.

[Retlak]

Actually some GM's have been known to cloud players for not taking things how they want.

[Sundo Raca]

The worst quests dont involve the gms

Fixed that, because if things don't go how the PO planned, the PO gets annoyed and angry. Gm's just adapt and make it work.

I respectfully disagree. Gm quests tend to be very uncreative, because they are so strict on what they do.

[Pellandria]

I got to agree with Sundo here, I barely take part in quests, yesterday was my 4 in my whole illarion time as I can recall.

The problem behind this is exactly one thing...gm's tend to involve masses of players in their quests, which makes the quest itself slow and at parts even annoying, yesterday for example the whole giggling and laughing crap ~seriously~ killed my mood to even play on, while player quests tend to be more flexible, but alas there you normally miss the gm powers, we should have a few simple "quester" who just do things that are out of normal, take the roll from an npc and let him talk a bit or send a lone animal somewhere, maybe a monster in the mines to fresh up some miners, as long as it does not repeat itself constantly I'm sure people would look forward to these spontan small things instead of the huge ass quests.

[Greisling]

I hardly could imagine that I ever would type this:
Pella, I completely agree in that point with you






<----- fighting for that for months btw

[Zak]

I'm sure people would look forward to these spontan small things instead of the huge ass quests.

Well, have to say that I (not only me of course..) did as many small encounters as I could when I was a Quester and quite often the reaction was rather
"Oh no, don't bother us, we are training..!!"
"Come on, we are making love here!"
"((Uh..quest..*logs*))"
"((is it you, <insert GM-name here>..?))" <- and other disturbing things..
..etc..
..so you can imagine that the motivation isn't always up to 100% and we have to find out who actually wants our efforts.
Also every small entertainment, even the smallest, takes some time that GMs might not have everyday and of course as most of you know there aren't enough GMs to provide fun 24 hours a day.

Now before you say "Just appoint some more..", you cannot just make everyone who wants a GM .. *waits for rant*

The problem behind this is exactly one thing...gm's tend to involve masses of players in their quests, which makes the quest itself slow and at parts even annoying, yesterday for example the whole giggling and laughing crap ~seriously~ killed my mood to even play on..

@unfitting behaviour on big quests due to delayed progess and such:
The players have to roleplay properly, otherwise no quest can work, while they do a quest GMs are very busy doing lots of things in other windows to controll effects/spawns/scripts/lists/log onto another char (play several at the same time without loosing the overview..)/whatever..

[Sundo Raca]

Yeah i remember one of my characters having a really entertaining quest with zak, which was totally awesome. More of that kind of thing please guys

[Caecilianus Cathari]

The best quests dont involve the gms

Isn't that pretty much every quest now?

[Retlak]

All quests involves GM's now.

[The Returner]

There used to be a player ran questing group, I was a part of it in days gone by. It was possibly the second best thing in this game, and was removed for reasons unknown to me.

[Damien]

The reasons were, as far as i recall, a few of those players abusing the quester chars they got. One by giving own player chars GM tools, which were then used for skill-pushing and item-manufacturing. The punishment was quick and strict though.

Every such action is of course logged and the concerning player even knew that, and he did it twice - with the quester char of another player after his got deleted. Otherwise, it was a good (role)player of whom you'd never expect it.

While the most involved players did very well, stuff like that happened. A few of them who were most active/motivated and proved trustworthy as well were asked to become Quest GMs later, after a staff-internal voting.

So don't think the whole thing is "gone".

[Aegohl]

The reasons were, as far as i recall, a few of those players abusing the quester chars they got. One by giving own player chars GM tools, which were then used for skill-pushing and item-manufacturing. The punishment was quick and strict though.

....I don't want to get into ancient history, but I'm surprised that you of all people would be talking about that particular punishment. Nitram caught him. I banned him. However, the reaction of some other staff members was pretty sloppy and then there's the fact that when I quit the staff the player in question was unbanned only to commit the same act again...

While the most involved players did very well, stuff like that happened. A few of them who were most active/motivated and proved trustworthy as well were asked to become Quest GMs later, after a staff-internal voting.

So don't think the whole thing is "gone".

While it was so that some of the questers were made GM's (some even accidentally, amazingly!) the truth on why the player questing group went kaput can be put most precisely like so:

1. In the ancient days when we were a closed community there was a player-driven questing group with no GM-involvement or GM tools and it was good.

2. As time went on leadership in the group changed and it wasn't going so solidly. The player-driven group decided that they needed GM tools and such to do quests, but alas, there they opened the Pandora's Box, because with GM tools comes GM oversight.

3. The group, however, still suffered from inactivity and worse there was a certain player who, as Damien mentioned, abused his role in the team to go willy nilly with GM tools. There was also one occasion where the leader of the troupe went above it's authority and acted as a GM, however, this was excused for the one and only time because the player acted in the interests of the game (stopping a disruptive player when no GM's were on.

4. We attempted to reorganize things with more GM oversight and GM helpers along the way and rules on activity (where one who isn't active can be removed from the group and ones who are active are given more authority/use of tools, etc..)

5. Certain staff members retired (me, Japheth, the girls) and the GM helpers in the group were more or less eaten by the GM team, meanwhile failing to oversee activity in the questing group. Effectively we had a group with access to GM characters, quest characters with pumped skills, and so on and no oversight. Things got seriously ugly and there are players out there who are likely still among us and got away with incredible amounts of abuse without anyone doing anything.

