2 questions (maybe 3), Rot Rate & Skills

Dien · Post by **Dien** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:38 pm

Okay, can somebody please explain rot rate or rot cycle or whatever it is to me? I just lost a bag full of equipment because I set it down for literally TWENTY SECONDS in order to change off to another bag and fish an item out. I realize in hindsight that it would have been safer to walk to a depot and do this, but, honestly.... TWENTY SECONDS. Is there any way, short of setting down test items and waiting for the full five minutes, to know when the cycle is going to go? I lost some pretty nice (at least to me) things, and while I'm not going to whine that I think I should get them back, that's incredibly frustrating.

On that note, are there any tips people can give me for managing multiple bags? Is there any way to open up a bag that's in your inventory without having to have it on your shoulder, etc? Because if not then it's going to be a reallll hassle walking to a depot and putting one bag in it while I trade off to the other bag just to ensure I don't lose my weapons, fishing pole, tools, etc., etc. *disgruntled cough*

My other question, on skills, is best illustrated with an example, so: My character is a tailor, not a good one yet but we'll say lower-mediocre, with a dark-green skill rate. She can make (and has made) successful leather bags, but recently every time (the last ten attempts, say) I've tried to make leather bags I get the "Your work fails" message and a waste of materials with nothing to show for it. Is there ANY rationale for this quirk of the skill system? I understand skills being slow to grow, really, I do, but why the heck would she get WORSE and not be able to make something she has previously been able to make? It's not a case of a death lowering her skills, either-- she sat down, made one bag, tried again ten minutes later with nothing to lower her skills in the meantime, and is only getting the fail messages now.

Confused and disgruntled,
Dien

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:43 pm

Hm...for the second question, did you log out between the time? It's possible that if you did, the second time you logged in, your char had a bad day when it came to dexterity or a similar attribute, causing your rate of success to go down.

As for the rot cycle, yes, it is painful, I've grown paranoid of setting things down in the ground for longer than 10 seconds. A shame items can't have individual rot cycles, rather than everything on the ground at once.

Dien · Post by **Dien** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:46 pm

No, no log-out in between. Literally nothing I can think of that would have interfered with her skills. *sighs and shakes head*

And thank you for the empathy at least on the item loss. I agree, an individual item rot rate would be SUCH an improvement.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:55 am

You can open any bag in your depot by just using it. Bags in your belt and bag can't be opened unless equipping them.

Dien · Post by **Dien** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:08 am

Thank you, Adano, that is helpful.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:11 pm

One more thing: The good day/bad day thing has nothing to do with logging out, just with ingame days, from my experience. So, was it night when you made the bags?

Post by **Nitram** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:25 pm

The rot cycle works pretty simple.

Every item has a rotting value. 5 for example. Now the server runs every 4 minutes over the whole map and decreases that value by one for every item that is on the map. When the value goes to 0 the item is removed. The problem now is, that the rotting value does not increase anymore. So the item survives only 5 rotting cycles. Unimportaint of you take the item up to your character or into a depot in the time between.
And now if you have a item with a rotting value of only 1, what can happen easily if the item lies on the floor some times, only 1 rotting cycle is needed to remove the item. The cycle runs all 4 minutes and if you drop your item 20 seconds before the next run of the rotting cycle, your item is removed after 20 seconds. Its even possible that your item is removed after 1 second, if you drop it at a unlucky time ( that happend already )

Nitram

Kranek · Post by **Kranek** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:07 pm

is there no way to reset the rotting value? maybe every night or so?

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:25 pm

1. Even if you can make an item, there is the possibility that you failed in making it. With higher skills, you will have far less fails.

2. With the actual rotting system it can happen that you put your items only for seconds on the ground, but always when the rotting cycle runs...

3. In the past you could open two bags at the same time (e.g. two in your depot). This is not possibly anymore which makes sorting your depot a pain in the arse...

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:29 pm

Concerning the rot-problem: http://illarion.org/flyspray/?do=details&task_id=478

The most effective and trivial solution would be to restore the wear-value to the default value upon picking up an item.

