so, here we can converse about different opinions concerning the prices.
i hope, we are able to do it without spam and flaming.
1. topic:
prices of field products and seeds
i strongly recommend, that seeds will have the same price, as the product. - reason: one does harvest about the same quantiy of seeds and the work is the same. if different the seeds should be more expensive because of the longer wait.
i see no reason, why the different vegetables (excluding grain) should have different prices.
i suggest 3copper per product or seed.
2. grain:
i would suggest for a price of 2copper.
the hay-bundles, that contain up to four grains,(as far as i know), should be 4copper each.
milling is easy, so i would add just one copper for the work - 3copper per flour.
making dough is more work, so i would add two coppers for that. dough 5copper.
the baked endproducts should be calculated by their needed materials plus 20% for the cook.
3. woodcutting:
i think, every type of wood should be the same price.
the work and the food consumption are very similar. (the more needed types have the bonus of sellable twigs and branches as byproduct)
i think, the price for wood should be 2 or 3 copper each.
4.bricks:
bricks are an easy made two step-product.
i think, 1copper per clay and 2copper per brick should be enough.
your points of view?
pricelist discussions
Moderator: Gamemasters
-
Korm Kormsen
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:46 pm
- Location: Illarion nordpol, wenns den gibt...
-
Korm Kormsen
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:46 pm
- Location: Illarion nordpol, wenns den gibt...
why?
one plants, one waits, one collects with a sicle. one click for each fieldfruit.
or - one plants, one waits longer and collects with one click the seeds from one field.
i think, the longer wait equals the additional clicks.
on the other hand, the harvest in seeds is not big. if a farmer does not want to run out of seeds, he has to harvest seeds every second (in the beginning) or every third time (with yellow skill) planting.
seeds are scarce, so they should have a good price.
edit: alex' question was, why the seed should be the same price.
(don't know, why he took it out again)
one plants, one waits, one collects with a sicle. one click for each fieldfruit.
or - one plants, one waits longer and collects with one click the seeds from one field.
i think, the longer wait equals the additional clicks.
on the other hand, the harvest in seeds is not big. if a farmer does not want to run out of seeds, he has to harvest seeds every second (in the beginning) or every third time (with yellow skill) planting.
seeds are scarce, so they should have a good price.
edit: alex' question was, why the seed should be the same price.
(don't know, why he took it out again)
-
Estralis Seborian
- Posts: 12308
- Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
- Location: Sir Postalot
- Contact:
Just a general thought about prices: When I read "1cp", "2cp", "3cp" I want you to keep in mind that this is the lower end of resolution we have with our currencies. In simple words, there is no price below 1cp and 2cp is twice as much (as in 500 and 1000). I am well aware that some goods are worthless and thus are traded in bulk for copper coins. But nobody says this has to stay this way, am I not right?
My idea (as tryint to be proposed by one of my characters right now (yadda guess who 
):
A raise at the lower end of the system.
No raw resource should sell below a price of 10 copper coins.
Reason?
Nobody bothers to gain raw materials as there simply is no incentive to do so (other than using them to craft for yourself).
If prices would be higher down there, there'd be more people to actually go and gather resources.
Also, more people would earn some coin and would also be more willing to spend them on things produced by others.
):A raise at the lower end of the system.
No raw resource should sell below a price of 10 copper coins.
Reason?
Nobody bothers to gain raw materials as there simply is no incentive to do so (other than using them to craft for yourself).
If prices would be higher down there, there'd be more people to actually go and gather resources.
Also, more people would earn some coin and would also be more willing to spend them on things produced by others.
Faladron, that is wrong. There are people who sell raw matierals, and people who buy it. They want to save money by gathering it themselves, but some are willing to pay. You may not know if it at this point, but that character you talking to WAS selling raw materials, to people who were building houses. He made a LARGE amount of money from ONE project. You just gotta wait for the right momment.
-
Pellandria
- Posts: 2604
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:06 pm
- Location: Running around
- Contact:
-
Thorin Solfgar
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:43 pm
- Location: Citizen of Varshikar
@ Pellandria
This is what Estralis intends. Because 1 copper is the smallest amount of
money in the game. To improve the acuity of the currency.
if every price ingame is quadrupled for example, no real change of prices
happened only the number is bigger.
