Just throwing this out there

Sundo Raca · Post by **Sundo Raca** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:01 am

Im still waiting for a gm to give me a reason why my request is denied, other than 'its against the rules.'

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:15 am

Im ignoring alot of posts here because many of you have not been around long enough to answer this.

I read Damiens/Nalzaxx/Nitram's answers and yes they are dead on. When a big quest occurs there is ALOT of bitching from the community, that is why such quests have stopped happening. People bitch and bitch about "forced" RP by GMs... which really annoys me... I never thought anything was better than when trollsbane was taken over for a month (atleast) and all players were locked out. That is when i witness some of the best RP.

But then you had people like Sam (PO Strephen Rothman) Who bitched ENDLESSLY when he didnt have his way in quests, for example a very short lived drow quest in which a drow kidnapped Sam's cybersex partner and sam bitched on the boards and over MSN until the quest was put in the guillotine and stephen got to kill the drow with ease...

Like Nitram said... until some players in the community can learn they are not the center of the world and stop bitching about large quests and how "they dont want to be involved" and "some other people got to be heroes"

I once had an idea for a "flood" quest, that turns all level 0 tiles into water, forcing players onto city roofs and mountains. This would force random players into areas together forcing them to simply RP. Possibly making bridges from roof to roof. People RPing starvation, Dev team adding boats that lead to mountain so people can scrounge for food. I thought all of this would be a hell of a lot of fun in gmae. Though i thought of this around the time a large number of players bitched about GM "forced" rp and watched a number of quests be executed because of it. So i never bothered proposing such a quest =P

Post by **Nitram** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:20 am

bdgdkay wrote:im not blaming you for this ,Nitram,

Its not like you can blame me for this.

bdgdkay wrote:but,

But is bad

bdgdkay wrote:because there are some players who cant pull their heads from their arse, you are going to give into them and make other's ig experience suffer?

Yes.
Because the players who got "their heads out of their arse" tend to help the these bad players at any given point. As in the way that they do not report the offences against the rules they make and similar stuff. That causes that the common "head in the arse" player doesn't give a shit on the stuff the GM's tell him. And so they never change. If the "head out of the arse"-players start making the others clearly know that they dislike what they do. Only then anything can change. Until then, everyone suffers.
Internal education.

bdgdkay wrote:Isn't it true that you are the moderator?

No its not true.

bdgdkay wrote:If you give into a few people who think they are better than the rest of the players, you may as well call them moderators.

Don't get this.

bdgdkay wrote:I wish I didnt have to put it that way, but it is the truth in every sense of the word.

I don't get this as well.

Nitram

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:22 am

Sundo Raca wrote:Im still waiting for a gm to give me a reason why my request is denied, other than 'its against the rules.'

Umm... what other reason would you need? 'its against the rules' is 110% reason to deny a request

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:23 am

Bow to the man, he speaks true.

I have witnessed myself how strong some things in-game are influenced oocly and what players can do if they do not get their way.

I also witnessed that people not even after they get properly defeated stop for a moment to be big bragging big mouths of annoyance.

Sundo Raca · Post by **Sundo Raca** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:27 am

Salathe wrote:
Sundo Raca wrote:Im still waiting for a gm to give me a reason why my request is denied, other than 'its against the rules.'
Umm... what other reason would you need? 'its against the rules' is 110% reason to deny a request

I mean a reason for how it could damage anything ig. Its like they're doing it for the rules sake, instead of the sake of the game itself.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:30 am

Sundo Raca wrote:
Salathe wrote:
Sundo Raca wrote:Im still waiting for a gm to give me a reason why my request is denied, other than 'its against the rules.'
Umm... what other reason would you need? 'its against the rules' is 110% reason to deny a request
I mean a reason for how it could damage anything ig.

Cuz everyone will then ask for raised stats because they are a warchief from some never heard of tribe? Why are you guys specials? Why cant i get GM pushed? Your player quest will go fine without being pushed.

its a simple rule everyone has to follow

Sundo Raca · Post by **Sundo Raca** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:36 am

Salathe wrote:
Sundo Raca wrote:
Salathe wrote: Umm... what other reason would you need? 'its against the rules' is 110% reason to deny a request
I mean a reason for how it could damage anything ig.
Cuz everyone will then ask for raised stats because they are a warchief from some never heard of tribe? Why are you guys specials? Why cant i get GM pushed? Your player quest will go fine without being pushed.

its a simple rule everyone has to follow

I dont want my character pushed, its the mage character we want pushed, simply because it takes literally several months for them to be able to do anything