Konrad Knox · Post by **Konrad Knox** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:36 pm

Nitram, what happens when the items stack?
Say you have an apple with rot value 5, and you stack it with an apple of rot value 1. You get item stack of 2 apples. What's its rot value?

Post by **Nitram** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:41 pm

the item that is not moved counts as far as I remember. But I'm not sure and I don't have the time currently to try it.

Konrad Knox · Post by **Konrad Knox** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:12 am

then the solution is easy. keep brand new control objects in your depot and bag. everything you pick up off the ground, stack with that control object.
Well, with non-stacked items kinda screwy.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:00 am

Bags are the most problematic thing. They don't stack, and they usually hold many other things. And they are often used to ease trading, so it can easily happen that a bags rot value goes to 0.

Konrad Knox · Post by **Konrad Knox** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:29 pm

the programmatic solution would be this - whener an item is moved, set the rot count back to its max value. you'd have to give rot variable a max counter. Store that, and restore it when the location changes.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:13 pm

Konrad Knox wrote:Store that, and restore it when the location changes.

Or always keep the same rot value for everything that can move, that way you wont have a lot to store instead

maryday · Post by **maryday** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:21 am

Dev Question first: Goes the cycle from E to W or from W to E?
((Might it be sometimes noticed on a meadow of harvested fruittrees?))

Konrad Knox wrote:the programmatic solution would be this - whener an item is moved, set the rot count back to its max value. you'd have to give rot variable a max counter. Store that, and restore it when the location changes.

Not a very good idea, because it encourages "farthrow" of stackable, heavy objects for weaker chars.

*rolling a 18ft diameter grey clothbolt up the TB mainroad at 3ft bodysize.*
((Destination: Eliza`s))

Estralis Seborian wrote:Concerning the rot-problem: http://illarion.org/flyspray/?do=details&task_id=478

The most effective and trivial solution would be to restore the wear-value to the default value upon picking up an item.

Yes.

Maybe also interconnect the fixed? rot value also to the condition((is already stored, in many cases, so not really much additional traffic)).

So you will know which item exactly not to place on the ground, for too long.

The condition should not decrease by rotting . . .or maybe it would?

Really, really, as long we can`t have a reset of the rot value by picking up, how can we RP a fine looking market scenery?

:moan: :whine:

woman: Oh, what a beatuiful, magnificent, corroded icebird amulet!
merchant: Oh, yes, have a try...
woman *puts the amulet on.*
merchant: Oh yes, its so emphasising your peachlike skin...
woman: How much is it?
merchant: Five milliongazillion goldcoins.
woman *takes it slowly off* I`d take it if it was only four.
merchant: Sorry, its from my grandmother.
woman*lays the amulet on the table*
magnificent icebird amulet *POOF, crumbles to dust*

merchant: I`m so glad you`ve changed your mind, believe me, it`s worth it.
woman *still looks surprised, of how quick the merchant obviously removed the amulet from display*
merchant *extends his hand to receive the coins* . . .

Konrad Knox · Post by **Konrad Knox** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:23 am

farthrow? So?
Who cares? If there are people around, these guys are risking their goods being stolen. If there is nobody around, it doesnt disturb anyone's RP.
If someone is willing to overweight themselves so much that they have to drop the item, then put it back, then drop it again, then put it back - by all means, go nuts.

its never good to punish normal players with insant-rot because of some goofs throwing heavy items. Inconvenience to majority for something a minority does.

Alternative to prevent farthrow: limit the area the character can throw something based on strength. 1-4 = char can throw stuff 3 tiles away. 5-10 = 5 tiles away. 10-15 = 7 tiles away, 15-18 = 10 tiles away.

This allows both anti-rot stacking and no farthrow

maryday · Post by **maryday** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:37 pm

((Was just giving an example from my POV;

))

Interesting idea.

Might be a step towards an eventually more difficile throwing system?

Maybe move to "Proposals?"