The question is only how to handle actual saved money. Add money until
it fits to the new price range, or if the NPCs give reasonable prices again,
let the crafters earn the money.
This is what Estralis intends. Because 1 copper is the smallest amount of
money in the game. To improve the acuity of the currency.
if every price ingame is quadrupled for example, no real change of prices
happened only the number is bigger.
The question is only how to handle actual saved money. Add money until
it fits to the new price range, or if the NPCs give reasonable prices again,
let the crafters earn the money.
-
Thorin Solfgar
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:43 pm
- Location: Citizen of Varshikar
@ Vern:
One reason for this debate is to reestablish the possibility
that a crafter buys his ressources and don't collect them
himself, produce something and sell the product to an NPC
with a small revenue.
I play a smith with a decent skill, but if I won't mine myself,
or get money from trades with player, I could not afford to buy
ressources. Simply because the NPCs pay much less for a product
than the necessary ressources cost.
Of course it is intended to favor the player to player trade. But especially
the low skilled crafters don't produce the quality which attracts other players
to buy their products. So they suffer while they train their skill.
One reason for this debate is to reestablish the possibility
that a crafter buys his ressources and don't collect them
himself, produce something and sell the product to an NPC
with a small revenue.
I play a smith with a decent skill, but if I won't mine myself,
or get money from trades with player, I could not afford to buy
ressources. Simply because the NPCs pay much less for a product
than the necessary ressources cost.
Of course it is intended to favor the player to player trade. But especially
the low skilled crafters don't produce the quality which attracts other players
to buy their products. So they suffer while they train their skill.
I can't see a real problem with a increase of the prices. I would like it to be honest.
All prices will grow thats correct. But is that a problem? Its no problem if the NPCs perform this increase as well. Since such a list is usable as base pricelist in the NPCs they will buy and sell for higher prices as well.
And for a newbie... what is more motivating to sell raw goods:
"Hey I want to sell 10 pieces of coal" - "Okay. I give you 2 copper coins for all of them"
or
"Hey I want to sell 10 pieces of coal" - "Okay. I give you 100 copper coins for all of them"
Higher prices leave more space open for tradings and discussions about the price of some goods. Discuss about the prices is around easier when the price is around 5 silver then it is when the price is around 100 copper.
And surely it will hurt the characters a little right after the change. But I think that will handle itself in a short time.
Nitram
All prices will grow thats correct. But is that a problem? Its no problem if the NPCs perform this increase as well. Since such a list is usable as base pricelist in the NPCs they will buy and sell for higher prices as well.
And for a newbie... what is more motivating to sell raw goods:
"Hey I want to sell 10 pieces of coal" - "Okay. I give you 2 copper coins for all of them"
or
"Hey I want to sell 10 pieces of coal" - "Okay. I give you 100 copper coins for all of them"
Higher prices leave more space open for tradings and discussions about the price of some goods. Discuss about the prices is around easier when the price is around 5 silver then it is when the price is around 100 copper.
And surely it will hurt the characters a little right after the change. But I think that will handle itself in a short time.
Nitram
-
Pellandria
- Posts: 2604
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:06 pm
- Location: Running around
- Contact:
What you write is completly false, Pellandria.
The money in Illarion is worth nothing. The reason for this is simple. You can't produce anything with it and you can't create it. The the definition of the worth is done only by the items you get from it. Its nothing but paper money now days.
The idea is, that it is possible to sell less then 100 apples to actually get one copper coin out of it. Also it makes some calculations on the technical side easier.
The taxes for the towns for example.
5% out of 5 copper coins is rounded 0 copper coins.
5% ouf of 50 copper coins is rounded 3 copper coins.
And 3 is more then nothing.
I don't see what is your problem with this. That your money you have currently is a little less worth? What a pity... that hits everyone.
Nitram
The money in Illarion is worth nothing. The reason for this is simple. You can't produce anything with it and you can't create it. The the definition of the worth is done only by the items you get from it. Its nothing but paper money now days.
The idea is, that it is possible to sell less then 100 apples to actually get one copper coin out of it. Also it makes some calculations on the technical side easier.
The taxes for the towns for example.
