Increase the usefullness of Jus Qwan

[Pellandria]

It seems that people tend to ignore Jus Qwan, for those under us, who don't know what it ist, its the spell that summons wind and pushes back a char. I allready encountered several people who were thrown back agaiinst stones, walls and so on, while simply walking over to the mage and rp like nothing happend, this always kinda bothered me as this is a spell to actuall avoid people to get killed on both sides.

Basiclly I think we should add a small damage to the Spell itself, may even add the damage according to the surroundings or/and the underground the char lands on, I'm not talking about half of the Health bar but something that the char and the player react on.
As it is now, people will still simply ignore the fact that they just flied 4 meters trougth the air and hit a brickstone road in full armor.

[Mr. Cromwell]

I have noticed that mages tend to ignore my character slashing at them with two one meter long poisoned swords, and keep on casting like nothing would happen.

Therefore, I would suggest that mages die on the first hit of a sword, axe, hammer or dagger against them. This would make all aforementioned items much more useful.

Thanks!!

[Nitram]

I like both ideas, but Crommies idea is done easily so I guess, I do this first.

Later Pells idea.

[Adano Eles]

Why not change the fightning system so that a heavy hit can stagger the opponent, breaking spells.
And make people thrown back by a spell stagger for a moment as well, so they can't just ignore it.

[Faladron]

*picks a flowers petals*

Should I... shouldn't I... should I... shouldn't I... for the heck of it, I should.

I will just agree with Cromwell's point not to get shot down for "not knowing what I talk about" for the 105th time. There's much Rp done, even more ignored and that's one thing that doesn't only happen to mages so to put myself down on your level of argumentation and wording, Pellandria: "suck it up n00b".

Coding a solution for every situation like that (i.e. I grab someones colar and he refuses to even notice), would further limit ones free will to roleplay and people would complain about even more "forced emotes" pushed upon the character from (good or bad you decide) systems (seriously who rp's to have a cut in his hand EVERYTIME sawing wood fails?). Something like that isn't realy necessary as there's already a game where stuff like that is used for every action (D&D) and roleplay optional.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

Yeah, give the mages more power! They need it because they are soooooo useless at the moment.

[Nitram]

At the end, we can take out of this proposal, that many ignore the effect of the wind spell, because they just do no know what exactly goes on at this point.

So if we just add a small message like "You get hit by a wind gust, fly some meters thougth the air and fall to the ground heavily."

Or something like this.

That should solve it for now.

Nitram

[Mr. Cromwell]

Or then it simply has to be considered magic (as opposed to realism, like flying against walls) and that the wind simply blows you a few meters back, and you magically land on your feet all the time. This, until mages start getting their teeth punched in by some real melee knockout effects..

[Kaila Galathil Travinus]

The wind spell could possibly be RP'd a different way however... I guess it depends on what is intended by it.

1. A powerful wind is made using mana and "pushes" your feet out from under you throwing you to the ground so many meters away.


2. A powerful wind is made and rides over toward you picking you up bodily "dropping" you in another place. Then there may be two ideas of the drop. The wind spell could possibly drop you gently at a different place in the same condition as you began with just a little tangling of the hair. Or, it could drop you from a height, in which case you would fall and could possibly have damage.

I guess some of this interpretation could be from the intent of the mage. My first encounter with it was assuming the picking up and a gentle drop. shrugs

I think a lot of this type of game mechanics can....like a lot of other games with less RP and set mechanics.....discourage imagination and RP.

Juliana used to go the river and bathe in the cold water after a lot of fights in the skeleton forest.....now carries a bucket... could still go to the river, but what is the point... can get "clean" using the bucket. (in a way, the imagination was replaced with game mechanics... getting clean is no longer unique..no longer spontaneous)
You get ghosted in a fight, forget staying in the hospital for days...just wait for the message you are revitalized....This DOES help those new and other PO's to encourage adaquete RP, but can also be limiting in a sense.
I agree, sometimes the RP is ignored..... but other times the RP may just be interpreted different with different PO's... this is what is exciting to play in an online RP game....... you never know what the other PO may do, each will have a unique idea, if all the mechanics were the same... and no one had a choice in their RP, how dull the game would be.

Achae did not burn her hand cooking, she dropped the pot. The sickle did not slip from her hand, she fell in the mud in an attempt to try to pull up a herb that had long roots.

