Smelting Scrap metal

Basal · Post by **Basal** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:49 pm

Proposal: Suggest that all smithed items made out of iron be able to be smelted into iron ingots using the smelting oven. Of course, iron is lost in the process of smelting so a helmet that used up 4 iron ingots should only be able to be melted down into 2 iron ingots.

Reason: It makes sense, and it is line with other aspects of the game such as the use of ammunition whereby you can retrieve some of the ammunition used. Also, it is a good help to smiths, new smiths in particular, for which the obtaining of iron is a long and difficult process. In addition, it would make it so that all smiths do not necessarily have to be miners which is the case right now. In realistic terms, not all smiths in the medieval times were also necessarily expert miners just like not all bakers were necessarily farmers... but that is another matter.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:05 am

The reason that this proposal is going to get shot down, is simply because the ability to recycle stuff is bad for the IG economy.

With this method I can produce 50% more stuff for training, which means I don't need to mine much.

Also new smiths have it easy, you can get him up to a respectable level just by smelting a ton of ingots, and an even higher level by making stuff out of those ingots.

If you don't want to mine, hire someone who does

Basal · Post by **Basal** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:52 am

It is not good for the ingame economy for most smiths to also be miners, which is the case currently. This proposal put into effect would encourage more smiths to just be smiths.

Olive · Post by **Olive** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:00 am

the problem that is never adressed is that there is no real incentive for anyboyd to be a miner without also beign a smith

a couple months ago we had several miners who collected ore but they are all gone, replaced by maybe 1-2 people who will do it on the side but not as their prfession

therefore adding this cannothurt a piece of the economy that is already missing

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:01 am

/signed

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:15 am

IMO the main reason for nobody being a pure miner is the low money yield of this profession. When one comes home from a mine with 20 ore, a smith can craft... 10 goods after smelting and smithing and sell the goods to a NPC for e.g. 20cp. So, how much can this smith pay for a single piece of ore? 1cp or such. Will your character walk to a mine, risk breakage of a tool and avoid angry golems for some copper coins? Nope.

I suspect the downfall of the whole ore-smithing cycle is related to an exploit getting fixed a while ago, by the way.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:49 pm

You don't have to suspect, tell things as they are:

Since cows were banished from the deeper parts of mines, nobody feels arsed to go mining anymore because the concept "crafting together = fun" does not hold true. It's boring.

Even more if one of two people is doomed to wait outside with holding a mule while the other can go inside to mine, then walk at a tediously slow speed back to the mule to toss his ores in.

That's one reason why the prices for let's say gold ore have sky rocketed recently.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:53 pm

/signed

I think the staff have spent too much time making the system as realistic as possible. It's a great system and I thank the staff for thinking the time to implant it, but there are many things that I could live without.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:11 pm

FYI, I ment a different (much more severe) exploit, related to final products, not related to collecting raw materials.

On recycling: Recycling was turned down various times by the developers already. From the posts I read here, the problem is not that one cannot recycle iron products but that getting ore is a pain in the ass, compared to the benefit one has from it. Why not think about improving this state instead of adding a new feature that might result in a maybe less favourable state?

Drawbacks:
Even with a scrap rate of 50%, one can smith ~twice as many items out of the ore, the need for raw materials is reduced (less interaction, less jobs for low skilled chars)
From looted stuff, one can scrap lots of ore. From a plate mail, one could get 15 ingots - this does not feel right

Anyway, I am not a fiend of recycling itself, but to me, it appears like other things are out of balance and need to get fixed first instead of introducing something new that carves the current state into stone.

Olive · Post by **Olive** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:19 pm

well my arguement is that nobody wants to just mine without smithing as well so asking people to do somethign they do not want to do means that one half or the other half of the total equation must see some change.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:48 pm

Faladron wrote:You don't have to suspect, tell things as they are:

Since cows were banished from the deeper parts of mines, nobody feels arsed to go mining anymore because the concept "crafting together = fun" does not hold true. It's boring.

That's why we need pack llamas, they don't mind mountains

</discreet suggestion>

Christopher..Rigden · Post by **Christopher..Rigden** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:46 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
Faladron wrote:You don't have to suspect, tell things as they are:

Since cows were banished from the deeper parts of mines, nobody feels arsed to go mining anymore because the concept "crafting together = fun" does not hold true. It's boring.
That's why we need pack llamas, they don't mind mountains

</discreet suggestion>

I agree...

/signed