5% out of 5 copper coins is rounded 0 copper coins.
5% ouf of 50 copper coins is rounded 3 copper coins.
And 3 is more then nothing.
I don't see what is your problem with this. That your money you have currently is a little less worth? What a pity... that hits everyone.
Nitram
-
Juniper Onyx
- Master NPC Scripter
- Posts: 1832
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:13 am
- Location: Columbia, MO USA
Hey everyone!
I didn't mean to start aflame war over prices, let's just discuss.
My character sells raw resources all the time. With Chester, and Dusty before, I was quite involved with all manner of trading to players, both buying and selling. However, I often do sell on the low side. I saw someone listed a "Pincers with Crucible" for 600 coppers! I freaked out! It must have been a dwarf, because at most, a "BASIC" tool needed for smithing shouldn't be that much more than other tools in the Game. It does take some skill and 2 Iron Ingots to make, so 100cp seemed reasonable. No way it's worth 600!
The prices I posted were honestly what I have seen players pay for. When we all do these prices, try to keep them 'Reasonable" with respect to ALL OTHER ITEMS! If Tailored goods are low and Glass is high, we will just create another imbalance to the game. I think the purpose of this list is to provide much needed balance to the economy. Let's not go crazy on these prices please!
We also have to remember that some products 'need' others that themselves have a value too. Ex: Green Dye=Bucket+water+cabbages+(some skill=labor) Thats how I view value of items.
@Korm: The reason seeds should be 1-2 coppers less is so they are affordable. The beginning Farmer loses soooo many seeds before they actually can harvest 2-3 vegetables from each plant. It is at this point that the farmer should be making a small profit for his efforts. 4 Grain is the top of the 'Farming' scale. The prices on the list are supposed to be 'averages'.
As for wood, Apple, Cherry and Conifer are all valued by Carpenters to make items. Naldor makes nothing except as a 'building' material, also it is the 'easiest' to collect-so I think it should be 1 copper less than the other three.
I agree with the Grain->Flour->Dough reason.
Good discussions, thanks. I think this list has been needed for a long time and I'm glad everyone is talking about it.
I didn't mean to start aflame war over prices, let's just discuss.
My character sells raw resources all the time. With Chester, and Dusty before, I was quite involved with all manner of trading to players, both buying and selling. However, I often do sell on the low side. I saw someone listed a "Pincers with Crucible" for 600 coppers! I freaked out! It must have been a dwarf, because at most, a "BASIC" tool needed for smithing shouldn't be that much more than other tools in the Game. It does take some skill and 2 Iron Ingots to make, so 100cp seemed reasonable. No way it's worth 600!
The prices I posted were honestly what I have seen players pay for. When we all do these prices, try to keep them 'Reasonable" with respect to ALL OTHER ITEMS! If Tailored goods are low and Glass is high, we will just create another imbalance to the game. I think the purpose of this list is to provide much needed balance to the economy. Let's not go crazy on these prices please!
We also have to remember that some products 'need' others that themselves have a value too. Ex: Green Dye=Bucket+water+cabbages+(some skill=labor) Thats how I view value of items.
@Korm: The reason seeds should be 1-2 coppers less is so they are affordable. The beginning Farmer loses soooo many seeds before they actually can harvest 2-3 vegetables from each plant. It is at this point that the farmer should be making a small profit for his efforts. 4 Grain is the top of the 'Farming' scale. The prices on the list are supposed to be 'averages'.
As for wood, Apple, Cherry and Conifer are all valued by Carpenters to make items. Naldor makes nothing except as a 'building' material, also it is the 'easiest' to collect-so I think it should be 1 copper less than the other three.
I agree with the Grain->Flour->Dough reason.
Good discussions, thanks. I think this list has been needed for a long time and I'm glad everyone is talking about it.
-
Mr. Cromwell
- Posts: 1876
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: All over the place.
For the price list:Nitram wrote:I can't see a real problem with a increase of the prices. I would like it to be honest.
All prices will grow thats correct. But is that a problem? Its no problem if the NPCs perform this increase as well. Since such a list is usable as base pricelist in the NPCs they will buy and sell for higher prices as well.
