[REJECTED]Special Buildings

[Llama]

This is one of my relatively simple proposals, and with it, it'll have these positive effects:

I) Create more 'activity zones'
II) Encourage people to build expensive buildings
|-> Drain more money out of the economy
III) Encourage people to join guilds

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Currently, there's no real reason why a town or guild should fork out money and resources to build a hospital, a tavern, or a barracks for example. All these buildings are just used as roleplay basis, and .: have no real practical use. The TB hospital for example, it used a bit when people RP hurting a lot on the ground ect.... which is a nice RP in itself, but other then that, its not worth the resources used to build it.

So this suggestion is, to allow an added bonus, when within a certain building which is designed for the task. I shall 'denote' 5 levels; these are left to the discretion of the map devs to decide what exactly constitutes a level; although it should be depndant on 1) Size 2) Items in the building 3) Decorative items in the building

For the purpose of this suggestion, a bedroom/own house ALWAYS counts as a Level 1. This is to encourage people to buy houses and stay in them, or large guilds to build bedrooms for their members.

For the purpose of this suggestion, a 'building' can even be a closed room. If i have a large castle, with a library in it, the library counts as a 'library building' for the purpose of this suggestion.
=
All this suggestion is based on an assumption "Bigger and more expensive buildings are more efficient". A small clinic might not be able to cure a certain illness, but a large hospital might. A large library would have rarer and older books then a small one. And a large barracks would be full of pressure-point charts, training dummies ect...
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Dedicated Fighting Area

This can be anything from a fighting pit (training arena), to a 'proper' barracks with 'archery range'. People fighting in this area, will be able to learn faster.

L1: 110% a small area which can be used to fight in
L2: 120%
L3: 130% A dedicated barracks which is used to train troops
L4: 140%
L5: 150% A large barracks, with ample combat space, and an 'arhcery range'.

Library

Held within the books of the library, many magical secrets can be found. A mage reasearching at the library will find he is more in tune with his magical self... and able to regenerate mana faster

L1: 110% A bookshelf in a bedroom
L2: 120%
L3: 130% A small library, with ample bookshelves and tables for reading [Trollsbane Library]
L4: 140%
L5: 150% A huge library, with lots of tables, and a large area for studying [Academy Library]

Hospital

A hospital is well stocked with bandages and healing salves, the wounded will quickly find ways to heal themselves here.

L1: 120% A bed in a bedroom
L2: 140%
L3: 160% A good sized hospital, with enough beds, and chairs for patients, and chests with healing items [Trollsbane Hospital]
L4: 180%
L5: 200% A huge hospital, which can cure about anything

Place of Rest

A place like this relaxes the senses, allowing a person to unwind after a long day, and recover faster for the next working day. (Helps remove the skillcap thingy faster]

L1: 105% A chair in a bedroom
L2: 110%
L3: 115% A tavern, or something of the sort where people can relax [Borgate's tavern, or the one in Greenbriar]
L4: 120%
L5: 125% A huge inn, with a tavern underneath, and the rest dedicated rooms to anyone who wants to live there.
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How to make this work

Manually.

The map devs design the buildings, and tell the person that with this current setup, they can have a "Ln building", but by buying x chairs, and a few more beds bla bla bla...

The map devs decide that the particular building qualifies as one of the above, and then a script is written which gives bonuses to the characters who are between co-ordinates xyz to xyz2 ect...
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Discuss.

[Faladron]

Change peoples minds so they step down from the
"Uh I spend most my time here, use the facilities, chat with the people, use the resources provided, demand the protection offered but nope, I don't live (= am a citizen) here." thing.

Change peoples minds so they step down from the
"Why buy basic materials from others if I can: Harvest sand in Varshikar,
cut wood in Trollsbane, pick fruits around grey Haven then burn ash and blow bottles in varshikar again until I can finally brew cider in Greenbriar"
attitude.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

Well, I don't think that Illarion really needs new buildings and settlements. Sometimes I even think that we have already way too many buildings/settlements at the moment compared to the number of players. New buildings and settlements are useless if we lack the players to populate and bring life to them.

[Kevin Lightdot]

It sounds pretty cool, though Magda may have a point.

Also..What are you trying to say Faladron? I actually have no idea how that is relevant to this thread.

[Juniper Onyx]

Well, I don't think that Illarion really needs new buildings and settlements. Sometimes I even think that we have already way too many buildings/settlements at the moment compared to the number of players. New buildings and settlements are useless if we lack the players to populate and bring life to them.

The problem isn't that we have too many buildings for the population, but that those few buildings are controlled by a few.

We have, what, 60 players or so? With 2-3 characters each = 180 characters?

How many 'private' buildings we have IG? 7? (one in Greenbriar, two in Varshikar, two in Trollsbane, one in Vanima, as far as I know) Many players consider private home ownership to be an ultimate goal.

Guild buildings are nice, but players don't really consider them 'theirs'. Someone manages or leads that Guild or settlement and is the only one able to duplicate or control keys, so really the Guild Building 'belongs' to whoever is leading the Guild/settlement at the moment. Also 'renting' Rooms (Like the Fluffy Sheep or Varshikar Apartments) is really a waste of hard to earn coin if there is no benefit to it, and it just makes the owner richer.