So, I guess the ultimate question is...should Illa head in the direction of game mechanics with only one set idea of the RP that should be done, or should we work one on one with those PO's basically new some not, to encourage some type of RP to an action in game?

[Pellandria]

Some sort of message will do it aswell, thanks.

Yeah, give the mages more power! They need it because they are soooooo useless at the moment.

I'm always asking myself where do people get this impression, mages are weak, can't carry any armor nor any larger metal object else their usefullness drops down like a rock.

Normally their stats are crap aswell as you need certaint attributs to even beginn casting magic not to talk about how usefull you are with only half assed stats... because that goes to zero, then mages need to wait for repleshing mana or use mana potions to even keep figthing, just because a few player tend t pg their chars and then kill people doesn't mean all mages would be indestructable..

I'm curious why noone ever mentions how unbalanced fighters are as those can..*gasp* kill people n a few swings!

[AlexRose]

Why not change the fightning system so that a heavy hit can stagger the opponent, breaking spells.
And make people thrown back by a spell stagger for a moment as well, so they can't just ignore it.

If you get hit you already stop casting.. and only really crap spells have no cast time.

And @Pella: No, you wouldn't want damage taken, what if you want to push someone across a broken bridge or something? Or what if you're just distancing someone from you and you don't want to hurt them? If you cause damage, they'll see that as you initiating a battle. Plus, you could just repeatedly push fighters away from you to kill them. In short: it'd be silly.

If you don't think someone rps your wind very well, first try to be understanding, they may be ignorant to the effects. Then if they persist to be stupid about it and it REALLY bothers you, just ignore them, as they ignore your rp. Or you could just do more detailed emotes. "#me waves their wand at the person, sending a strong wind flying into them, pushing them back with force". I think most people would be clear they'd fall over, crash into something or at least stumble if this happened. I don't think forced messages are very good, it's like telling you how you must rp.

[Damien]

One could extend the wind spell with the "evil" - rune. Whoever gets thrown around by this, will hear an evil laughter like : "BUA-HA-HA-HAAAA !"

---

Seriously now, the spell that creates flashes AND tosses people around is already existing, just use that if people insist not to RP.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

I'm curious why noone ever mentions how unbalanced fighters are as those can..*gasp* kill people n a few swings!

Why do you try to compare mages to fighters? Is a battlemage the only mage there is? Do you play a mage to compete with a fighter or do you play a mage because you are fascinated by magic itself? What about being able to cast walls or portals, or to summon creatures out of nowhere? Can anyone besides a mage do that? I don't think so. And the spell we are talking about in this thread is just another example of what mages are being capable of.

[Damien]

Why not just:

- increase the damage people can cause (magic AND weapons) by 20% if they have emoted during the last ten minutes, increase it by 40% if they have emoted during the last five minutes, increase it by 50% if they emoted during the last three minutes

- increase the damage a character GETS by 50% if they have not emoted during the last ten minutes, increase it by 30% if they have not emoted during the last five minutes, and by 20% if they have not emoted during the last three minutes

[Adano Eles]

One could extend the wind spell with the "evil" - rune. Whoever gets thrown around by this, will hear an evil laughter like : "BUA-HA-HA-HAAAA !"

How about making a Damien spell that makes non-rping players run away in fear?

[Senrin der Ältere]

Why not just:

- increase the damage people can cause (magic AND weapons) by 20% if they have emoted during the last ten minutes, increase it by 40% if they have emoted during the last five minutes, increase it by 50% if they emoted during the last three minutes

- increase the damage a character GETS by 50% if they have not emoted during the last ten minutes, increase it by 30% if they have not emoted during the last five minutes, and by 20% if they have not emoted during the last three minutes

Because that would lead to a lot of useless emotes

[AlexRose]

I'm curious why noone ever mentions how unbalanced fighters are as those can..*gasp* kill people n a few swings!

Why do you try to compare mages to fighters? Is a battlemage the only mage there is? Do you play a mage to compete with a fighter or do you play a mage because you are fascinated by magic itself? What about being able to cast walls or portals, or to summon creatures out of nowhere? Can anyone besides a mage do that? I don't think so. And the spell we are talking about in this thread is just another example of what mages are being capable of.

