Buildings' shadows.

LifeWonder · Post by **LifeWonder** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:16 am

Could it be clearly written in the rules that hiding behind a building's shadows is unrealistic and against the rules?

Isn't?

Vern Kron · Post by **Vern Kron** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:37 am

It already is.

You can walk behind the buildings, but hiding behind them is not really fair.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:34 am

13. Bugs

Exploitation of bugs or technical limits (i.e. intentional server crashing, multiplying of items, using the technical shadow of a building to flee, ...) is strictly forbidden. As soon as you find a bug, you must report it with a detailed description at the Flyspray Bugtracker or to report the bug with the contact formular.

Please refrain from reporting bugs on the Illarion-boards. Abusing bugs reported this way is also forbidden. If you lose skills or items due to server crashes or bugs they will not be replaced. Quest items are the only exception.
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The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:13 am

LifeWonder wrote:Could it be clearly written in the rules that hiding behind a building's shadows is unrealistic and against the rules?

Isn't?

How is hiding in a buildings shadows unrealistic? I don't see this as a bug or an exploit. Just because some stupid person pisses you off by hiding isent a reason to take even more roleplay away from our more nefarious friends.

They once fixxed this before with boulders, but thankfully they didn't boulder every building shadow.

Kaila Galathil Travinus · Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:15 am

Whether unrealistic or not, it is against game rules according to my read.

Vern Kron · Post by **Vern Kron** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:41 am

The problem with this, is that when the other character goes into the building shadow, you can not see any other characters. So thus the character just can stand there for a long time and not be seen, even if the other person is two squares away.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:53 am

The Returner wrote:How is hiding in a buildings shadows unrealistic?

If you place something behind a box and you cannot see it, you can get up and look behind the box. In Illarion you cannot do that, and so these "zones" are called "shadows". It is already implemented, for example, that you can hide behind a number of semi-transparent objects and not be seen depending on time of day and the seeker's perception. In this way people can hide in wheat fields for real, rather than just having their chargraphic covered by layers of other graphics. Building shadows however are completely different than this.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:30 am

It might be noted that there is a big difference between running through them and "hiding".

Also, a rped hiding behind a building at night shouldn't be considered ban worthy either. A man in a dark cape and hood with his back up against a building at night would be impossible to see and therefore good rp if you someone would actually rp it.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:37 am

Julius wrote:It might be noted that there is a big difference between running through them and "hiding".

13. Bugs

Exploitation of bugs or technical limits (i.e. intentional server crashing, multiplying of items, using the technical shadow of a building to flee, ...) is strictly forbidden. As soon as you find a bug, you must report it with a detailed description at the Flyspray Bugtracker or to report the bug with the contact formular.

Please refrain from reporting bugs on the Illarion-boards. Abusing bugs reported this way is also forbidden. If you lose skills or items due to server crashes or bugs they will not be replaced. Quest items are the only exception.
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Hiding can be and is considered considered fleeing people's view. Running through them is fleeing people.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:40 am

There are times when the shadows of a building are inevitable.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:54 am

If your out of a shadow, and someone is in it, can the person who is not in it hear the other persons #me's?

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:08 am

Gro'bul wrote:If your out of a shadow, and someone is in it, can the person who is not in it hear the other persons #me's?

Yes, but they can't really see where you are.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:23 am

Lrmy wrote:
Gro'bul wrote:If your out of a shadow, and someone is in it, can the person who is not in it hear the other persons #me's?
Yes, but they can't really see where you are.

It then occurs to me that to drop a "#me runs through the building's shadow" if you have to cross through one to get where your going would be a good idea.

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:57 pm

no no no, this way it is just another exploit that is legitimate with such an emote.

One should ALWAYS avoid building shadows during a hunt. Only if there is really no other way and stay only the mere necessary time in the shadow.

But then make sure that it is clear for all others where you go into the shadow, of which building, where you leave the shadow.

Not just run at one end of the building into its shadow, drop that emote and then run through the whole shadow around the building and then leave the shadow when you think nobody sees it. That is a NO GO!