I think we need more 'private' buildings for the many characters that want one. The building rules are so expensive that I think things are fine as they are. New settlements will come and go as groups form that want to RP together, and some dissolve.

Benefits to buildings would be nice, but the benefit of knowing your character 'owns' something is already a strong motivator for several. I'm sure the GM's have better things to do, but I like the proposal listed. It will encourage a direct benefit from building bigger and more expensive buildings for more RP.

[Lrmy]

Faladron has a point Kevin. He means he thinks people will just go to..let's say Troll's Bane's Barracks and train then fight against Troll's Bane, join another guild or just never be a part of Troll's Bane.

I don't think that this is a negative, I think there could be laws made for this in game as well as penalties.

As for Magdha's post I half-agree with it. New towns are not needed, but new buildings are. They might attract people to join/be in towns more often.

We have, what, 60 players or so? With 2-3 characters each = 180 characters?

Many more.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

Well, since you can play only one character at a time we don't have 180 characters to populate Illarion, so this multiplier is misleading. And let's have a look how many long time characters we have. And the private owned buildings have changed their onwers so many times in just one year that I really doubt that every character needs his own house. Juniper Onyx shouldn't confuse his ultimate goals with that of others. A lot of guilds/towns offer common accommodations and even these are rarely used because most players log out when they have to leave and often do not lead their characters to shelter.

[Llama]

You see the problem is this, sure I can waste a ton and a half of gold coins to build myself a house, but why should I do that? Why should trollsbane build a hospital?

The building system was designed to be this expensive so really rich chars would remove money from the economy to buy the buildings. The buildignj system is a very good money drain, yet few use it... simply because, if i have enough money and resources, there are many better things I could buy with them.

This way, you pay money, and you rest and skill faster. If my guild is building a large barracks, and I'm a fighter, I WILL give money, because I will be given a key, and be able to skill faster, so I'm happy.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

I totally love this idea.

[Sundo Raca]

Personally (if i had the money) i would love to build a house or whatever, purely for the roleplay benefits of it. Actual in-game benefits wouldnt bother me so much, although i guess they'd be a nice bonus. I can only speak for myself though.

[Vern Kron]

As of right now, I know of many constructions going on. Two houses, one citadell, one game house, one embessy, something I can not mention, expansions to various places, and probably the rebuilding of other places. I likethe idea that places have uses, and if a room has a fire place, than it should help cure sickness. I really like this idea, and hope to see it in game.

[Juniper Onyx]

Juniper Onyx shouldn't confuse his ultimate goals with that of others.

Oh my!

You have taken what I said and confused it with what you 'think' my ultimate goals are.

How many times has my character(s) owned a building and then re-sold it for no profit or even given it away for the benefit of others? I can name at least 4 times (Greenbriar House #1 -> Now Hospital, Greenbriar House #2 -> Now Timo's Shop, Greenbriar Tavern -> went to Rumil, and then to Steckenthis, and now TrollsBane Arena -> Goldburg's Embassy). Do I own anything right now? No.

Will I ever own anything IG. No.

I assure you, if it was my goal to build something for my 'personal' use, I would have done it long ago. Many players know that both Dusty, and now Chester have had fortunes in materials. It would be easy to build in town for myself. I could build myself a private house in a town right now with what I have. However, I get pleasure from building things for others to use, plain and simple. I am a builder, not a collector.

My characters work for the benefit of others. I have said this time and time again. Just because some may not, don't assume others act the same way. There are many reasons players do what they do. Some RP, some fight, some just be jerks, some like to accumulate wealth and power, and some simply enjoy building.

I enjoy 'dreaming', building, and achieving the seemingly impossible. In fact, I was given the Spirit Guide of the "Beaver" during a Sweat Lodge ritual many years ago. My manner and goals are to create, not destroy. Whether it's helping new players stay and become productive, donating materials to those in need, or helping to build a settlement for New Language Dwarves. EVERYTHING I do is to 'Create' something.

I thought I already explained all this to you in a very nice and respectful email I sent you.

I am disappointed that you can not see that. I don't know why you choose to discredit my efforts at every opportunity, but honestly, I am getting tired of defending myself. So I say with kind regards.....

STFU!

You just can't please everyone.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

Well, as I have said before, do as it pleases you. I say what I think that I have to say. Everyone is free to consider my words or to ignore them. I think that I have been long enough in this game to have some experience with the ways it works. I have seen so many players cry for certain things in this game just to be gone within a month but well...I guess everyone them needed a building on his own.

You just can't please everyone.

Please be assured, that you don't have to please me, so your comment missed it mark.

[maryday]

Mr.Lama`s Idea is nice;
Though i think, especially the barracks should be put at the end of the line.


@Juniper; Some good points,
yet i have to admit, the extension of city structure may sometimes lead to uncorrectable urbanistic developments ;





Barracks;
Would give mainly a CON+, eventuall INT+ or
a slight +(like 20% for weak chars, lowering until 5% for strong chars, because the possibility for a teacher beeing critically hit is higher then the possibility for the pupil by its teacher) on parry/ dodge
(The maximum ammount would depend on size of barracks;))





Now to the point;


Beds in general;
At first place should be the functionable beds,
giving a faster regeneration, and a slowdown on poison damage,
after beeing shift-clicked, while laying inside (on the second, floorlevel-tile);

Poison does not spread as fast through your blood, if you move less.