.. His point is that fighters are always saying to lower the power of mages, but if you look at it really, only very good mages stand chances in battle, and it takes a lot of work to get to that stage. Then there's the lack of stats left, and no armour, so you get killed easily too. Dom could kill Will in about 2.5 seconds. You think it's easy to react to select the right runes and target to blow them away, quickly heal yourself, blow them away again so they don't interupt your casting, cast a strong fireball, blow them away again or paralyse them, drink a potion cos you're out of mana, stall for time because your mana bar hasn't gone up yet because it doesn't rise immediately, then repeat to get 2 more hits, having played a mage for years? As long as a fighter isn't distanced from a mage, he can kill him in an instant. A fighter can kill a mage much faster than a mage can kill a fighter in my experience, mages just have the distance advantage. i.e. if archery was nerfed enough, archers would own everyone. And so you think spending so much time getting the power to actually be able to cast decent spells, getting the mana potions so you don't run out of mana during this and having to distance yourself from your foes or risk dying is overpowered? Plus, the wind spell untargets your foe, so you then have to quickly target them again, and they usually get back to where you are by that time. What people don't seem to realise is that a 3 con char getting hit by a good warrior is the same as a 3 ess char getting hit by a good mage, except the mage also has a casting time and a mana bar. But I like this balance, I'd never complain about fighters being too good, or mages being too good, I think we have a good balance, and I think it's a bad attitude to wish to lessen the power of a class because they can beat you.

[HolyKnight]

/signed I play them both so piss off with this mages are uber stronger then fighters.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

Hello!

A skilled fighter could easily kill a craftsman, a cook, a farmer, a bard, ... So back to my question, why do you have to compare mages to fighters? Why do you think that the mage class is a support class in so many games?
But back to topic. You complain that people do not play out the results of this spell. I have to agree with Faladron in that, that further increasing the power of this spell by additional coding other than a message is the wrong way. I'm with Nitram, that a message, explaining the effect of the spell, should do (for the moment).

With kind regards

[AlexRose]

As I stated, I also share the opinion, but wouldn't like the automessage as it kind of decides your rp for you, and will also make some people who would normally emote not feel the need to. Better descripted emotes from the caster would lead to better results from those hit by the spell imho.

And I'm not comparing mages to fighters, I'm arguing AGAINST people who already DO do that. People all the time talk about how powerful mages are and how it should be reduced blah blah, so I was just pointing out the facts of the matter.

[Mr. Cromwell]

Okay, as usual.. I feel the need to elaborate a little.

What do you think that the reaction of the players of these mage characters would be, when I would walk to them and say "#me pushes" and start pushing their character around?
Knowing some of them (for the sake of fairness it should be mentioned that for not every mage player is an OOC-crybaby. For instance Elderberry does rather fine job with not bitching in ooc..) the result would be a massive crying of "((OMG FORCE RP I HOPE THE GMS CASTRATE U BITCH!))" while at the same time, while managing to keep a straight face, they ask for more power and effect for their push (not to mention, that they have the pulls which can move practically anything in the game (stones, trees) in addition to this..) which is often used without any other #me's than which come out of the casting itself. Is that even better? No wai.

Then there is the slight problem of a mage pushing the person away with this and immediately blasting him with a spell, which has to be considered when planning for any 'additional effects'. Each time a person starts writing a #me on the ground, and 'wasting time' to climb up, he risks putting himself to an immediate disadvantage if the mage does decide to blast him. Why don't we throw in a nice 'immobility' there for the sake of 'realism'? Lets say three seconds. That should be enough for the mage to throw the person away, cast an additional paralysis and then a flame of somesort to finish the poor bugger off..

Let me tell you a little story to elaborate even further:
We have here a warrior, a pretty good one . Nice stats (?), good gear (if somewhat worn and definately nowhere near the absolute best) and good skills. Incidentally, he is my character.

Then we have a mage, a very good one. Equipped lavishly, probably making him more or less one of the strongest mages in the game (active).
I would however like to point out, that the actual skills of my character are better than his. We compared while I was writing.

We went to kill some monsters.
The presence of my character on the killing trip was honestly rather irrelevant. I doubt I could have tackled even one monster on my own (because slower attack speed doesn't mean a thing, when the attack is not being parried all the time. Just a hint for you, nitterz. ) without his healing. He on the other hand was able to kill up to (and probably more) four of such monsters simultaneously, wihtout it seeming like much of a chore at all. Of course, he consumed mana potions, but I consider mana potions vs. health to be a rather favourable trade-off for him. Most of the time, I just (very slowly) marched towards the monsters on rough terrain, traded three or four strikes with them (suggesting they weren't all dead already by the time I reached them.. ) and drew their attention while he just proceeded to destroy everything in sight. At some points, I felt that he was even holding back a little bit so I would have something to do as well.