And for a newbie... what is more motivating to sell raw goods:
"Hey I want to sell 10 pieces of coal" - "Okay. I give you 2 copper coins for all of them"
or
"Hey I want to sell 10 pieces of coal" - "Okay. I give you 100 copper coins for all of them"
Higher prices leave more space open for tradings and discussions about the price of some goods. Discuss about the prices is around easier when the price is around 5 silver then it is when the price is around 100 copper.
And surely it will hurt the characters a little right after the change. But I think that will handle itself in a short time.
Nitram
I think that freely editable version which is used as a reference is bad planning. When this influences technical implementation (meaning the NPC-prices) instead of being just a purely smacc-esque reference, the staff should ensure that the price-changes suggested by players are actually backed up with reason and logic. So it would be better IMHO if it was on the board instead of the wiki, where the players could then discuss the prices and the staff could decide which is actually the 'best' idea. This would be the best way to ensure a balanced pricing instead of "piss-off-pricing" (600cp for basic tools?..) which is inclined to either lower or increase the prices artificially for the benefit of the customers or (more likely) the craftsmen.
Put it on the boards somewhere, appoint a GM to oversee the discussion (Estralis? He seems to have an interest for the economy..)
and to implement the *good* price change suggestions in the proper list. @Nitram
I don't really see how it is motivating if the purchase power of the money comparably decreases. So with our coal-selling noob, instead of "oh, you only have 2 coppers.. a loaf of bread costs 4 coppers" you'll have "Oh, you only have 100 coppers, a loaf of bread costs 200 coppers"
Though, I somewhat understand the need to fractionalize.
One thing you should also consider, that if you cut the amount of money floating in the game by 90% (or rather, the purchase power if the chaneg means going from now 10cp-pp -> to 1cp-pp), then resulting purchase power disparity will absolutely kill demand for some time. When you essentially take money-value away from the people which they have been saving for whatever reason, you'll simply start the money-hoarding process again and will not make unessential purchases during this time. Considering how long it may take to gather money especially if no-one is interested in spending, we could risk a 'recession' with player-to-player trading for a long time. The lack of demand could even result in the actual prices (The comparable price after/before change. If the price for Z is now 5 coppers, after the change 50(500?) coppers.. after some time 40(400?)coppers) going down as the crafters struggle for the few player customers. This means that the craftsmen who actually trade with players make less money, which imho is quite counterproductive.
If it's just the fractionalizing of prices that you are after, why not do it by not actually hurting anyone (characters, time spent by players on acquiring wealth and most importantly the game economy) ? This could easily be done by simply multiplying the amount of money ingame by tenfold and then increasing the prices accordingly. I don't understand why anyone should be hurt in the process of change, if it just can be avoided.
I'll try to make the post more coherent once I'm not supposed to study. Hopefully it's understandable, though.
-
Juliana D'cheyne
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:14 am
- Contact:
I guess am a little confused over the whole discussion though am not familiar with the mechanics that well. In RL their is an entire system to "balance the economy" sometimes it works...sometimes not. It is a very complicated system with different countries having variations. If a balance is desired, it seems practically impossible to achieve in a game.
I am assuming the heart of the matter is the thought there is too much money hoarding so things are adjusted accordingly sometimes to the detriment of other chars that have less by price adjustments (an example being only those with moderate income will buy strawberry cakes at over a silver per cake)?
1. Is it that "bad" in the game if the money is hoarded? Does it harm the game?
2. If so, why not just cap the amount a char can hold in their depot, they will either have to spend it in game or be aware it could disappear. I am assuming the player base is such and the mechanics is such that this possibly could be done every few months and after awhile it wouldn't be as necessary due to all knowing about it?
3. Due to the difficultly of sometimes being able to find anyone in order for a player to "buy" a product, I can see how new players and even older players can get frustrated. Yet, those that do craft and make products can also get frustrated trying to sell their products. Why not have NPC's selling simple products (and limit how many they sell but allow them to buy in bulk some items).. then have player vendors/stores to sell other products? If not feasible allow the tradesman to have an order "book" somehow where a player knows the tradesman sells so and so wares and the player can "order" what they like using this.
In other words, I am not sure the economy is the problem so much as communication between crafter and one who wishes to buy.
