited. alot of times what you find is the fighter character is a mixup of a bunch attributes and thus can't use alot of weapons to good potential and so these characters tend to switch back to certain 'default' weapons. Like serinjahs for example.