To much money?

[Lrmy]

I just don't think there are enough places one can put their in game coins into. Buildings are the largest thing. They are also not so appealing. You may loose it if the land it was built on is ever taken over or you are kicked out. There are also fires. This makes private buildings less common. I know there is a slight concern for money-stackers (myself included). There is just little to buy in game.

I suggest an NPC. They could sell maps and magical items. I know more magical items may not be wanted in game but they break over time. If they are a bit more common, they will likely be used more. I am thinking a price around 1-4 gold a weapon. The merchant would only carry one at a time and he/she would be located far from a town. Maybe south forest? Or near Sirani? As for maps, the merchant would sell the map for more than it's average coin drop. YR map, sell for 4 gold, Dragon 3 gold, Pirate 2 gold, Silver 1 gold, and so on. This is just one idea for getting money spent in game.

[Llama]

I don't like selling maps, otherwise I'd like it if magical items are sold for amazing prices rather then dropped and collected. (See: Dominic).

Another thing I'd like would be something expensive which boosts attributes for an hour or so, I'd beleive they'd be popular.

[abcfantasy]

Or donate money to the characters who have little.

[Estralis Seborian]

The majority of magical weapons comes from treasures, not monster drops. But that's a different story. Options to spend one's money are needed. An artifact trader is a nice idea, even though I would refrain from making him an item source. What I have in mind is a NPC who buys magical weapons (and pays money for them), but also sells the weapons he bought for higher prices. This way, no new magical items enter the game this way, Dom can sell his stuff and get even more gold and lots of money can leave the system.

Attribute boosting stuff for money, maybe you can elaborate on this? What I imagine as option are donations to temples. When you pay X coins, you get +Y on an attribute, maybe a random one, maybe one that fits the god, maybe a combination of both... Feel free to make up a concept, write the necessary NPCs with the simple NPC-language and submit your ideas to a dev .

[Pellandria]

Or donate money to the characters who have little.

*cough* the magic academy gladly takes your money*cough*

How about we just make a smith trader, who, like the questgoblin once, could smith items to make them "undestroyable" but this smithing wears off after time and/or using the item, thus creating a steady need of the npc, so everyone with a good armour doesn't have to rebuy it constantly and finally starts using his things, maybe even let players buy the "fluid" which would be more expensiv than the normal npc, but lets you use it whenever you want.

[Estralis Seborian]

Actually that was the plan, Pellandria. The event with this goblin was ment to show whether players would pay for such a service or not. And they did . There is quite a long list of ideas available, the teleporters were the first idea that got implemented.

But in the end, Illarion has a design flaw that will always lead to more money entering the system than leaving it - On the road to master skill, one has to produce thousands of goods or beat up thousands of monsters. Since such actions have to promise a reward (who suggests to lower this reward does something wrong), one has to compare this reward with the need to spend money. It is very low since one does not need to buy every type of item but one can go with the best stuff as soon as one can afford it. In most MMORPGs, you need a certain skill for certain items or the prices and stats of items range over orders of magnitude. While the first might be a valid option for Illarion, the latter is not due to the fact that Illarion is not a grinding game.

[Richter Brown]

What about selling Items in different quality?
For example, Eliza could sell: Steel gloves in the lower quality for the same price then now. But the gloves in a better quality for more coins.
Excellent quality can just be made from other players....
So many player would lose coins in buying good equipment from Eliza.
(If I buy it in Silberbrand, no coin leave the game)

But i think its strange to buy sth from Eliza and you cant know which quality you get for your coins...

[Elsi]

To remove money from the system... how about an occasional 'lottery' held by NPCs.

[Estralis Seborian]

I've alread implemented a gambling NPC. No dev has found the time to have a look at it so far...

Maybe I should rephrase: There is not a lack of ideas. There is a) a design problem of the game itself (suggestions, anyone?) b) a lack of manpower. We have the simple NPC-language, everybody can start writing NPCs that offer almost any service right now. Stuff like boosting attributes and so on can be added to the scripts, referring to a dev boosting attributes for a time is the most simple long time effect imagineable.

[Llama]

To remove money from the system... how about an occasional 'lottery' held by NPCs.

Or an auction

If you sell something great, the price will shoot up, and there, you've removed a few gold pieces from the economy.

[abcfantasy]

Won't the items be bought by the same people over and over again? So those people who have 10 longswords, 10 fireswords, etc... *cough* *cough* will also buy the special items sold in auctions.

