Im sure this has been talked about, yes I did do a search but it came up with irrelivant topics.
When you are killed, and you loose skills how is you skill lose determined.
Does the amount of skill you loose depend on the amount of damage you take on the killing blow or is it just a random amount?
Do all the skills share the reduction or is one skill chosen and reduced.
If one skill is chosen, how is it chosen? randomly or is it your highest skill.
A clear definate answer would be most appreciated.
skill loss through death
Moderator: Gamemasters
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Wolfskehl
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:32 am
- Location: Pipe in hand and nose in a book, sitting alone in a hobbit's den.
I'm not a 100% sure on the level of loss and how that is decided but all skills loose some when you die. I have heard rumors that attacking ghosts or the duration you spend as a ghost will result in a greater loss of skill, however I have no proof to back this up. Further, it is my understanding that there are ways of preventing loss of skills when you die.
from dieing many times here is what i know and it is pretty accurate
you lose skill the second you die, and on the old skill system it was a noticeable amount
you SLOWLY lose skill while dead and you usually dont notice it
ameythst rings help you not you lose as much skill the second you die
so fooser to answer your question i would rather be dead for one 1 minute than to die 10 times
you lose skill the second you die, and on the old skill system it was a noticeable amount
you SLOWLY lose skill while dead and you usually dont notice it
ameythst rings help you not you lose as much skill the second you die
so fooser to answer your question i would rather be dead for one 1 minute than to die 10 times
One very important thing to get through to the highly dangerous ignorantpoeple is;
every time you fail at resurecting someone through magic, it is treated as a death - i.e. they lose skill again.
So PLEASE! for the love of anything you may hold dear DO NOT try to REPEATEDLY resurect someone if you are not absolutely sure you can do it within at least 2 tries... Otherwise it is nearly as bad as res killing.
--Edit--
And Salathe, do not post what effects you think rings have.
1. You have no idea whether it's true or not.
2. It's an in game matter.
every time you fail at resurecting someone through magic, it is treated as a death - i.e. they lose skill again.
So PLEASE! for the love of anything you may hold dear DO NOT try to REPEATEDLY resurect someone if you are not absolutely sure you can do it within at least 2 tries... Otherwise it is nearly as bad as res killing.
--Edit--
And Salathe, do not post what effects you think rings have.
1. You have no idea whether it's true or not.
2. It's an in game matter.
I think for dying the current skill loss is fine.
What I would like to propose is something where a player doesnt die if his health bar goes down to nothing. I suggest there be chances for players. Something where a player can have his health bar go down to nothing and just become a "knocked-out" player instead of dying. The player could have say 5 chances for being knocked out before he finally must succumb to "death". Being knocked out could reduce a player's skill minimally. Any thoughts on this proposal?
-Elaralith
What I would like to propose is something where a player doesnt die if his health bar goes down to nothing. I suggest there be chances for players. Something where a player can have his health bar go down to nothing and just become a "knocked-out" player instead of dying. The player could have say 5 chances for being knocked out before he finally must succumb to "death". Being knocked out could reduce a player's skill minimally. Any thoughts on this proposal?
-Elaralith
Okay, I guess that means your skill takes a drop the moment you die and then also slowly declines while being a ghost. But I don't see an answer to the part of attacking ghosts, or failed resurrections, or maybe you're just not going to tell us? *shrugs*Bror wrote:When you die your mind suffers from a great shock. While beeing a ghost the memory of the thing you once learned slowly fade to nothingness. When you get ressurrected, your body and memory gets reproduced from the things that haven't faded away yet.
I can see the logic of the resurrection drawback so that not everyone will be resurrecting ghosts and most highly skilled people should be able to do it (Although this seems highly unfair to the ghost. Why should so many people even have the ability to TRY and resurrect him and bring him more suffering?). But I don't see the logic of the attacking ghost skill-loss function. It seems to me it will only serve to motivate people to attack ghosts for the sake of making them loose skill.
Once again I will say that I dislike the idea of considering this cloud transformation as death. In a roleplaying world, it just make no sense to me when people say things like "That dwarf killed me" or "I died 3 times today". For me, I wouldn't say that they died, and I would just say they are wounded hence the weakness to speak and jump, or that they got hit in the head, hence the skill memory loss.
About the attacking ghosts part, is it just magic attacks, weapon attacks, or both?
I also want to point out that while using a wand, people often click spells faster than they can actually cast it, and often when their opponent has become a cloud, the wand continues to casts all the spells on the ghost that have been clicked.
All sorts of attack, if a ghost takes damage it is changed into skill loss, and if you think of it how can you attack a ghost? And arnt ghost's supposed to remember thier events in life? Thus hauntings?