If necessary, wait for your haunters and drop other, more detailed emotes, like "#me runs straight into the shadow at the back side of the library", "#me looks anxiously back to his pursuers but then runs again straight to the bridge", "#me leaves the shadow and blinks in the sunlight, looking left and right, then decides for the direction to the shop"

Post by **Nitram** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:09 pm

There is no base of discussion and no exceptions.

Avoid the shadows of buildings else its possible that you get banned for abusing a technical weakness.

Nitram

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:46 pm

Nitram wrote:There is no base of discussion and no exceptions.

Avoid the shadows of buildings else its possible that you get banned for abusing a technical weakness.

Nitram

Is that truely your answer for everything?

Why not spend some time fixing things instead of banning people for bugs that could well be used for RP.

The one thing that hasen't changed in over eight years.

I've had some great RP exploiting bugs in this game. Granted 9 out of 10 times I got banned and slapped on the wrist, but it was worth it.

Either fix the shadows or fix perception, it cant really be that difficult. Maybe do that first instead of making fat and skinny avatars for us to have some trivial fun seeing how fat each other are.

Post by **Nitram** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:48 pm

One should think humans are able to learn and grow up and get mature.
Since you don't have any idea why the shadows exsist (you can't know that, since you are no technical staff member, so thats not the point) but you still blame us that we include rather a small new thing, that causes some fun and needs us 100 lines of new source code instead of fixing such a thing like the map shadows that needs weeks of work in the client and the server. And after this of cause a impressive amount of testing so our dear players don't get annoyed by the bugs that will create while the devoloping of a system that is able to work without map shadows.

And a thing you maybe should know, since you appear that you don't know it. We have a nice set of rules. The players are wanted to follow the rules. In any situation. There is nothing written down like "You can break the rules if all involved person are fine with it or noone is disturbt."
You must not break that rules. At all times. No matter of the situation nor the way the other players act.

Get this in your mind.

And please stop flaming persons because of your lack of knowledge. That doesn't make you appearing pretty smart, Returner.

Nitram

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:00 pm

Nitram wrote:One should think humans are able to learn and grow up and get mature.
Since you don't have any idea why the shadows exsist (you can't know that, since you are no technical staff member, so thats not the point) but you still blame us that we include rather a small new thing, that causes some fun and needs us 100 lines of new source code instead of fixing such a thing like the map shadows that needs weeks of work in the client and the server. And after this of cause a impressive amount of testing so our dear players don't get annoyed by the bugs that will create while the devoloping of a system that is able to work without map shadows.

Weeks of work? it must have taken them all of two-three days to put boulders in for the rest of the technical staff. Too many donuts makes Nitram lazy.

And a thing you maybe should know, since you appear that you don't know it. We have a nice set of rules.

I've been aware of the rules for the past eight years, thanks.

The players are wanted to follow the rules. In any situation.

Any situation?

There is nothing written down like "You can break the rules if all involved person are fine with it or noone is disturbt."
You must not break that rules. At all times. No matter of the situation nor the way the other players act.

So even if its in the interest of making the game fun, which you seem to have in your mind over top of technical stability which would make it less easy to ban people for "Exploiting" things, no matter the work involved. I guess pretending to be like microsoft and EA games gets to your heads. Please give us more rampant featuritis! we love the broken systems, unbalanced stats, fat people, and completely un-fun crafting system! give us more! no, wait, not us, I shouldent speak on behalf of the sheep. Me.

But why does Turny count? I mean I'm a player and everything, but that means nothing to the staff apparently. As much as a prick I may be, I still play your product, and you would think, that because of that, you might consider hearing me out instead of re-flaming me on something that will take "weeks of work". When you yourself arent even interested in looking for easier loopholes and just want the final product, of course that will take weeks.

Get this in your mind.

And please stop flaming persons because of your lack of knowledge. That doesn't make you appearing pretty smart, Returner.

Please stop flaming me because of your lack of guidance. Don't think that everyone with a suggestion has no idea whats going on. Why dont you go make another shiney feature that doesen't work properly.