And yes, if those people can arrange everything the way i have, get people togethor, create ****load of backstory and planning, then yes they should ask and receive the same thing

bdgdkay · Post by **bdgdkay** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:37 am

you know, ive had a rough day, im tired of argueing about all of this, i just wanted to help introduce a new quest and bring abit of excitement to the game, but you know, i give up.because some people cant get over themselves, i guess noone will be able to go through with this. thats all there is to it, and if someone could lock this thing up, that would be great. maybe it can be pulled back out one day when all of said people can just accept that they are NOT the center of the universe. And you know, this is really worse to hear it this straight forward this late, as i just spent the last hour or so trying to make up a story line to satisfy those of us who can handle taking part in the quest. So, once again, thank you all for posting, but im done with this

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:39 am

You could do one thing Sundo:

Learn how to have fun WITHOUT winning, as clearly, this tribe will not stand a chance against the rest of the island.

You might even be able to as Nitram puts it be a "head out of the arse" player and put in feedback as to how people responded towards your quest and probably get a chance to tell the gamemasters about people who slipped up, like:

"#me is a rather big man with messy hair and exotic clothing. He wears tribal tatoos and a big ring of metal pinched through his nose, scarrs add to the fierce expression upon his face.
#me calls out at the man infront of him a dialect hard to comprehend, perhaps just ramblings of intimidation with no greater sense behind, raising his spear in a threatening manner.

other player: #me draws his sword
other player ctrl klicks and pwns you"

And if you do powergame it up hard just to be able to defeat other characters better in engine fights, then that quest has failed its purpose already.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:40 am

Sundo Raca wrote:And yes, if those people can arrange everything the way i have, get people togethor, create ****load of backstory and planning, then yes they should ask and receive the same thing

Some go through a shitload of work and planning and background story for their "regular" characters already. So how should that be fair?

Sundo Raca · Post by **Sundo Raca** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:49 am

Faladron wrote:You could do one thing Sundo:

Learn how to have fun WITHOUT winning, as clearly, this tribe will not stand a chance against the rest of the island.

You might even be able to as Nitram puts it be a "head out of the arse" player and put in feedback as to how people responded towards your quest and probably get a chance to tell the gamemasters about people who slipped up, like:

"#me is a rather big man with messy hair and exotic clothing. He wears tribal tatoos and a big ring of metal pinched through his nose, scarrs add to the fierce expression upon his face.
#me calls out at the man infront of him a dialect hard to comprehend, perhaps just ramblings of intimidation with no greater sense behind, raising his spear in a threatening manner.

other player: #me draws his sword
other player ctrl klicks and pwns you"

And if you do powergame it up hard just to be able to defeat other characters better in engine fights, then that quest has failed its purpose already.

Actually i never intended to 'win', its not about our characters winning, im doing this because i enjoy creating new types of character, rping with them, seeing how things pan out etc.

Incase you hadnt noticed.. im not asking for 50 pushed uberpwnage knights of the round table to come in and burn down the island. I wanted our mage to be pushed because it simply doesnt make rp sense for him not to be.

I have no idea what the second part of your post is reffering to.. i mean if everything in illarion revolved around rping then things would be fine, but we all know they dont, which is why i asked for this. Surely things would be more interesting for the rest of you if we were somewhat skilled though? *shrug*

Anyway, its not the end of the world either way, we can have fun whatever.

Sundo Raca · Post by **Sundo Raca** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:54 am

Faladron wrote:
Sundo Raca wrote:And yes, if those people can arrange everything the way i have, get people togethor, create ****load of backstory and planning, then yes they should ask and receive the same thing
Some go through a shitload of work and planning and background story for their "regular" characters already. So how should that be fair?

if they are part of a quest with consequences for the rest of the isle, then yeah they should be treated the same.

bdgdkay · Post by **bdgdkay** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:54 am

hmm, i thought about it foir awhile now, rather than sitting here argueing it out with everyone, is there just a moderator people can go to in order to submit quest ideas? or maybe work out quest plans?

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:10 am

Another thing that can be done is rp quests created by the players. Like the knighthood could go on a "quest" helped by gms for some object that would be put in the castle. Or the druids could do a quest with the gms about meditation and helping a mentaly sick man. Hell, players can even get together and make up mini-quest. It is hard to create entertainment, and wars are difficult to do. It is either the "bad guys" give up before the war starts/get pwned too quickly. Or people war against them and when no one is ig one side or the other marches into town and attacks the other side.

Things just get crazy ig. Something can be thought of. Preferably something non-ctrl-click crazy.