I am assuming the heart of the matter is the thought there is too much money hoarding so things are adjusted accordingly sometimes to the detriment of other chars that have less by price adjustments (an example being only those with moderate income will buy strawberry cakes at over a silver per cake)?
1. Is it that "bad" in the game if the money is hoarded? Does it harm the game?
2. If so, why not just cap the amount a char can hold in their depot, they will either have to spend it in game or be aware it could disappear. I am assuming the player base is such and the mechanics is such that this possibly could be done every few months and after awhile it wouldn't be as necessary due to all knowing about it?
3. Due to the difficultly of sometimes being able to find anyone in order for a player to "buy" a product, I can see how new players and even older players can get frustrated. Yet, those that do craft and make products can also get frustrated trying to sell their products. Why not have NPC's selling simple products (and limit how many they sell but allow them to buy in bulk some items).. then have player vendors/stores to sell other products? If not feasible allow the tradesman to have an order "book" somehow where a player knows the tradesman sells so and so wares and the player can "order" what they like using this.
In other words, I am not sure the economy is the problem so much as communication between crafter and one who wishes to buy.
This sounds more feasible then anyone being able to change the list with resulting disagreement.Put it on the boards somewhere, appoint a GM to oversee the discussion
Money is one of the main things that seperates new from old characters.
And thats the way it should be. The target of all this should be that not all characters can afford the best armors and weapons and stuff. That can be only done by the fitting prices. At this point one of the problems is that the weapons are really unbalanced and the armors are more or less equal. Thats something that has to change.
Anyway for a good working economy its needed that some of the money flows. So its needed that some characters sell goods other characters buy. Thats close to not given currently. The most characters get ressources, refine them and craft final goods out of them. Thats not pretty good.
But it has a reason: The money they get out is at the maximum possible. That won't change ever. The only way to get they buying the materials for example is their laziness. But as long as those persons are not sure that they get enougth money out of the final goods to pay the ressources and get enougth money for themselfs their stinginess is bigger then their laziness.
The target of the list that is should be created is that the NPCs start paying reasonable prices. That prices make shall make sure that goods can be sold at good prices all times if needed to NPCs. Also I would include NPCs that sell raw goods in case no player is around to supply that goods. The price at the NPCs is of cause a little higher then the prices the players should take.
Why the increase of the prices? First off: all calculations in the game around the prices work better when you calculate with bigger numbers. Since all numbers are commonly rounded to the floor. Then as I said it just works better to discuss about the prices between buyer and seller when the base price is higher.
In my opinion a copper coin should be close to be worthless. Currently...what can you buy from a copper coin? A bread roll? What is made of flour and water. So both flour and water is worth 1/2 copper coins. flour is made of grain. What is the grain worth? And what is the work of the one who grows the grain and the one of makes flour out of the grain? 1/4 copper coins problems would solve easily if the prices would just be a little higher.
The prices should of cause not only reflect the material value of a item but also the skill that is needed to create it. A high end sword needs less materials then a low end armor. But it needs a much higher skill. Shouldn't is cost more then?
Juliana: Hording money in the game does not hurt much. But it also helps nothing. Something should be created to give the rich characters a possibility to use their money. The houses are a possibility but they are right now not really useful. But I guess thats a different topic, isn't it?
Nitram
And thats the way it should be. The target of all this should be that not all characters can afford the best armors and weapons and stuff. That can be only done by the fitting prices. At this point one of the problems is that the weapons are really unbalanced and the armors are more or less equal. Thats something that has to change.
Anyway for a good working economy its needed that some of the money flows. So its needed that some characters sell goods other characters buy. Thats close to not given currently. The most characters get ressources, refine them and craft final goods out of them. Thats not pretty good.
But it has a reason: The money they get out is at the maximum possible. That won't change ever. The only way to get they buying the materials for example is their laziness. But as long as those persons are not sure that they get enougth money out of the final goods to pay the ressources and get enougth money for themselfs their stinginess is bigger then their laziness.
The target of the list that is should be created is that the NPCs start paying reasonable prices. That prices make shall make sure that goods can be sold at good prices all times if needed to NPCs. Also I would include NPCs that sell raw goods in case no player is around to supply that goods. The price at the NPCs is of cause a little higher then the prices the players should take.
