Alternate societies / sense of justice

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:34 pm

Inspired by this topic, I'd like to brainstorm with you about alternate senses of justice. As we all know, Illarion "suffers" from ideas like emancipation, enlightenment, human rights and democrazy

. Some of these ideas might be present in certain Illa-cultures, but an albarian nobleman will simply laugh his ass off when somebody tries to explain him this stuff. Anyway, here are some very first thoughts how Illa-societies could be like, different from the already known ones, described by Damien:

Safe haven
Upon committing a major crime, the accused one is banned from his home. The family of the one he has done harm to, is responsible for his safe passage to a special town, where "criminals" may dwell without any punishment. Every attempt to take revenge on the accused one are punished by extinction of the family. Whenever the accused one leaves the safe haven again, he is free as a bird (in terms of fair game).

Voice of the majority
When a trial takes place, the accused person and the accuser shall bring all those who support one party to the trial. No witnesses, no evidences, just the number of supporters decides who is right and who is not.

Eye for an eye
Jews might know this principle, whenever one claims that somebody else has done harm to him in any way, twice this harm is done to the accused person. This also holds for the whole family - when a mother loses her son to an accident, two sons of the family of the one who caused this accident are slain in a way, as similar as possible to the accident.

Money makes the world go round
As simple as it is, for every crime, there is a fine. Who pays the fine is as not-guilty as ever before, no matter what crime. Who does not pay the fine (or cannot), loses all he has and ends as slave. Slaves have, of course, no rights and thus, must not commit any "crimes".

Maybe you also have ideas how alternate societies could work?

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:42 pm

Julius Rothman the fat King. Thats a great society.

Ivar Kraftimarm · Post by **Ivar Kraftimarm** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:43 pm

first thing i got in mind after reading your post was the "schuldturm". someone who did a crime was imprisoned in a tower to get the money of him. primary used for crimes of traders like swindling or fraud.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:52 pm

The reason we have democracy in game is because it is an idea we all know. One that happens to make no sense what-so-ever in Illarion. Well, alright, since we also have an astonishing amount of players who care about everyone's welfare, we will have a system like this. I often hear: "My character isn't played wrong, they are rich and a good person, so they will give money to everyone and have a happy-go-lucky democratic world. That's how the kind kings in this time period worked, right?" I say we kill off all the goody goodies and put a follower of Nargùn in charge.

Djironnyma · Post by **Djironnyma** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:53 pm

Magic judgement

A mighty mage goes into the mind of the accused and look at his memories if he is guilty.

Judgment of Nargùn

All accused stand in a circle, in the middle is a chicken witch get druggy with lot of Sibanac. The accused, to witch the chicken walk is guilty.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:54 pm

We tried to kick the goodies out and put Silas in charge, and the traders then closed down and the citizens declared it was outrageous.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:11 pm

And we got a huge group together, you caught wind of it, and surrendered.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:13 pm

Julius wrote:And we got a huge group together, you caught wind of it, and surrendered.

That makes no sense to what Alex posted.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:16 pm

Julius wrote:And we got a huge group together, you caught wind of it, and surrendered.

Umm.. no, Silas went on holiday and the rest of us decided it wasn't worth the effort because of the reasons I listed above..

Greisling · Post by **Greisling** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:16 pm

Fire judge
The accused person has to stand in flames for a certain time. If the person would survive the gods proved that he is unguilty.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:17 pm

Sure it does. You have to have the education of a three year old to understand it though.

And get on msn and be quiet, we have to talk.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:19 pm

Drop them off a cliff and see if they die. Then decide if they're innocent or not using a completely different basis. It has the same outcome regardless.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:22 pm

Hard Labour

The guilty one is forced to work depending on the crime he has committed. He is considered guilty unless he collects enough wood, or ores or whatever. Nobody is allowed to sell him the items

Public Humiliation

Person is whipped in public, or tied up and have vegetables and fruit tossed at him.

Branding

"Here is a thief" burnt on the arm, or face or wherever.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:36 pm

might i humbly point out, that the nordmark has laws, fitting for the world we play in?

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:36 pm

Korm Kormsen wrote:might i humbly point out, that the nordmark has laws, fitting for the world we play in?

Nope.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:59 am

Julius wrote:
Korm Kormsen wrote:might i humbly point out, that the nordmark has laws, fitting for the world we play in?
Nope.

Worst Method of Execution

A Rothman is found, and drugged. Victim is dressed up like a female and placed into room containing said Rothman.

Ayla · Post by **Ayla** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:26 am

*Cough* Who said anything about them needing to be drugged?

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:56 am

That was a good one, actually.

Konrad Knox · Post by **Konrad Knox** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:50 am

*resists mentioning a Gorean society*

ToniBengal · Post by **ToniBengal** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:08 am

*gives a cookie for resisting... doesn't want to hear about being eaten by tarns...*

As with most societies, it’s not what you know its who you know, why not a system of Guild leaders or since most of the guilds around seem to be of a knightly nature, (though it would be fun watching the Knights of Kallahorn and Knights of Gobaith argue over criminals) City leaders, sitting counsel style to condemn criminals based on reputations.

"Oh that’s such and such's daughter, she couldn't possibly have taken the bread."

... That or the Justice by Nargun... Drugged chickens are the way to go in any -civilized- society.

Konrad Knox · Post by **Konrad Knox** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:21 am

I swear if you get the majority of population to do it Nargun style, my char will support it. Go with the flow, so to speak. Though you might add it would be nice to have an occasional drugged pig thrown in.

HolyKnight · Post by **HolyKnight** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:57 am

Hear Hear to the reign of NARGUN! with the accent thing that I cannot add. Just like the witch hunts in the Medieval Era making people do things that in no shape, form, or fashion have anything to do with their crime or present any logic to punish people is the way to go. Corruption is needed and power with coin is always a trump card. *drags Cromwell back to the throne of Trolls Bane*

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:02 am

Hold alt gr and press u.

You can thank me later.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:36 pm

Julius wrote:
Korm Kormsen wrote:might i humbly point out, that the nordmark has laws, fitting for the world we play in?
Nope.

that was clear....
Fat, criminal, horny nighties (sorry:Knights) never listen.

Tinya · Post by **Tinya** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:43 pm

Good and evil Kings and rulers, inequality, "public" punishments, http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/me ... _order.htm

((I would say any "maiming, or permanent change with ooc permission only however)) would be great. Bring Nargun, let the "outrage" begin.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:09 pm

I myself am liking eye for an eye :/

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:25 pm

Looky here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_me ... punishment

Vern Kron · Post by **Vern Kron** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:36 pm

Oh! Here is an idea!
Exile: You stole a loaf of bread, as punishment you are taken to the Three Sister islands, and left there without a boat! Hopefully some wandering ship will find you.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:33 pm

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:Looky here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_me ... punishment

LOL, crushing by Elephant!

Those are some pretty painful methods, sawing xD

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:54 pm

Vern Kron wrote:Oh! Here is an idea!
Exile: You stole a loaf of bread, as punishment you are taken to the Three Sister islands, and left there without a boat! Hopefully some wandering ship will find you.

Yeah so a bunch of Sirani priestesses sail there and make give them the time of their life, great idea.