I don`t like the idea of a skillcap reduction, because if you had a higher INT. . . .




Hospitals;
Get an additional object graphic (Come on, it will not be THAT difficult, to clone and recolor a bed, will it? );

OR: Add a room-specific CON+ adding to each beds regenaration in the space;




Effort: Make every bed a static tool,
which auto-emotes (something like. . ."#me lays on the bed.", that won`t harm the RP too much, and leaves enough space for related PC-emotes) on beeing used,
and gives CON+, until "resting-action" cancelled;


@a specific relistical Mod;
((That makes about two to three hours of scripting work, with a probably very low bug-capacity, and in the worst case one hour of graphics work.

With the effect of creating something very fine;))




PS; Just remember all the borderless possibilities, for weaker chars, to learn hand-to-hand combat, dodging, parry and even tactics,
without rolling all day in the muds, or getting devoured by some dead men;

((With the "negative" side effect, the use of a static tool would be interrupted on attack;-> preventing bedfightPG ))

[Djironnyma]

((With the "negative" side effect, the use of a static tool would be interrupted on attack;-> preventing bedfightPG ))

Thats called Kissenschlacht XD


to be serious, i see no real sense in that, if i have good rp, it is clear that i rest in a bed and read in a library, therefore i need no Pg-help

[Llama]

to be serious, i see no real sense in that, if i have good rp, it is clear that i rest in a bed and read in a library, therefore i need no Pg-help

Do you have any idea how much the trollsbane hospital costs in terms of resources?

Some day I'll calculate it for you...

Point is, it costs a LOT, and given that; I think whoever would have forked out the cash for it, would want something back in return.

[Djironnyma]

my char just have paid real much money for a building witch bring "nothing", but a place to rp... you know rp? it make really fun, just try it

[Cassandra Fjurin]

please don't think scripts are the "non plus ultra" on some time expensive work.

The script language is very powerfull but 10 to x times slower than the build in server routines. If you want a script which works over 30 Players every second and do something with them, will slow down the game very fast.

Not all what sounds easy, is easy at it sounds. Not the coding is sometimes really the problem more the time which the script needs.

[Llama]

@ Cassandra:

Could you instead make it work by the server changing the variable (for that character) which deals with the speed of bla bla when you're in the building, then every rot cycle, removes the effect automatically; and anyone within the building will have it changed again since they're in the building.

That way the script will only have to run once / rot cycle, or something like that, which should take the load off it a bit.

ADDED:

Or you gain that effect when you step on the building tile (change of variable), and lose it when you step on a particular circle of tiles around the building (so even peopel using teleport will lose it), or using a portal (so people who portal out will lose it). That way the script isn't run so often.

[Cassandra Fjurin]

the ADDED: Idea sounds good, maybe it can be forced with a long time effect like the illnesses.

But as a long time goal we need some special regions. They are good for many different features.

Holy No fighting area
No monsters area.
Faster healing.
Faster plant growth.
Maybe faster skillgain (Masters area???)
.
.
.
But for this we need a good algorithm to find out fastly if a character is in a special area or not.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

Point is, it costs a LOT, and given that; I think whoever would have forked out the cash for it, would want something back in return.

Please don't let Illarion become an economic simulation. There are other games where you can have that. I'm with Djironnyma. RP is the most important part of Illarion with everything else being a nice addition. Let me ask one question: How many of you have seen a doctor/druid/nurse in the hospital every day?

[Llama]

RP is the most important part of Illarion with everything else being a nice addition. Let me ask one question: How many of you have seen a doctor/druid/nurse in the hospital every day?

Its used to be true. Rp USED to be the most important part of Illarion, however in order to apply to the masses, economy and skilling replaced it. You get resources not through roleplay, but through skilling (or someone else gets them for you through skilling). The building rules are expensive in order to reduce money from people who are SKILLING.

A person who spends all his time skilling and has enough money to construct a building, would NOT want to waste the money just for a small area for roleplay. The people who have the most (personal) money are the ones with the most skill, not the best roleplayers. So in order to apply to them, you need to give them something that attracts them.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

A person who spends all his time skilling and has enough money to construct a building, would NOT want to waste the money just for a small area for roleplay. The people who have the most (personal) money are the ones with the most skill, not the best roleplayers. So in order to apply to them, you need to give them something that attracts them.

Do we really want to change the game in this direction by further assisting powergaming? You can be sure to face a huge competition with other games in this "market". It is the roleplaying that distinquishes Illarion from most other games.

[Nitram]

The proposal is rejected.

Maybe there will be anything that offers some advantages if you have a building. Until then, buildings are for roleplay and for roleplay status simbols. If you do not want to build a building, its your problem.

As Hadrian said, roleplay used to be the most importaint part of Illarion. And roleplay still should be the most importaint part. This proposals leads further away from this point.

Nitram