Balancing: Kochen/cooking

[Athian]

peace dude, i wasnt really having ago at you, i just think people should be encouraged to treat food more as an rp system, since the technical concepts seem rather unbalanced, and changing it looks more trouble than its worth.

I certainly wouldnt look down on someone who plays more for the technical aspects, its their choice i guess. #me shrugs

thats all fine and dandy but without any technical aspects to food who's going to buy anything expensive? Cooks want to make money so they need to have some advanatage to there food in the technical sense as well. and that technical aspect will benefit not just fighters or mages or or archers. but everyone. Everyone has to eat, so why not do something interesting with it while it's on the table.

We have a large audience of people in the game now. Some of us like rp, some of us like technical stuff, some don't care and some (like myself) like everything and want more in all sections. Either way i can only suggest something. If its to much work then it doesn't happen, but it doens't mean you shouldn't voice your ideas.

[pharse]

Actually I expected a list like:

By eating bread the foodvalue is less lowered when doing the following crafts: ...

Applecake will boost you in ...

Sausage dish will give you a bonus of ....

etc.


That's why I wrote:

Please make a proposal how exactly you want to diversify the dishes

[Athian]

I will when i take the time to think of it. Unless your scripting it right at this very moment your going to have to wait a while. I have some ideas on the matter but i can't sort them all out right away in the mean time feel free to make some suggestions.

when i've compiled a list i'll put up my thoughts for anyone who might care to read it.

[Gro'bul]

I don't think anyone thought of this yet (sorry if its mentioned).

Have it effect the good day/bad day system! So this way someone with a great diet has much less chance for a bad day. My character who's diet mainly consists of beer/wine/mead and cherry cake/lamb dishes woke up this morning feeling alot weaker than normal. No fair!

[Fianna Heneghan]

A couple of things I noticed in this topic that I don't think are quite right:
@ ThisGuy - food potions don't seem to be bad for a character's diet
@ Estralis - I think the problem with needing to move things from your bag to your belt has already been corrected

I agree with Athian that raising the price of potions so much but keeping them uncraftable is rather punitive. Perhaps while the details of the craft and druid systems are still being sorted out, potion making can be put back in game?

Before the craft update, rabbit dishes were harder to make than steak dishes. Fianna with her cooking skill near yellow couldn't make rabbit dishes before the update. Now they are the second item on the menu. This definitely makes it easy for characters to keep slaving away at their particular skill without having to interact with another player to buy food. I'm not sure if I'd vote to change that, I'm just pointing out how it's now different than it was. Cooks are less needed than ever because of the ease of rabbit dishes, which take the fewest ingredients and fill you the most, and because food potions give players a good diet.

As the PO of a cook character I would vote STRONGLY AGAINST re-instating the malus of free foods. During that period, Fianna got mobbed every time I logged her in. Rather than having more rp, I had less because it was impossible to keep up with the demand.

If I had to pick one thing to change, I'd ask to have meals be stackable. I know it seems like a fussy detail, but that would make it so much simpler to store and trade food.

If I could pick a second thing, I'm liking the idea of crafting potions again. It would make the newly raised NPC price seem more reasonable and it would give druids some added value while the mechanics of the new druid system are still be worked out.

[ThisGuy]

@ ThisGuy - food potions don't seem to be bad for a character's diet

sorry...just going by the only imformation I had on the subject(diet system thread and illapedia) like I said in the other thread in which food value was brought up theres no way to know whats actually good for you and whats not ie: lizards like fish, but I never get a bonus even though thats all I eat.

[Lennier]

Okay, could we test the higher price of potions at first for some days/weeks before we complain about it?

It is true, potions can not be made by player currently. That is a fact and will not be changed until we have a druidsystem (in which potions will be powerfull and not so cheap like today).

The intention of a spontanous change of the price was following: Food need a worth. But what is the real worth? What is the worth of a cherry cake, which is traded by NPCs with 150 copper coins? It is too much? Between some players a rabit dish or a cake also has a worth of 50 copper coins.

In same time food potions cost only 25 copper coins. Mana was around 50 coppers, poison 35, strong healing 80-90 copper coins. There was something wrong, in a time when our chars have more and more money, more than in any time before..

In my view these potions, which only can be get with monster-drop and NPC-trading, should be more expensive compared with food. They raise healthy, mana and the food bar instantly. They are like a first-aid kit. That should cost much more.

The easiest way at the moment was to raise the price of potions at a common value - 100 copper coins in Greenbriar and 150 in Trolls Bane (Greenbriar will have an advantage by this?).

In general only food potions, poison and mana is lifted up. The raise of 10 copper coins for strong healing potions in Briar is tiny.

Like said before, the potions were a spontanous decision of me. We will see how it works.

When our volunteers, which recalculate the need, worth and producibility of all items, we will change it propably again.

[Lexis Katarino]

Ich möchte auch was über die Fische schreiben:

Wer von euch isst eigentlich rohen Fisch?
Fisch kann man in einer viertel Stunde reichlich bekommen um sich, für schwere Arbeit(Schmieden), einen Tag lang zu ernähren. Kann man es eventuell für Fisch so einrichten, dass man diesen auch nur Gebraten/Geräuchert essen kann wie beim Schinken?
Ich bin kein Dev und habe von sowas auch nichtt viel Ahunung welchen Aufwand es bringen würde.