6. I returned and abused my GM powers that I shouldn't have had to purge the group, delete it's GM's, and ban it's NPC characters with pumped skills, even though I was technically not a member of the staff. I bitch and moan for several months about how ridiculous that is. The end.

So anyhow, if you want to start a player-driven quester group, do it like Belegi did in the beginning. It gets ugly and stupid and blurs the line between GM and player otherwise.

[Belegi]

Good times, really, weren't they, Mitch?
It does not need much for a quest. You don't need monsters. You don't need fancy graphic effects. You need an idea and a plot!

[Aegohl]

Good times, really, weren't they, Mitch?
It does not need much for a quest. You don't need monsters. You don't need fancy graphic effects. You need an idea and a plot!

<3 Belegi

If there is one lesson that I learned during my tenure on the staff it is that motivation is a resource both limited and infinitely world-changing.

Occasionally you find a unique individual who can lead one of these groups and keep it active, but for every time you find one you've gone through so many that couldn't keep up, and even worse: it can be a thankless job that saps the motivation of those who have it.

[Misjbar]

Good times, really, weren't they, Mitch?
It does not need much for a quest. You don't need monsters. You don't need fancy graphic effects. You need an idea and a plot!

<3 Belegi! I loved the questgroup way way back. Too bad it didn't work out after some time.

[The Returner]

Would it not eliminate this problem if every single quest requiring a GM was run by the "real" or "full time" GM's or the staff in general?

Only allowing the GM abilities in an enviroment still controlled by the staff, but invented by the players.


Belegi is right though, you don't even need GM powers for most quests, in fact I know I and several people on that group used to submit ideas that woulden't ever need GM character support.

I think its worth another try quite personally.

[Jaren]

I feel this point was lightly touched on in the first page of this thread and I would like to bring it up as I believe it is noteworthy. In my humble and limited experience playing this game I have discovered the worst quests are the ones in which we have a demon, demon skeleton, lich, necromancer (insert whichever repetitive "evil" character) playing the role of a clown or humorist. I understand that many people enjoy quests that are less serious and more just good clean fun, I am like this as well. However I am of the opinion that there should be certain creatures that are used in the humor quests and some creatures should remain locked up and only brought out during the most serious, intense and dangerous quests.

It really screws with all of our roleplay if we play our characters as ones who are fearful of Demons, Demon Skeletons, Lichs, etc and the next day there is a demon, demon skeleton, lich etc who is running a trial or are seen doing erratic things which do not really contribute any serious tone to the atmosphere of the game.

This game has an age limit, I believe it is 14, (or is it 16?). In any case I enjoy the game the most when it is more adult content. (I do not speak of porn like some folks instantly thought of). By adult content I mean political intrigue, a new force of evil on the horizon and old (player played characters) enemies must unite to stave them off, or simply a day long quest in which a certain demon is causing trouble. That is what I find the most fun with Illarion because that sort of atmosphere is incredibly rare in an online game and one would never be able to find such things in games like WoW or Runescape.

My overall point is to not use creatures that are deemed as evil or dangerous for quests that have a humorist base to it. Use a talking pig or god forbid a human mage. When you use creatures that are deemed evil or dangerous for laughs then you end up diluting the overall fear and shock factor when a demon shows up and means business.

I feel that demons, demon skeletons and lichs are used a far too much and their appearances in trolls bane should be limited greatly.

Discuss

[The Returner]

The game is suggested for 16 year old players, but not strictly enforced enough, since a strict enforcation would lose players and also be impossible.

I enjoy more mature "thinking" quests also, but I like really simple quests. I remember joining one from the quest board(?) that was a simple painting competition, that was possibly my greatest quest memory so far, does it count as a quest? maybe. More of an event I guess, but well executed

[Damien]

The motivation Mitch is mentioning is a very important thing.

Just in my opinion, it's not that the thanklessness of the job is the main problem.
If you have a goal, for example to make the game fun for people to play it and keep a certain sense in the RP, trying to kinda tell interactive stories, motivation comes no matter if you are thanked or not.
But you can never make it right for everyone. Especially if two players get into conflict in some situation where you have to decide for one side. The NPC you are steering has to decide in the way he thinks. Just like : Who brought the nicer present to trade in for the plot-relevant artifact.
What will the little girl decide for ? The pretty flower, the raw diamond, or the huge poisoned sword ?
Just for whomever you decide, it's quite likely that the other side will complain to you (or to some uninvolved staff member). And the endless discussions and complaints as well as the insults about such simple things are what takes the motivation out of it.

[Tanistian_Kanea]

...no seriously. You have no idea how many players suggested quests with very likewise plot lines in a more serious tone and without any irony. Just add either the line "and swarm the whole island with undead", "and make my character rescue everyone" or "and make my character the uber lich master" and you almost hit the spot.

i remember that when naz something was some uber lich king thing and tried to take over gobiath. except for a few days when there where random monsters in TB it actually seemed rather pointless to me. I think we seriously need some more INTELLECTUAL quests. i remember one where there was this marble thing under varshikar desert though I never found out what became of it.

anyway as for snivels up top. yeah... had something similar happen to me a lil while back, sucks but no point bitching illarion staff out for it. for your skills, i'd say your bro killed ya more then a few times. @nitters for skills, i think he meant 70% of what he had... so like 70% of 70 would be 49 gone (i think). but back to your problem, it's not these guys here ya should be venting on, but if you want to kick your bro in the balls so hard his testicles become the consistency of apple sauce it might make you feel better. but if your leaving peace man.

Edit: wow... kinda forgot to read more then the first page there... oops. this should be posted like 2 pages back. meh.