Why the increase of the prices? First off: all calculations in the game around the prices work better when you calculate with bigger numbers. Since all numbers are commonly rounded to the floor. Then as I said it just works better to discuss about the prices between buyer and seller when the base price is higher.
In my opinion a copper coin should be close to be worthless. Currently...what can you buy from a copper coin? A bread roll? What is made of flour and water. So both flour and water is worth 1/2 copper coins. flour is made of grain. What is the grain worth? And what is the work of the one who grows the grain and the one of makes flour out of the grain? 1/4 copper coins problems would solve easily if the prices would just be a little higher.
The prices should of cause not only reflect the material value of a item but also the skill that is needed to create it. A high end sword needs less materials then a low end armor. But it needs a much higher skill. Shouldn't is cost more then?
Juliana: Hording money in the game does not hurt much. But it also helps nothing. Something should be created to give the rich characters a possibility to use their money. The houses are a possibility but they are right now not really useful. But I guess thats a different topic, isn't it?
Nitram
-
Korm Kormsen
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:46 pm
- Location: Illarion nordpol, wenns den gibt...
well, first i strongly agree, that the pricelist should be free to discuss, but not free to change.
there should be discussion, after consensus prices should be put to a fix list.
second: a change in price levels should be the second step. i would advocate to make a list based on the real prices as they now are, and afterwards multiply its values, if desired.
(beware! that would have to include an adjustment of loots as well, not to change the adquiring power of fighters and mages)
third: we are talking economics here. remarks about powergaming are counterproductive. - a crafter crafts. so good roleplay for a crafter includes crafting. includes a lot of crafting. just because he would be no crafter, if crafting were not his main activity.
fourth: i can not agree, that prices for raw materials and simple products are too low. i think, northmark is among those, who have built more than average (slight understatement) most of the silver paid to the builder was earned by selling collected or lowlevel crafted materials and goods at the prices i did put in the list.
building should not become too easy or cheap.
fifth: seed-prices
i understand the reasoning. but i see the effort needed, to produce seeds.
a solution, that looks good to me, could be, make them half the prices that i suggested, but change the scripts, that one could harvest double the quantity.
(if this would include grain, then two grains should produce only one flour)
sixth: we should collect suggestions which items to take out of the list.
(example - raw bricks. they exist only for a few moments, or as rests in quantities less than five. so i don't see any market value for them)
but i would not love the idea, that everybody starts to uncoordinatedly strike items from the list now.
seventh: prices should be in general reflect the effort necessary for production.
so, if we look for a coordinator, he would need ingame knowledge (or scriptknowledge) for all crafts.
eighth: we should break up that list in various shorter lists, divided by professions. then the discussions would be more concentrated and fruitfull.
(to be levelled against each other as a last step)
there should be discussion, after consensus prices should be put to a fix list.
second: a change in price levels should be the second step. i would advocate to make a list based on the real prices as they now are, and afterwards multiply its values, if desired.
(beware! that would have to include an adjustment of loots as well, not to change the adquiring power of fighters and mages)
third: we are talking economics here. remarks about powergaming are counterproductive. - a crafter crafts. so good roleplay for a crafter includes crafting. includes a lot of crafting. just because he would be no crafter, if crafting were not his main activity.
fourth: i can not agree, that prices for raw materials and simple products are too low. i think, northmark is among those, who have built more than average (slight understatement) most of the silver paid to the builder was earned by selling collected or lowlevel crafted materials and goods at the prices i did put in the list.
building should not become too easy or cheap.
fifth: seed-prices
i understand the reasoning. but i see the effort needed, to produce seeds.
a solution, that looks good to me, could be, make them half the prices that i suggested, but change the scripts, that one could harvest double the quantity.
(if this would include grain, then two grains should produce only one flour)
sixth: we should collect suggestions which items to take out of the list.
(example - raw bricks. they exist only for a few moments, or as rests in quantities less than five. so i don't see any market value for them)
but i would not love the idea, that everybody starts to uncoordinatedly strike items from the list now.
seventh: prices should be in general reflect the effort necessary for production.
so, if we look for a coordinator, he would need ingame knowledge (or scriptknowledge) for all crafts.
eighth: we should break up that list in various shorter lists, divided by professions. then the discussions would be more concentrated and fruitfull.