And by this I am not saying ghosts exist in real life.
And has the skill loss in death been changed appropriately to the 10x harder skill gain? So now you only loose a 1/10 of what you used to because it is harder to gain or has it remained the same?
Guingalan,
And by this I am not saying ghosts exist in real life.
And has the skill loss in death been changed appropriately to the 10x harder skill gain? So now you only loose a 1/10 of what you used to because it is harder to gain or has it remained the same?
Guingalan,
I simply don't know about it.Dyluck wrote:But I don't see an answer to the part of attacking ghosts, or failed resurrections, or maybe you're just not going to tell us?
@Serpardum/Shi'voc: Please check if reducing health that is already 0 causes a skilldrop again.
Me too. But I think we need a system where a permanent death is very rare. It wouldn't be logical either if we end every battle with a "knock out", since most fights are so serious, that the fighter would kill his opponent.Dyluck wrote: Once again I will say that I dislike the idea of considering this cloud transformation as death.
There will be a possibility to knock out people later, and this will reduce "deaths" some more, but it would be still too common to be a permanant death (in my opinion).
You are supposed to die less often, because of the account system and the reduction of PKs in Illarion. Has the skill loss in death been changed appropriately to x times more loss?Guingalan wrote:And has the skill loss in death been changed appropriately to the 10x harder skill gain? So now you only loose a 1/10 of what you used to because it is harder to gain or has it remained the same?
Ahhh, this was one of my favorite rumors. Oh well, time to get rid of the rumor. No, you do not loose more skill for a failed reserrection. You get the great skill loss when your hps are 0, then you loose the experience, then you become dead. If you are already dead, you do not get this great skill loss again.Bror wrote:I simply don't know about it.Dyluck wrote:But I don't see an answer to the part of attacking ghosts, or failed resurrections, or maybe you're just not going to tell us?
@Serpardum/Shi'voc: Please check if reducing health that is already 0 causes a skilldrop again.
Perhaps something on this line? While being attacked and your hps become zero, you would become unconscious. If you are continued to be attacked while unconscious, you will eventually die.Bror wrote:Me too. But I think we need a system where a permanent death is very rare. It wouldn't be logical either if we end every battle with a "knock out", since most fights are so serious, that the fighter would kill his opponent.Dyluck wrote: Once again I will say that I dislike the idea of considering this cloud transformation as death.
There will be a possibility to knock out people later, and this will reduce "deaths" some more, but it would be still too common to be a permanant death (in my opinion).
When you eventually die this would be the true death. Skill loss, looting rights, etc.. would need to be hammered out.
Before the 10x change, skill loss for dying was minimal, so that in a few hours it could be gained back, and people didn't care if they died or not, and that was very unrealistic, and did not lead to RP.Bror wrote:You are supposed to die less often, because of the account system and the reduction of PKs in Illarion. Has the skill loss in death been changed appropriately to x times more loss?Guingalan wrote:And has the skill loss in death been changed appropriately to the 10x harder skill gain? So now you only loose a 1/10 of what you used to because it is harder to gain or has it remained the same?
Now, people don't want to die.
Also, as Bror stated, with the applciation system PKing has become extremly rare. So the only ones who die are those who go to pick fights with monsters.
Deaths have become more rare for non combatants.
I like this ideal a lot. Instead of someone getting killed they would be knocked out. Then if the attacker wished they could deliver the killing blow. This would eliminate a lot of accidental deaths.Elaralith wrote:What I would like to propose is something where a player doesnt die if his health bar goes down to nothing. ........ Something where a player can have his health bar go down to nothing and just become a "knocked-out" player instead of dying. .........-Elaralith
@Dyluck Exactly, why, I proposed what I did. I too think it highly unrealistic and bad for RP to have characters "die" many times a day!
@Crocket A lot of accidental deaths would be eliminated, also more realistic
. My favorite term ->realism. I mean, how is it possible for anyone to just "die" many times day. I much prefer the term "knock-out". Roleplaying would be enhanced because fighters wouldn't have to say that they "died" fighting many times in combat.
@Bror I agree, death should be a rare thing. The current consequence for "dying" is good, but it is too easy to die.
@Crocket A lot of accidental deaths would be eliminated, also more realistic
. My favorite term ->realism. I mean, how is it possible for anyone to just "die" many times day. I much prefer the term "knock-out". Roleplaying would be enhanced because fighters wouldn't have to say that they "died" fighting many times in combat. @Bror I agree, death should be a rare thing. The current consequence for "dying" is good, but it is too easy to die.
People do die, but since this is roleplaying, I think a character should only be deemed dead if the player chooses so himself or gets deleted. Otherwise it seems there's no point of giving people the status of "dead". Peopel do supposedly die, but they will all always come back anyways and never be truly dead even if people must die, so it seems to me its makes more sense not to force the status of dead on to them.