[Llama]

The problem is however, that people have too much money, and this causes inflation.

So taking the money OUT of the game is the solution.

[Tinya]

I like all the ideas listed if can be implemented. As a side note,

Buildings are the largest thing. They are also not so appealing. You may loose it if the land it was built on is ever taken over or you are kicked out. There are also fires.

I agree and think the sysem as it is now discourages building, which could be what is wanted.

[abcfantasy]

Regarding buildings, I think they're good as they are. They're a long time project for a char/guild, so it keeps the motivation there.

[Fooser]

Donate your money to Troll's Bane.

[Thorgrimm]

Donate them to the Temple of Irmorom

[AlexRose]

Regarding buildings, I think they're good as they are. They're a long time project for a char/guild, so it keeps the motivation there.

It's not motivating. Getting materials is boring as hell.

How's about an npc which sells all building materials? I know I'd spend a hell of a lot there; the only reason we don't build Caelum quick is none of us do crafting and other people don't make enough stuff to buy in bulk.

[Pellandria]

Yes getting building materials is really boring work, but what, atleast for me, matters more is the high price of the building itself, I think if you lower the price of the building and keep ressources people would more likely buy their stuff from player or npc traders instead of doing everything alone and just try everything to get money from somewhere.

[nmaguire]

I don't like selling maps, otherwise I'd like it if magical items are sold for amazing prices rather then dropped and collected. (See: Dominic).

That's unfair. I TRIED to sell them, but for "amazing prices" as you put it, nobody WANTED to buy them. I put up a post in the trading board ages ago, selling like 20 different things (rings, armour, swords, etc.) and recieved ONE offer.

This way, no new magical items enter the game this way, Dom can sell his stuff and get even more gold and lots of money can leave the system.

I like it! If I ever get unbanned please implement this

[Mr. Cromwell]

I don't know if the building prices are in general too high. At least now, building a big house is something very few can afford on their own/be arsed to do. Additionally it certainly takes a large amount of cash out of the game whenever someone goes through the stress and hard work of gathering the materials, settling the building permitions IG and finally managing to get the house actually built there.

However, one thing is sure; the price for a depot is definitely too high.

A house where you can't store any of your things is a very silly private house, and 100 silvers (quite big amount of money on top of the other expenses which tend to be a lot already, even for a smaller house) for that basic function is way, way too much if you ask me.

1/4th or 1/5th of the price is well enough.

[Beldir]

Lrmy, what you could do with too much money?
Build a castle 8that can't burn down) and hire servants and soldiers or hire an army of merchants and conquer something and then hire servants?
Buy expensive clothes and armor?
I can think of maany ways to loose money.

[AlexRose]

Lrmy, what you could do with too much money?
Build a castle 8that can't burn down) and hire servants and soldiers or hire an army of merchants and conquer something and then hire servants?
Buy expensive clothes and armor?
I can think of maany ways to loose money.

He has expensive clothes and armour, castles cost way too much money and we don't have a big enough player base for servants and soldiers..

I have everything I want ig and still a lot of money left over; the only thing I can think of that I also want is Caelum built, but it's frustrating to do that when I don't have time to collect raw materials, noone else does, and we're being asked for amounts that we'd never be able to buy from other people due to them not making enough stock (like 60k stone blocks).

[Llama]

I don't like selling maps, otherwise I'd like it if magical items are sold for amazing prices rather then dropped and collected. (See: Dominic).

That's unfair. I TRIED to sell them, but for "amazing prices" as you put it, nobody WANTED to buy them. I put up a post in the trading board ages ago, selling like 20 different things (rings, armour, swords, etc.) and recieved ONE offer.

"rather then dropped and collected" --> Not avalible any other way except from NPCs.

Suggestion: House costs A silvers, B wood ect..
or
House costs Z silvers, where the items are given a (high) price, and added to the silver. That way more money gets OUT of the economy, faster.

[Lrmy]

Would it be possible to build a house with all coins? Pay like 2x as much for everything if the builder supplies the materials?

[Fooser]

If you have too much money, remove it from your depot, go out to the farthest corner of the map, and leave it on the ground to decompose. Problem solved.