Of course, he is a strong mage, but I would like to make a point here. I was trading my health for damage while attacking just one NPC rather unsuccesfully (while taking damage from several NPCs, bad recipe for success) while he was able to deal damage to nearly all of the monsters almost simultaneously and doing it about gazillion times faster than my character. Magic is the ultimate way you can kill someone in the game, bitch better recognize.

It is a very strong and versatile ranged attack with very few chances to avoid (and also, I'd argue, some spells are stronger than anything my character could ever hit, barring some effect with an uber-rare magical weapon which are probably more difficult to obtain than runes, thank you very much). It provides chances to travel quickly and flee. You don't suffer from wear on equipment. You can change the battlefield with walls and such. You can paralyse and throw enemies away from you. You can heal yourself while fighting. You don't have to trade health for damage while fighting.

What Pellandria here fails to comprehend is that when you make magic strong enough for pathetic crossbreeds (:P) like her character to "kick warriors like mages" or increase the strenght of spells in general, such moves basically elevate regular, real mages into demi-gods. Can a warrior kill a mage? Sure. Can you destroy a plane with a shotgun? Sure, but probably not when it is flying..

Not that I really say "nerf mages", but rather "Pellandria STFU already" and "Everyone, please acknowledge the considerable, direct and indirect advantages which mages have over the fighters, so we can continue this discussion in constructive manner.. of how we will nerf the mages!" (jk)

[AlexRose]

Mages>Fighters when fighting monsters (except dragons and golems), indeed. But if fighters can get close, mages can't do anything. As I said, if Dom ever tried to attack me, I'd be dead before I could choose my runes, and the healing isn't that good if your opponent is fast, as you can't cast full heal cos of the cast time and the standard heal will be less effective than the warrior's damage.

And yes I was holding back at some points xD

But anyways, sure if an awesome mage gets the first blow, he wins. If an awesome fighter gets the first blow, he wins. If a bad mage gets the first blow, he probably still loses against a bad fighter due to his ineffective spells. Maybe if he used mana potions and spammed fireballs then spammed healing it'd work . But, to be fair, the answer is: Fighters, don't piss off mages too much; mages, stand far back and ready your wand if you want to piss strong fighters off xD.

[Llama]

Seriously now, the spell that creates flashes AND tosses people around is already existing, just use that if people insist not to RP.

With a nice long casting time..

(not to mention, that they have the pulls which can move practically anything in the game (stones, trees) in addition to this.

How many mages can cast that? Nobody I know...

[AlexRose]

I THINK, but I'm not sure, that Nalc may be able to cast that. I seem to vaguely recall that. Otherwise I've never seen this spell cast

And also: Yes, a nice long cast time, damages yourself maybe, doesn't do much damage, needs decent skill to cast and even better skill to use effectively, hits the wrong people, might not even push them AND initiates a battle. Doesn't sound like a good idea to use it to me .

[Mr. Cromwell]

Yes, but to point out: Dom was the strongest warrior-character on the server. Your character probably had MUCH weaker skills (in comparison, what.. 40-30% lower?) than him, considering that your character has (even now) worse skills than my character. I'd assume that he also had the best gear you could have in the game, so of course he could own you, but even then.. the point is that at range, you would still own his ass any day of the week.

Despite the fact that you had just 'good' skills, he had 'bloody excellent' skills.

[AlexRose]

He was around when I could cast portals, and he could still own me with serinjahs. But Dain could own me, I guess Taliss could, maybe Deuce; I'm not sure about people's skills. As long as you can hit once a second I can't cast anything substantial. Say someone had archery, my char would be so owned.

[Adano Eles]

One should compare a good archer char with a mage as well before jumping to conclusions. Archers have a little slow firing speed, otherwise they could stop a mage from casting while damaging his health.

If everyone had the same abilities in the same fields then different classes would be useless.

[Mr. Cromwell]

I judge the usefulness of archers from the amount of archer-characters.

[AlexRose]

Max out tactics, ranged, get a drow bow, wind arrows, a fairy with maxed agl and then you would pwn me

[nmaguire]

Max out tactics, ranged, get a drow bow, wind arrows, a fairy with maxed agl and then you would pwn me

Drows chase you when you have drow bows, and then you have to sell it to someone working for them for an alright price