The Tailoring Skill

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 4:13 am

I dont believe I see the relevance of making even more skills to worry about, at least in tailoring. True, weaving and spinning (though it would not be very hard) would be skills, but shearing? Can someone please tell me what is so hard about hacking off some wool? I mean sure, you don't want to hurt the sheep or anything, but that is more a matter of hand-eye coordination, something more along the lines of just role-playing it out (#me slips and accidentally cuts the sheep). I think that right now we have enough skills as is, weaving would be an alright skill, but if you add more, where does it stop? Soon enough you'd have a skill for gathering water in a bucket, or walking around.

My point, if not already clear, is that not everything needs to be a skill to be role-played properly. Some things would only work to increase the work of the Illarion staff. A skill that would be something to consider is cooking (not baking). I never understood why you can cook ham flawlessly...

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 5:12 am

@Cain I think you don't see the point. This is all based on -realism. You presented a bad example though about having a skill for "gathering water in a bucket". Don't tell me that shearing a sheep is on the level of difficulty of "gathering water in a bucket". That just does not make sense. And if weaving and spinning were implemented as new skills they would not be "easy" to increase skills, though spinning could be...They would be whole new crafts unto themselves with valuable items. I agree somewhat though that perhaps having "shearing" as a skill would be a bit too much.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 7:11 am

Shearing itself is rather simple, spinning would be more difficult, weaving would be more difficult.

I saw that normally the woman of the house would spin the wool and the man would weave it.

Although this was just in one culture.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 8:08 am

How is it a bad analogy, Elaralith? Gathering water in a bucket requires hand-eye coordination, so does shearing. Both are quite simple.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:25 pm

It is a bad analogy because the skill difference required between shearing and "gathering water in a bucket" is vastly wide. A mere child can gather water, and children were expected to gather water for the household in the medieval times. No mere child would be even allowed to come between the shearer and their precious sheep. There was a whole class of people in the medieval ages (full grown adults) that practiced the profession of Shearing sheep as Shepherds. Shearing sheep still needed to be learned though I admit it probably was not too hard. But as you can see there is a wide skill difference between shearing and "gathering water in a bucket".

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:20 pm

If I was a tailor I would be making a LOT of leather armor and cloth armour about now.

The change I had stated that would be made to make tailored items more valuable has gone into effect.

You should find a demand for tailored items now.

And I know that a LOT of people are not going to be happy with the change.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:12 pm

A good change. Well done.
However, I noticed that people start pushing themselves around when they are unable to move. Maybe it would be good if this would be disabled too.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:24 pm

I support Adano with his request to disable the Ability to Push themself when they are encubered.

Fieps · Post by **Fieps** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:18 pm

Completely my opinion, i like the changes too. And pushing themself if somebody is encubered should be disable.

I hope in the future it becomes not possible to "transport" things/goods with throwing, which exceeds the own carrying capacity.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:42 pm

The being able to push oneself while encumbered was an oversite. I"ll take a look and disable that.

The throwing things I would like to keep, however, as it does make logical sense. Also, there is the chance that a thief will take the things you are throwing about.

Fieps · Post by **Fieps** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:12 pm

But the problem is that maybe "throwing" from goods becomes as a way out of the encumbered.

In the past there were already people, which did this, but I believe now it will drastically rise. Above all occupations, which require a long way to depot.

I have nothing against throwing things, but i dont like it when people
e.g. throw 50 wood loogs, because they cant carry more or thus they can walk faster.

Perhaps it would be possible to reduce the number from "throwing things"?. For example that we can throw only 5 pieces at one time.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:18 pm

But I don't see any way to disable that. Even if you limit the amount of thrown items people would just need to throw severel smaller amounts instead of one bigger.

Fieps · Post by **Fieps** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:24 pm

Ups i wanted to say the same/ said it; but i had the idea later after sending the first post.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:10 pm

You should be able to 'throw' things when you are encumbered.
But, you should not be able to throw them another time (Because throwing an object most of the time requires lifting the object from the ground) So, I can throw this pile of iron into somewhere, but I can't move it anymore, since I am already too burdened to do that.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:22 pm

Realistically, if you can carry something if you were not encumbered, you can throw it.

Even if it means, in RL, I have to drop something first, then pick it up and throw it, then pick up what I dropped...

It's not the easiest thing to throw things, though if you do it a lot you can become quicker at it.

Encumberance was not really introduced so people couldn't gather as much, but as a more realistic way of "controlling" what people with low strenght can and can't do.

It just wasn't realistic for people to be walking around in plate mail with an extremly low strenght.

We don't want to say, well, since you picked a low strenght you can't carry more than a twig.

What we want to say is, if you pick a low strength, you will be limited as to what you can equip yourself to. Without unrealistic "your strength is too low to wear that item" type of messages. If you can lift it, you can wear it. You just can't move that fast when you got it on.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:26 pm

Will there be a "grafic-fix" in one of the next versions?
If you are very encrumbered, and you character moves on slowest possible speed, the Motion-Phase of the Char-Grafic ends but the Char still moves.
So there is some kind of "sliding" Effect for the Chars.