[HolyKnight]

The problem with changing the building plans (e.g. lowering the cost of certain items, eliminating materials and increasing the coin count, or lowering the amount of materials needed) would swamp the builder. Lennier is already backed up as is... In order to make houses more affordable you have to have another builder.....OR my suggestion would be this: allow Lennier to create say 10 generic houses or so and save the template. Then these generic houses (perhaps with slight adjustments due to graphic issues) would be readily available to the cities of Gobaith and people that were citizens would only have to pay X amount of gold and property tax to the city.

Furthermore, I love the idea of a merchant that sells building materials... the dev's or whoever, can put obvious restraints on the flow of this material. To add these two ideas together could allow Lennier to become something like a building & loan. You pay X amount of gold for the initial building of the house...then over the months you pay the NPC for the materials it took to build your house. Then if you do not pay your taxes the city you live in can confiscate your house...or if it is a guild house the builder can auction it off.


@ the goblin idea I hope that can be implemented soon but on top of that about the time Eli started being taught by Sam, Athian told Eli about an enchantment that could be put on any weapon that would instantly turn a pair of scissors into a deadly weapon. I don't know if that was actually something ig at one time or if Athian was just jerking Eli's chain but I think that is an amazing idea. To keep these weapons from being abused they could have really high costs and their condition drops very quickly. This way they are like artifacts. Possibly mages could be the ones that enchant these blades allowing them to make coins other then pwn'n things.

Also, until the priest and bard magic are put ig, perhaps there could be an NPC ig that could increase your luck: swirlies, coins dropped, crafting effectiveness, etc... Something like selling your soul to the devil or gambling with Nargun. Sometimes it has really great benefits and sometimes a mummy spawns and follows you around saying BRAAAAAINS!

[Lrmy]

If you have too much money, remove it from your depot, go out to the farthest corner of the map, and leave it on the ground to decompose. Problem solved.

It isn't just that some of my characters have coins, many do and have no use for them.

Eli, no one said anything about lowering building costs. I suggested making it so you could pay the builder the extra coins to supply the materials needed to build.

[Juniper Onyx]

I have everything I want ig and still a lot of money left over; the only thing I can think of that I also want is Caelum built, but it's frustrating to do that when I don't have time to collect raw materials, noone else does, and we're being asked for amounts that we'd never be able to buy from other people due to them not making enough stock (like 60k stone blocks).

The fact that a community of 'Fighters' and 'Mages' can't build on their own is a testament to how well the system does work.

Any building Historically required many laborers, taxes, and materials. The Great Cathedrals and Castles of Europe took more than 10+ years to complete. Notre Dame took 50 years! Caelum began about 4-5 IG years ago? What are you complaining about?

Besides, when you don't encourage any crafters or 'resource' gatherers, what can you expect? A Baron can own as much land as he wants, but without peasants, that land produces nothing. Without a 'Crafting' middle class, there is no basis for taxes or 'skilled' labor.

What Caelum, and every Settlement, needs are 'peasants'!

I don't think the Building rules need to be changed, but how 'Guilds' and more especially 'players' interact as a 'team' or community.

It's been said before that there are too many 'Chiefs' and not enough 'Indians'. This is true, and when the 'Chiefs' have to do all the work themselves, they are sooo busy, they really can't get anything done fast enough to keep the people happy and interested. The guild soon becomes inactive.

I would like to see every player have a 'Main' character, that can be a 'chief' if they wish (spend 2/3 time IG), but also have a 'secondary' character that 'serves' another player, guild or whatever (For 1/3 time IG), with no ambitiopn beyond that. I tried this with my Halfling "Darby" and I enjoyed it, until her Master suddenly couldn't speak Halfling! ((Dev's, can't live with them, can't live without them......LOL))

One character to lead, one to follow. If every player did this, I think we could get more done, and increase cooperation with other players. I think it would also add some great dynamics as we all play 'peasants and servants' in addition to having fun with our ambitious main characters.

Could everyone think about doing this?

One "Main" character played about 2/3 of your available time with the purpose to have fun!

One "Secondary" character played about 1/3 of your available time with the purpose to serve another player's "Main" Character and to help their 'fun'.

Who would like to promise to do this?

P.S.:For real fun, you could write the names of all the settlements on the Island on strips of paper and draw them from a hat! Then have your 'peasant' serve there! Who knows? It might be fun to RP with players you usually wouldn't!

[Faladron]

the only reason we don't build Caelum quick is none of us do crafting and other people don't make enough stuff to buy in bulk.

I for one do not consider that to be a bad thing...

[HolyKnight]

Sign me up for peasantry.