Fair Trade

[Llama]

Allright, this idea aims to:

1) Make trading of resources fair for everyone
2) Help beginning crafters out
3) Make people spread to nearby towns
4) Make resource collecting heavily dependant on how much the owner has invested in the town.
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Currently, in some cases, the advantage of a town is unfair. What is unfair is the allocation of certain resources, which are beyond the player's control; and these, when we're talking basic things, in my opinion should be removed, or left up to the players.

To give an example, silverbrand has the best mine a stone's-throw away from the village, while trollsbane is the closest to the 'best' monster-hunting spots.

The intention may have been good. Yes we need trade between towns in order to create more player-player interaction. However here comes the problem:

Beginner players can't afford to buy stuff in bulk from someone else

From what I remember of the prices, coal and iron were both sold at 3 coppers each. Which is something that the beginner crafter can't afford.

So in my honest opinion, stuff like that should be equally-as-easily accessible to everyone.

So what shall be traded? Put in special substances, a different metal for example, which allows you to build stuff of greater quality. Or a different 'special' metal which is needed to make the higher-tier armor.

A crafter of that level would be able to afford to buy stuff in bulk.

Result: Everyone has access to basic resources needed for their craft.
Higher-quality crafters will need access to special items which are only found in certain towns.

A good example of this in action is the 'plants don't grow everywhere, but wheat does'. A beginner cook can still cook basic items, but he needs to get the others from somewhere.
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Now, if we look at all the resources, we find out that they are all within the player's control, except:

Coal/Stone/Ore/Gems
Clay
Sand
Monsters [Yes, added them as a resource]

Now, clay and sand aren't a problem. Since they're above ground, you can go with a cow, dig up as many as you want, and you're done. Mining isn't the same thing, firstly you have to GET to the mine over the rocks and other assorted stuff in the way, then you have to leave the cow, enter the mine and walk a bit till you get to the rock, and you have to keep doing this until you're encumbered. Repeat. Oh and pray the cow hasn't gone for walkies.

So in my opinion, each settlement (trollsbane,caelum, zzyathis, nordmark, silverbrand,greenbriar,varshikar, ect...) should be able to get their own mine, within the confines of the settlement.

They should go and speak to a mapdev, who will determine the price (See: Underground rooms ect...) and give them a mine with all the 4 basic resources, and perhaps some gems.

That way, its within the players' control which town specialises in what. If trollsbane decides it wants to attract more miners, it can fish out more cash and get a larger mine, similar to it could get more pigs to attract more tailors.

Also each town should have (nearby) some basic monsters in order to attract fighters, just a few mummies and skeletons if needs be.

Discuss.

[AlexRose]

Maybe we can also set up a Co-op supermarket to sell the goods.

[Pellandria]

I like the "basic idea" behind this, but I don't think this will be able to be put to use, sure it would be awesome if every town has a "special" ressource, which can only be gathered there and only by the citizens of the town, on the other side I would hate to see mines pop out of thin air, especially with the small settlements like Nordmark, which is like two or three houses, Caelum, which is just one house or Zzyathis, which only has a temple with some decoration.

If you want to include special ressources the crafting system would yet again need to change and I don't know if there are enough citizens in each town to deliver enough special ressources to the market.

Edit: Just wanted to add, I don't think it would be such a good idea to give everyones the opportunity to have free mines, rich towns would just pump out huge mines, while those who are allready poor couldn't afford the "building" of mines, furthermore I think we should really think about lowering the gems to one mine only, there are far too much gems in the market.

[Llama]

They wont pop out of thin air, they'd be umm, mining projects, someone paid money and resources to start digging underground looking for resources, and was lucky.

I don't think they'd be the problem of tiny settlements getting them, because they'd need a workshop before, and it'll be expensive to make something like this.

If you want to include special ressources the crafting system would yet again need to change

I wouldn't think so.

Lets for example say there's a different wood, called umm oak.

So you could have "Battlestaff" and "Oak Battlestaff" in the crafting screen, but the only difference between them would be that the oak battlestaff would be +1 quality.

Nothing changed.

Otherwise small additions wont need a new system, as it is currently (Shields need: Ignots, Nails, Paint -_- ect...) you could add something like that.

[Pellandria]

Yeah but we miss the grafiks for the "special" items, we have no actually tree to gather new wood, as all is allready used up, and its hard to keep that "wood" just under one towns controll, mines on the other side are fairly easy to controll, if they just get locked up by the towns, but if you want one special ressource for each town than we got to less crafts or you mix the special ressources, like "underwater ore = faster", "dragonsteel(dwarves ressource)=more durable", but that would mean you either make only a few items upgradeable or you make every possible connection avaible, which will be quiete fun to scroll trougth.

[Korm Kormsen]

on the other side I would hate to see mines pop out of thin air, especially with the small settlements like Nordmark, which is like two or three houses, Caelum, which is just one house or Zzyathis, which only has a temple with some decoration.

i agree.
if any, we should go halfway.
it would not be right, if (for instance) nordmark would have a mine.
talking about making charcoal, being less effective than mining, would be another thing.