Ich kenne nämlich genug in Illarion die sich nur von Fisch ernähren, was eigentlich vollkommen unlogisch ist. Denn in RL isst auch keiner von denen nur rohen Fisch, und wenn, dann nur gebraten oder ähnliches.

Echsen könnten Fisch ja weiterhin roh essen.


Aber ich denke, dass das viel zu aufwändig ist.

[Pepe Zwirnfaden]

Ich möchte auch noch einen Vorschlag machen:

Mir ist heute aufgefallen, das alle Gerichte in der Teller Katgorie Fleischgerichte sind.
Das ist ja nicht weiter schlimm, nur gibt es dafür recht wenige Suppen.

Wenn wir uns schon am Mittelalter orientieren, bin ich dafür wenigstens noch ein paar mehr Fleischlose Gerichte einzuführen.

Einmal könnte mann eine art Eintopf einführen.:Zwiebel, Kohl, Karotte, (Tomaten ?)
Und ganz wichtig eine Suppe auf Getreide Basis.:Getreide, Äpfel, Weintrauben ( Das Rezept ist von einer Haferschleimsuppe abgeschaut.
In echt ist da natürlich noch mehr drinn, z.b. Milch. Und die Weintrauben sind Rosinen.)

Ich hoffe doch das es nicht zu viel Arbeit macht diese zwei Grafiken zu erstellen, und die Items dann im Client( oder was auch immer ) einzubauen.
Die Getreidesuppe ist übrigens Sandfarben und etwas grobkörniger als Grießbrei.

Falls es solche Gerichte schon geben sollte, und ich sie nur zwecks niedrigen Skill noch nicht kenne, dann entschuldige ich mich schon mal

[Gro'bul]

@ ThisGuy - food potions don't seem to be bad for a character's diet

sorry...just going by the only imformation I had on the subject(diet system thread and illapedia) like I said in the other thread in which food value was brought up theres no way to know whats actually good for you and whats not ie: lizards like fish, but I never get a bonus even though thats all I eat.

Well you have bad/normal/good foods for each race. I think raw fish would be a "normal" food for a lizard offering no negative or positive effects. Something like a fish or salmon dish probably is "good" food for them. For halflings, cherry cakes are good food in their diet and the harder steak dish is only normal (clearly halflings like sweets).

[Gro'bul]

Just out of interest I was looking at some calories of alcohals and food-
A loaf of whole grain bread is about 1600 calories.
A can of beer (12oz) has about 200 calories
A glass of wine (6oz) has about 130 calories

I think currently drinks have alot less food value than they ought to.

[Sundo Raca]

Just out of interest I was looking at some calories of alcohals and food-
A loaf of whole grain bread is about 1600 calories.
A can of beer (12oz) has about 200 calories
A glass of wine (6oz) has about 130 calories

I think currently drinks have alot less food value than they ought to.

We dont want warriors taking beer around as food supplies, as awesome as it sounds, lol.

[Rincewind]

if drinks make you lesser hungry, you couldnt make party, when you are full.

[AlexRose]

So don't?

[Gro'bul]

We dont want warriors taking beer around as food supplies, as awesome as it sounds, lol.

Why not? Beer lasts exponentially longer than bread. The preservation of grain harvests and the purification of water contained was essential to human existence before the discovery of modern medicine. I have heard that there are records from Egypt, showing that more grain was turned into beer than bread.

[Olive]

as a professional cook (among other things) i have to chime in here.

i've actually not had any trouble selling food. In fact its flying of my shelves as fast as i can make it, although its looking like my onion crop isn't going to last all winter. the 4000 grains i got havested certainly are making a pile of bread and i have been selling a hundred loaves at a time to some players.

if i was going to change anything i would make rabbit stew after sausage dish and first fish dish. and make it require the dinner roll instead of the sausage dish. maybe even switch the onion to the sausages and the carrot to the rabbit.

oh well just my 2 coppers, although i do see food potiosn are 150 coppers

[Sundo Raca]

as a professional cook (among other things) i have to chime in here.

i've actually not had any trouble selling food. In fact its flying of my shelves as fast as i can make it, although its looking like my onion crop isn't going to last all winter. the 4000 grains i got havested certainly are making a pile of bread and i have been selling a hundred loaves at a time to some players.

if i was going to change anything i would make rabbit stew after sausage dish and first fish dish. and make it require the dinner roll instead of the sausage dish. maybe even switch the onion to the sausages and the carrot to the rabbit.

oh well just my 2 coppers, although i do see food potiosn are 150 coppers

This is all down to the food potions becoming unbuyable. Before, noone would have come to you for food.

Things are much better now.

[Borine]

On the farming note can something be changed about those onions being grown in the north?

[Olive]

considering that onions are needed in 80 million food recipes where as the rest are only for a couple here and a couple there, itwould be nice if onions were not so limited.

oh, and some of us already practise a form of crop rottaion so no soil quality junk please

[Gro'bul]

On the farming note can something be changed about those onions being grown in the north?

I'm not sure why they haven't just made it so you can only grow certain crops at certain parts of the year. That seems to be the most fair and balancing thing to do.