The Keepers of the Peace Guild

Farmar · Post by **Farmar** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:31 am

We are the Keepers of the Peace ........ well... rather me so far but o well any ways we i mean i try to keep the peace well as much as possible as a guild leader that is. When you join well if you do we have rules
1:if we catch you pk others we will band you from guild and if you still keep killing we will kill you
2:we protect others from being pk
3:we protect the city from destruction
4:we must help others against the battles of evil.

note:if like join send me a message

Farmar · Post by **Farmar** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:54 am

Dracon Fallaoq has joined

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 3:02 am

I am allways ejoying to watch a gulid like that arise, and fall.

I would like to add some points.

1. A "PK" is nothing you Charakter is allowed to handle. Because a PK is a Out of Character-Term.
You can try to handle murderer and these crimes but simply "Killing a PK" is not possible.
2. You Character does not have the rights to set up rules for others, only if some superiour beeing stands behind you and you actions which suppreses all other citizens with fear.
You are nither votet/elected nor have you born rights.
If you want to keep up any "town law", have a good time finding a written down one. Because after all there is no official law in Illarion.
3. How do you devide 'Good' from 'Evil'
From my point of you are "evil" because i get a feeling that you want to supress my Character with your matrial laws.
So please protect us from your presents.

As a final Note i want to add some words of my Character.

"I do not obey your rules."

Boremier · Post by **Boremier** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:16 am

Hey come on everyone diserves a chance so let him have his and I do not beleive he is "evil" he just wants to uphold the law.

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 3:25 pm

maybe the term murderer should be used instead of pk. Sometimes pk is necesary. (example: thieves, other pkers)

I see nothing wrong with someone wanting to uphold what is right. He is not trying to make the law, just trying to protect the weak.

Boremier · Post by **Boremier** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 4:08 pm

Very good point crocket.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:50 pm

maybe the term murderer should be used instead of pk. Sometimes pk is necesary. (example: thieves, other pkers)

The word MURDERER should be used always used when in character, PK is ALWAYS out of character, and therefore you can't, In my opinion make a guild to protect people from Pk, since your character does not know this word.

[/quote]

Seth V. · Post by **Seth V.** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:06 pm

Loki wrote:2. You Character does not have the rights to set up rules for others, only if some superiour beeing stands behind you and you actions which suppreses all other citizens with fear.

Famar wrote:1:if we catch you pk others we will band you from guild and if you still keep killing we will kill you
2:we protect others from being pk
3:we protect the city from destruction
4:we must help others against the battles of evil.

Allright. Loki. You said he doesnt have the power to set up rules. Well, he is creating a guild, so, therefor, he does have the power!

Farmar, i think you are doing a good thing. I would like to join also.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:32 pm

One last Question from my Side.

What law does he want to keep up?

There is no "Trolls-Bane-Lawbook" or the "Collected Laws of Illarion".
We simply dont have a *Law* at all.

To Seth,
if he uses his guild to keep up rules he set (because of the lack of an official law), he is "evil".
And according to his own rules, he hast to protect the public from himself.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:47 pm

There aren't any official rules, but there are things that are considered wrong. This things that are generally considered wrong are classified as crimes in Illarion society. It is a crime to set things within the town on fire without a very sound reason. It is a crime to kill someone because you don't like their fashion sense. It is a crime to keep people out of a public building because you don't want them in there (I think the only public building is the shop, but I may be wrong). It is a crime to steal from people. The list goes on.

Seth V. · Post by **Seth V.** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:04 pm

Loki wrote:if he uses his guild to keep up rules he set (because of the lack of an official law), he is "evil".

As for right now, i think you are evil Loki.
A) because you are keeping him to try to uphold a peace guild.
B) because you have no standards
C) because you dont see crimes as a bad thing

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:05 pm

Besides, the Rangers are more universally accepted as being the keepers of the peace in Troll'sBane.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:25 pm

Hmm, but I don't see much in game activity from the Rangers .. I am probably on a different time zone to the majority of their members. I don't think a guild should be dismissed because another exists with similar objectives. The more people trying to help each other the better, they will just have different ways of doing it. And with time they will get better at it.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 9:33 pm

Seth,

i consider that as in insult.
And because of the fact, that i only spoke ooc, i think you insultet my person.
Insults, trageting to the real Person, are forbidden on the boards.

Please keep that in mind.

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:35 pm

What are the individual crimes you will protect the town from and what are the corresponding penalties for each crime? This could actually lead to a system of law for illarion if carried out properly or could fade away into a laughable memory as so many other attempts at the same thing have done once they were rejected or seen as unwanted.

If you're going to protect people from crimes then you'll have to either stop them before they happen or punish people for committing them once they have happened. You should have predefined penalties for each crime and have them made public for all to see and debate over before you enforce the laws. I highly doubt people will cooperate with you at the moment because they're afraid of having laws forced upon them unwillingly but if you allow them to give their input as to what the laws and punishment are then some good may come.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:53 pm

Yes, I completely agree with you Niniane. But the only difficulty is punishment and accusations. Just because someone said it happened doesnt meant it did, I would only believe something 3 or 4 witnesses said, otherwise 2 people could be plotting to have someone wrongly punished. I hope there will be some way of putting people in a prison ...

Boremier · Post by **Boremier** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:57 pm

@Loki: I do think your being just a bit horrible to this person just because he's starting a new guild I mean calling him "evil" is'nt very nice and saying something like: "I like seeing these type of guilds rose and fall" I know that was'nt excactly what you said but its along those lines. I mean I never got any greif from starting a guild.