And check with any quester gm. They normally take quest ideas.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:17 am

Sundo Raca wrote:
Faladron wrote:
Sundo Raca wrote:And yes, if those people can arrange everything the way i have, get people togethor, create ****load of backstory and planning, then yes they should ask and receive the same thing
Some go through a shitload of work and planning and background story for their "regular" characters already. So how should that be fair?
if they are part of a quest with consequences for the rest of the isle, then yeah they should be treated the same.

Then everyone will have pushed chars... because anyone can make up a quest with consequences for the rest of the isle... its not hard.

AGAIN... its a simple rule everyone has to follow... END OF STORY

bdgdkay · Post by **bdgdkay** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:17 am

it is a good idea, but it doesnt help that i dont know of any quest gms, or else this post wouldnt be here

bdgdkay · Post by **bdgdkay** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:19 am

as it said in the war tribe post, if you have a pushed char, then the char will be deleted the moment the quest is over so then not everyone will have a pushed char

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:21 am

I think you can PM nearly every GM. If s/he has no time currently or isn't responsible for it, s/he will forward your message to another GM.

First GMs that come to my mind: Arien, Estralis, Zak

/edit: If you need any technical advice, you can ask me aswell.

Sundo Raca · Post by **Sundo Raca** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:23 am

Salathe wrote:
Sundo Raca wrote:
Faladron wrote: Some go through a shitload of work and planning and background story for their "regular" characters already. So how should that be fair?
if they are part of a quest with consequences for the rest of the isle, then yeah they should be treated the same.
Then everyone will have pushed chars... because anyone can make up a quest with consequences for the rest of the isle... its not hard.

AGAIN... its a simple rule everyone has to follow... END OF STORY

Trust me.. it is hard to do

De Leon · Post by **De Leon** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:25 am

I have tried to create an interesting story line with The Watcher but one character does not make for a great storyline.

pharse · Post by **pharse** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:26 am

De Leon wrote:I have tried to create an interesting story line with The Watcher but one character does not make for a great storyline.

You have to involve every relevant POs, like the leaders of your opponents.

De Leon · Post by **De Leon** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:31 am

What makes it impossible is that nobody has any interest in playing the protagonists, sure The Watchers got one recruit but that didn't last, no npcs equals no story.

De Leon · Post by **De Leon** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:54 am

I am probably an old man by standards here (52) and have rp'd and gm'd since D&D first came out, not so used to computer rpgs, so maybe I have gone about this the wrong way, any advice would be apreciated.

(edited because I don't want to make myself any older than I am).

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:29 am

Excuse me, but all I got from "the watchers" was more or less "laughable" some unknow assasins who never ever did anything, we got too many "want to be bad" chars here, whichs only strength is not deceiving or anything else but powergamed skills and best armors and so on, maybe you should first killed off someone and say "here look what we did" than maybe one would have joined.

De Leon · Post by **De Leon** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:31 am

Very constructive, thank you.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:59 am

Its very difficult to play a bad character, and even more difficult to play one effectively. You have to be very careful about it and take a lot of care over the whole situation.

Nalzaxx was overall a fairly successful evil guy, but I still made a lot of mistakes and he was far from perfect. It just takes experience, patience and knowing both the game, and its players intimately.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:58 am

HA! You guys are crazy.. One day you're screaming that you had enough conflict that you're bored of the temple always shking up things and the next day you're moarning that nothing is going on and you're bored. Will you make up your mind already?
I remember my first days here, the days when the old temple (he one under Nalzaxx) was ruling. I remember being so excited about it, always looking for info, always searching for the members. I remeber meeting Nalzaxx in a cave, the lich that I have only heard tales arround the fire about, I was so scared and excited that my heart was beating like a drum.
How can you want all this back, when you're the ones that ruined it? again and again and again

Juliana D'cheyne · Post by **Juliana D'cheyne** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:06 am

People have their own RP they do and some seem to want no interference in the plans.... for those, have a "safe" no quest ever place set up. During a quest they can stay there, one idea is Tol, it is mainly quiet all the time. Then the ones that complain have absolutely NO reason to at all. *shrugs*

Konrad Knox · Post by **Konrad Knox** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:10 am

Naerwyn's Knights of Dawn quest ROCKED!
It was a big freaking quest 5 weeks long, and we loved it! Even brought tears to a few eyes.

I say, a good epic quest should have enough everything for everyone. Healing for healers, politicking for politicians, and war for warriors.

Too much politicking is just as boring as too much fighting, it all depends on what you personally like to do. If people just talk, it becomes a rat hole, if people just fight - a tank of sharks.