(to be levelled against each other as a last step)
-
Mr. Cromwell
- Posts: 1876
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: All over the place.
@Nitram
Understandable when it comes to the increase of prices.
However, I absolutely reject (FYI!
) the notion of doing the increase in manner which adversely affects the amount of purchase power in the game.
I think you are familiar with the term 'Kaputtreparieren"?
If you increase the prices AND lower the existing purchase power in the game at the same time, you'll basically take from the 'other end' and add the same amount to the 'other end'. The situation remains effectively unchanged for that part, for the reasons I already gave you. So I'd advice converting the amount of money up with the same scale as the prices, simply because that way we'll at the very least retain the existing demand and willingness to buy things. Considering how the extra weapons were taken away, I'm guessing that this is technically doable.
Understandable when it comes to the increase of prices.
However, I absolutely reject (FYI!
) the notion of doing the increase in manner which adversely affects the amount of purchase power in the game.I think you are familiar with the term 'Kaputtreparieren"?
If you increase the prices AND lower the existing purchase power in the game at the same time, you'll basically take from the 'other end' and add the same amount to the 'other end'. The situation remains effectively unchanged for that part, for the reasons I already gave you. So I'd advice converting the amount of money up with the same scale as the prices, simply because that way we'll at the very least retain the existing demand and willingness to buy things. Considering how the extra weapons were taken away, I'm guessing that this is technically doable.
-
Korm Kormsen
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:46 pm
- Location: Illarion nordpol, wenns den gibt...
well, very interesting. but distracting from the work at hand. the list.
@cromwell, do you know the expression "kaputtdiskutieren"?
to get something done, i suggest:
1. we put in the list only prices, we actually paid or got. (for now. to have a base for discussion)
2. we put in price ranges ( for example 2 - 4 cp) so, if anybody paid or got more, than the noted price, he raises the right number. if he paid or got less, he lowers the left number.
3. with more general discussions to the topic we go to the other thread in proposals. (and leave this thread for prices only)
@cromwell, do you know the expression "kaputtdiskutieren"?
to get something done, i suggest:
1. we put in the list only prices, we actually paid or got. (for now. to have a base for discussion)
2. we put in price ranges ( for example 2 - 4 cp) so, if anybody paid or got more, than the noted price, he raises the right number. if he paid or got less, he lowers the left number.
3. with more general discussions to the topic we go to the other thread in proposals. (and leave this thread for prices only)
@ Crucible Pincer Price -
Crucible pincers are NOT avalible from NPCs, they are only avalible from blacksmith to blacksmith. For this reason, it is pretty much "A blacksmith decides who gets to be his competition". Now if you're goign to sell it at 1 silver piece, you wont end up selling anything else, because everyone will be a smith.
That's why its so expensive...
Crucible pincers are NOT avalible from NPCs, they are only avalible from blacksmith to blacksmith. For this reason, it is pretty much "A blacksmith decides who gets to be his competition". Now if you're goign to sell it at 1 silver piece, you wont end up selling anything else, because everyone will be a smith.
That's why its so expensive...
-
Korm Kormsen
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:46 pm
- Location: Illarion nordpol, wenns den gibt...
-
Juniper Onyx
- Master NPC Scripter
- Posts: 1832
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:13 am
- Location: Columbia, MO USA
It is in the starter package for 'smith' now, which is better. And a little known secret is that the dwarves have always been able to buy them from a dwarven NPC locked away in Silverbrand for years. Where do you think the first smith got his?Hadrian_Abela wrote:@ Crucible Pincer Price -
Crucible pincers are NOT avalible from NPCs, they are only avalible from blacksmith to blacksmith. For this reason, it is pretty much "A blacksmith decides who gets to be his competition". Now if you're goign to sell it at 1 silver piece, you wont end up selling anything else, because everyone will be a smith.
That's why its so expensive...
And as for prices, I don't see why it has to be 600 coppers. That's just too high for something that only takes two iron ingots to make, and is basically the "Absolute Needed tool" for smiths. 100 sounds fair to me.
Even at 100 coppers, it won't change the number of smiths IG, because everyone who cares, is already a smith to some degree.