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:21 pm

Boremier, what Loki says is the truth. If the person starting this guild will be enforcing rules that the entire population or the 'voting' majority have not agreed upon than he is in a sense enforcing his own laws. If he's doing this, enforcing laws that are not accepted by others then he is being a tyrant and therefore an 'evil' man. He would be hypocritical in saying he is making a guild to bring peace when in fact he would be enslaving the community to his own renderings of law and punishment.

Many of these 'protectors of the good' guilds have been formed but nearly all have failed in the past. He was only pointing this fact out. As it is now there are no common laws in illarion. There is no book of laws. There are folk laws, laws that many hold as law but they are not written anywhere. There is no standard punishment for each law, no court of law, no law enforcement system or group. There are conglomerations of individuals who try to uphold the most basic and broad laws but even they do so by walking a fine line between hero and criminal.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:50 pm

you could always just set up a voting booth on the boards or in the game and people could vote say 80% and up the law is passed and 79% and down the law is given the boot, just an idea.

Dyluck · Post by **Dyluck** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:13 am

Voting is impractical and inaccurate. Actual number of residents of Troll's Bane are unregistered are unknown.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:06 am

well its just an idea!! i havent seen a better one.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:00 am

Trolls Bane will never have something like a Law, because no organisation or group rules it.
Silverbrand for example does have a king, so they have official laws and the right to enforce them.

Actualy i dont think that Trolls Bane does need a "Police Force" patroling the streets.
In an other self builded town its a completly different story.

Xerake · Post by **Xerake** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:22 am

There really isn't need for a police, because most people here have the common sense that many crimes equals death or punishment...besides, I rarely see true crime happen these days considering that there are only about 20 or less players daily...

::sighs::

I miss the old days.

Crocket · Post by **Crocket** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 3:41 am

Farmar wrote:We are the Keepers of the Peace ........ well... rather me so far but o well any ways we i mean i try to keep the peace well as much as possible as a guild leader that is. When you join well if you do we have rules
1:if we catch you pk others we will band you from guild and if you still keep killing we will kill you
2:we protect others from being pk
3:we protect the city from destruction
4:we must help others against the battles of evil.

note:if like join send me a message

This was the original message that started this post.
I see nothing in this message about creating any laws or punishing any crimes.

It basicaly says that the guild intends to protect the weak.

So can we get off this LAW thing.

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:13 am

If someone is being 'evil' it is against the mindset and thus the moral law of the individual who calls them 'evil'. When there is a group of people protecting others from what they deem to be morally unjust or 'evil' then this becomes the law they are enforcing. He originally wanted to protect against and punish PK's, which is an ooc action and not something to found a guild for. This is a matter for the gm's and not players, it is completely ooc and therefore not roleplaying to apprehend a pk or punish them or even protect from them.

This being said, all other posts were suggestions and criticisms designed to guide the maker of this protection guild into a better direction. One of roleplay rather than ooc action. Without criticism, kind or unkind, no improvements will be made.

If he would like to protect the town from the morally corrupt individuals (this is an opinionated topic because an 'evil' character does not believe that they are evil but that the group that call this individual 'evil' are the actual 'evil' group.) then they would have to do so by enforcing the laws of illarion. Driving out all 'evil' from the streets and protecting the good. If they're going to do this then laws and punishments must be decided on beforehand.

If they only want to protect against wild beasts and monsters that attack the town then good for them, they've proved to everyone who posted about the implementation of laws into their guild wrong in thinking they had a decent shot at a new guild on the horizon. One with imagination and fortitude to do what no others could. Instead, they would become yet another group of people who give their group a name of no merit to act in the same way as others have for ages past and battle the monsters that infrequently attack the town.

Caranthir the great · Sun Mar 09, 2003 10:14 am

@Loki.

Exactly. No-one can rightfully claim the land of Troll's bane, and becasue of that we will most likely never see anyone succefully making laws, controlling or even 'protecting' it.
These attempts, especially if poorly planned, will unleash the wrath of the people, and even if those who attempted the 'protecting' or whatever, they themselves will need protection.

We (the Silverbrand) have all right to our land, and therefore we can create any rules/laws we want.

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:09 pm

Elaborating on Loki's point, I believe that ((according to the story)) TrollsBane is a common meeting place, where all races can gather in peace and harmony. As such, rule breakers are dealt with, by the majority of characters by using their moral stand point-not a pre-determined list of rules and regulations.

Some players do act as Vigilantes, by taking the law into their own hands, but their number are low. Other's offer kind words, or convince the wrong doer to apologise for their crimes. Such is the Utopia of TrollsBane.

However, some races, growing weary of such a lackadaisacal society, endeavour to create their own societies, with rules, befitting of the moral stand point of their race.

For example an Orcen city may have no qualms about battles to the death, for the sake of honour or vengeance, but a human city, or Eldamaar may be disgusted at this, and bar such events from their own city.

So, in summary-TrollsBane is common ground for all races.

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 7:57 pm

One of the guilds that we enjoy to see rise and fall, with delusions of grandeur and great platitudes can be seen here...

http://www.forum.illarion.org/viewtopic ... 64&start=0

Farmar · Post by **Farmar** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 4:42 am

ya ya i get any ways i quit awail ago well see ya around if you play tibia

Bumbol Woodstock · Post by **Bumbol Woodstock** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:02 am

hmm..... if one was to take over the town with a large group of people, would they then be able to make whatever rules they wanted?

just a simple question of course.

Illarion.org

The Keepers of the Peace Guild

The Keepers of the Peace Guild

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