Edit:

I love the "Illarion Walz"! Good Joke Serp.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:01 pm

It's the Illarion Waltz. Step, step, slide... step, step, slide...

Yes, that will need to be fixed in the client

Drathe · Post by **Drathe** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:04 pm

This is very nice little game add. (Even if annoying) But doing hard manual work like lumbering and mining, does that slowly improove your strength. If not would you consider making it so?

Just as skills increase over time, why not strength, it would seem a little silly if it does not improove.

I dont mean like you can end up like superman walking round like you have two water mellons under each arm, but increase a little in relation to your chars original strength.

Loki Feuerhaar · Post by **Loki Feuerhaar** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:43 pm

But if it is possibble to raise your Attributes like skills, than it is theoreticly possible it create a "Super-Char" with all maxed-out Stats.
I dont like that idea.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:53 pm

Base stats do not change.

Skills and knowlege changes.

Your str is not really a reflection of how strong you ARE, but how strong you can BECOME. Which is why a swordsman who works on fighting can do more damange over time as he becomes stronger... (even though his Str stat doesn't change).

Just as a mage can cast spells better over time, as he becomes smarter, even though his Int stat doesn't change.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:14 am

@Separdum I agree and disagree with you. If it is a child that is growing up then certain of his "stats" will change such as strength. Others such as intelligence and essence are a born with trait. As for such things as Wisdom they increase with age...And such things as agility and dexterity increase with training...You see what I mean? But I think stats should definitely not be changeable because afterall this is a game, and certain things must be set to prevent everything from going chaotic...like super-chars with max stats everywhere.
Glad to hear the new "Encumberance System". I would also like to propose for items such as chain mail and plate armor to be somehow increased in value...something where even a master blacksmith will take many tries and waste much resources to forge just one item. Because right now chain mail and plate armor are more common (though because of the 10x system they are a bit less now) than they should be in a medieval era setting...

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:36 am

yes, but that has to wait for the new manufacturing system. Which isn't today.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:03 pm

for such things as Wisdom they increase with age..

Wrong. Age does not bring wisdom, observation does.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:04 pm

*Double post*

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:07 am

@Caranthir Not wrong, you just did not perceive the hidden meaning. Through age one acquires more observations and experiences and comes out with some Wisdom. To shorten it most people just say that " with age comes wisdom" with the words observation and experience implied!

Roke · Post by **Roke** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:57 am

Regarding the wisdom thing, a person who is 15 could be wiser than a 50 or 60 year old person because the 15 year old has gone through a lot and kept an open mind while the 50 or 60 year old has kept a closed mind and not done much.

Niniane · Post by **Niniane** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:03 am

Roke that is a very good point. There are many youths who are much wiser than the older, closed-minded ignorant people of like minds to members of the KKK or similar groups. These youths will only grow wiser with age, but age does not necessarily spawn wisdom.

Serpardum · Post by **Serpardum** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:10 am

Let me put it this way: Basic stats (str, int, dex, etc... ) are not going to change after a character is made in the normal events of the game.

Doesn't matter if anyone agrees or disagrees with it, that is part of the foundation of the game.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 2:44 am

@Serpardum I for one realized that fully, and that is why I said

But I think stats should definitely not be changeable because afterall this is a game, and certain things must be set to prevent everything from going chaotic...like super-chars with max stats everywhere.

Elaralith · Post by **Elaralith** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:17 pm

I must once again push for weaving and spinning to be made separate and new skills! New evidence I have found that shows clearly that there were the professions of spinners and weavers in the medieval ages

Of the crafts, the largest one was in cloth making. And, it is in cloth making that the first industrialization occurred during the Middle Ages. By the Middle Ages, the location of textile production was usually a household where the man was the weaver and the women prepared and spun yarn for the loom.

As you can see weaving and spinning were separate from each other and of course frm tailoring. They were practiced skills that were highly valued.

Read this fully realize how complicated both spinning and weaving were:

Holding in her left hand the distaff, a short forked stick around which a mass of the prepared raw fibers was wound, the spinster took some of the fibers between the finger and thumb of her right hand, twisting them together as she drew them gently downward. When the thread thus produced was long enough, she tucked the distaff under her arm or in her belt and tied the thread with a slipknot to the top of the spindle, a toplike rod with a disk-shaped weight attached to the bottom to increase rotation, and gave it a turn. The suspended weight pulled the fibers slowly through the spinster's fingers, while the rotation twisted them together into yarn. The process depended on the practiced skill of spinster in controlling the release of the fibers. Drawing out more fibers from the distaff, she repeated the operation until the spindle reached the floor, when she picked it up and wound the spun thread around it. When the spindle was full, she wound the thread into ball."

found at this highly reliable resource: http://www.mastep.sjsu.edu/history_of_tech/middle.htm
New valued items should be implemented for both weaving and spinning that are sellable to Eliza as all other items produced from other crafts are.