Tinya · Post by **Tinya** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:18 pm

I have no idea what this is about, any game you play has a set of rules, and I haven't seen a game YET that did NOT say don't exploit bugs. As far as being able to "fix" said bugs, IMO it will be placed on a priority, this being fairly low on the agenda. It is very simple to avoid most of the building's shadows even as a "bad" guy, and the shadows shouldn't be used as part of a plan either, there are other ways including RP ways to achieve fun and the same goal.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:18 pm

Oh I agree its possible for players to work around the bug in favor of the rules. But thats not the technical staffs job. Their job is to fix bugs and implement new, well tested features. And lately its been one "new flashy" turd after another.

This game was technicly sound in 2001. And well developed in 2003. And now the bastards busted.

I want some frigging bug fixes if their so worried about exploited bugs.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:34 pm

Hm, VERY harsh statements on both sides...

Anyway, just a question:
It is very hard to implement highlighting borders around characters/NPCs within building shadows (maybe some problem with the issue, that the client is not "intelligent" enough about positions etc.?)?

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:44 pm

AFAIK, your client does not know what is in the shadows of a building. That information does not get transmitted. A demon could stand there, a boat, Batman, Chuck Norris, anything. Your client simply does not know. Thus, there is, also AFAIK, no simple option to highlight characters there (that your client does not know to be there). The problem is how the map works, but a dev might know more. The only practical option is to place boulders in the shadows, leaving some gaps here and there for RP-opportunities. This would be up to our map king, though.

PS: Lovin' Turny & Nitterz

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:25 pm

Estralis Seborian wrote:The only practical option is to place boulders in the shadows, leaving some gaps here and there for RP-opportunities. This would be up to our map king, though.

PS: Lovin' Turny & Nitterz

Thank god a voice of reason.

<3 Estralis

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:08 pm

question:
do i have to finish my habit, to put my (not hunted) chars to "sleep" in building shadows?
(i do that, to not "wake up" in middle of other chars, interrupting their play)

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:10 pm

Korm Kormsen wrote:question:
do i have to finish my habit, to put my (not hunted) chars to "sleep" in building shadows?
(i do that, to not "wake up" in middle of other chars, interrupting their play)

Thats a really great idea!....unfortunately, its against the rules. I bet you'll get warned now

Tanistian_Kanea · Post by **Tanistian_Kanea** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:35 pm

i generally go out in the shadow of a tree or similar. just so i am not noticed as much.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:30 am

The Returner wrote:
Korm Kormsen wrote:question:
do i have to finish my habit, to put my (not hunted) chars to "sleep" in building shadows?
(i do that, to not "wake up" in middle of other chars, interrupting their play)
Thats a really great idea!....unfortunately, its against the rules. I bet you'll get warned now

13. Bugs

Exploitation of bugs or technical limits (i.e. intentional server crashing, multiplying of items, using the technical shadow of a building to flee, ...) is strictly forbidden. As soon as you find a bug, you must report it with a detailed description at the Flyspray Bugtracker or to report the bug with the contact formular.

Please refrain from reporting bugs on the Illarion-boards. Abusing bugs reported this way is also forbidden. If you lose skills or items due to server crashes or bugs they will not be replaced. Quest items are the only exception.
top

Nice try, but look at the highlighted portion of text.

Illarion · Post by **Illarion** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:06 am

Korm Kormsen wrote:question:
do i have to finish my habit, to put my (not hunted) chars to "sleep" in building shadows?
(i do that, to not "wake up" in middle of other chars, interrupting their play)

Nah just do what I do, fall asleep in heavily populated areas so you can wake up attack someone then log out before anyone is the wiser...wait...I am NOT??!!?!?! supposed to do that. Okay well dont listen to me

Also as for rocks in shadows SCREW THAT, i was there when they did this it sucked

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:51 pm

Illarion wrote:
Also as for rocks in shadows SCREW THAT, i was there when they did this it sucked

Why?

if you cant use the shadows anyway, why not use rocks, or hedges, pretty vine hedges, anything.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:59 pm

You would prefer rocks as barriers in all shadows instead of the current situation?

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Buildings' shadows.

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Re: Buildings' shadows.