[AlexRose]

There can't be a mine on Briar because the land doesn't have any ore and isn't deep enough to mine in .

[Vern Kron]

Since when are resources always fairly distributed in cities?
If that was true then America would have lots of oil, gold, silk worms, all sorts of great stuff. These disadvantages are a part of daily life, and that is that. We are playing a fantasy rp game, not "everything is fair for everyone" That would be boring. Disadvantages can lead to trade and alliances, and would make an entire area unused. Ex. If the copper mines had coal in it, then no smith would leave troll's bane.

[Llama]

Since when are resources always fairly distributed in cities?

Since it was supposed to be a fun game

If that was true then America would have lots of oil, gold, silk worms, all sorts of great stuff.

It does -_-

These disadvantages are a part of daily life, and that is that. We are playing a fantasy rp game, not "everything is fair for everyone" That would be boring.

Being 'fair' makes the game fun. Why can't I play a human smith without needing to pay off some dwarf or going to mine a long walk away.

Disadvantages can lead to trade and alliances, and would make an entire area unused. Ex. If the copper mines had coal in it, then no smith would leave troll's bane.

Read the post, I already answered the question, more then once.

[Lrmy]

This just seems like an easier way to gain crafting skill to me. I mean, getting iron and coal are easy feats no matter where you are on the island. Besides, we don't want/need 1000 uber smiths running around.

[Llama]

I mean, getting iron and coal are easy feats no matter where you are on the island.

Silverbrand
Varshikar

nuff said

[Vern Kron]

Yes, Silverbrand, and Varshikar. Oh wow, I am so surprised that -dwarves- have minerals that not everyone has. Resources are fine as it is. Coal is fine. Coal is like the IG oil. Its under tight control, and it is needed. I mean, Varshikar has coal, but it does not have fir trees.
And yes, the game is meant to be fun, but does fun = uber easy? Its an rpg, not everything is gonna be fair. Essentially, it is fine as it is. I have my character -walk- there. Normally with multiple people, because it is fun rp. And if your character(s) are too lazy to walk to the places, then have them become a citizen and no more problems!

[Lennier]

I think it is fair like it is now.

Tell me any example, where ressources are under control of players? I mean under control in kind of technical limitation, like a closed gate.

All ressources are reachable for everyone in technical view.

Remember also, that i changed the mines a bit only 1 week ago. I specialized them more than before. But we still have and we have again new examples, where you can find your basic ores and coal.

We only have 3 mines inside of a territory - with political possibilities to make ingame limitations, to collect taxes for the use (ist not the same as a gate which close the mine). These mines are in Silverbrand, Varshikar and Tol Vanima. These mines are "basic mines". That mean that they have ore and coal - together.

Beside of it we have 3 mine ares in the copper mountains. And yes, since the change 1 week ago, you can also find there a small amount of coal. Explore these areas. They are reachable for all. And we have the northern mine and the mine in the desert.

With all these mines outside of a territory you also can collect all needed stuff.

Gems are a special thing. Nearly every mine (in and outside of territories) have only 1-2 kind of gems. But in moderate/large number.

Within a small dungeon you also can find Merinium.

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That the dwarves have the best mines is untrue since i am the chief of the map. Compared with the dwarves noone need much more food to gain a unit of ores or coal. They have a basic mine about 3 levels within the large caves, which are reachable for all. But the success to get the material is far away to be the best.

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That the location of the mines are not the best for beginners, who have no idea how illarion works, could be true. But how we can change it? I gave a small amount of coal to the copper mountains, like said before. It is enough?

And no.. we can not make, that every settlement has an own mine. We need something to trade. We need a reason, why people trade. The gems are one thing. But that's not enough. Why do we need everything in all towns? Personally, in the begin i was against it, that every settlement can buy tools as much as it want.. or farmland. By this all settlements become unit. It is equal where i let live my character. But it should not. If you wnat to play a miner, go to an area where we have a mine.

If you want to play a smith... allright, nearly every little settlment has a smithery. If your smith want to mine his own, he has to travel.. or to look for the best place for him, where he can work as miner and smith. Maybe he need to interact with other people to can do this. Maybe he has to lie to the goverment, that he loves their place, only to can get his ores there. But why not? He also could overthrown local goverments, if he do not like their politic and taxes against miners, which are not their citizens...

Apropos other settlements. I am not the reason, that zzyathis or whatever was built where it is located now. It was the wish of the players there, before i lifted up more stricted rules. It is not my propblem. If any damn guild build in middle of nowhere, without a mine in near.

It is a problem of our new guilds. They are found only to get a building.. without any concept where and how to lift up the acitivity of the group for more than only few months. I get sick of them... I do not want to create such stupid things, only to can remove their "houses" months later, because they began to think to late, that the location was wrong.

[Llama]

I was not aware that the copper mountains had coal. Thank you for that, its a good step in the right direction.

@ Vern: I already discussed my reasons why BASIC goods should not be used for trade.