I think right now the ghost characteristics already fits the description of a "heavily wounded" person. They can barely speak, only whisper, no energy to fight or jump, but only that they look like a cloud.
I think right now the ghost characteristics already fits the description of a "heavily wounded" person. They can barely speak, only whisper, no energy to fight or jump, but only that they look like a cloud.
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Wolfskehl
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:32 am
- Location: Pipe in hand and nose in a book, sitting alone in a hobbit's den.
It would seem that the game would allow for the spirit form to be an acceptable unconcious simply by saying that players pass into a spirit form before they die. At this point conventional weapons wouldn't seem appropriate to strike a spirit. However magic would seem more logical but the effects should be greatly reduced.
Also, is there a distinction between spirits and ghosts? I generally think that a ghost is an apperation of someone who is deceased... meaning no coming back. While a spirit is the essence of a being trapped in a limbo awaiting return to its body or any suitable host. - Just a thought.
Also, is there a distinction between spirits and ghosts? I generally think that a ghost is an apperation of someone who is deceased... meaning no coming back. While a spirit is the essence of a being trapped in a limbo awaiting return to its body or any suitable host. - Just a thought.
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Sir Gannon
- Posts: 364
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- Location: Gathering himself for battle.
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Maybe this is one thing that cant be improved on TO much. I know we want to make this as real as possible game. But when it comes right down to it , It is a GAME. No way to get around that. Maybe it will just have to be one of the 'unexplained' things. Maybe you could improve upon it some. Like being able to be knocked out or something. But to mess with something that has been ok for a long time now, Even with the new skill system in place. Seems kinda silly to me. 
Wolfskehl, not actually knowing whether spirits exist or not its a hard question to answer, and its getting off the point, we need to be more careful of getting off the point.
Quite right Gannon, but then you can argue you can always improove upon things, I have no problem with the current death system as I am a fighter and havn't died once yet.
Guingalan,
Quite right Gannon, but then you can argue you can always improove upon things, I have no problem with the current death system as I am a fighter and havn't died once yet.
Guingalan,
I don't see such a big problem with beeing dead in a game as other people seem to. I would like to have deaths a lot less often, but I can accept that people are dead some time and come to life again, without seeing my roleplay disturbed. Illarion is a fantasy world, where much of the laws of our RL apply, but there is also magic and ressurrection by magic (by __strong__ magicians, not the everyday mage).
Anyway I still think, that death should be a painful thing to be feared, not taken as lightly as now.
Anyway I still think, that death should be a painful thing to be feared, not taken as lightly as now.
Of course death should be feared, so how can a character fear death if they know they can always come back to life anytime by a cross or a mage, and everywhere there are people who have died X times before and are still well and alive? Right now, from the character's piont of view, they would think they are immortal. Only the player is fearing death right now because of the skill loss.
On the other hand, characters that haven't died before will still fear death, as normal people fear the unknown. If the game status of "death" was turned into "wounded", it would still make sense because the character would not know that he never dies and would still fear death. Everytime a character is "wounded" he would be thankful for his luck to survive, not think 'Wow I survived so many times so I must be immortal'. Death would still exist, but it would be roleplayed when players choose to stop playing a character and say he died, or delete their characters or get banned and such.
It would eliminate the senselessness people everywhere coming back to life every day, telling about how many times they died before. It's meaningless to say there must be death in Illarion, when "death" does not mean they don't come back. It just makes so much more sense to me to say they have been wounded instead of dead, since they will come back in a few minutes no matter what anyways.
It's useless to try and make death more feared and rare simply by increasing the consenquences of death. All it really accomplishes is make the PLAYER fear death, but doesn't add any sense to the character's point of view. It would only reduce some numbers of death only because it reduces the PLAYER's will to fight, and at the same time it reduces a lot of willingness to participate in a lot of possible good roleplay scenarios that involve fighting.
Then take this situation for example: Imagine if I were a spy and I was listening to a secret conversation, but then I get discovered and turned into a "cloud".
If this means I'm dead, then what happens next? Does it make sense that I can just float to a cross and get back to life, and then I can go tell somebody about the secret? Or should I forget what I learned and also forget everything and everyone that my character ever knew? And how many people would have to play this little amnesia every month, week, or day?
On the other hand if being a cloud means I was only wounded, it would still make sense that I still had a chance to get away, although my enemies may be able to capture me because I moved slower, couldn't jump, and couldn't shout for help. But if I escape, it makes sense that I can tell somebody the secret I learned. Eventually every wounded would escape (in most cases) and get healthy again, but this is only known to the player, while from the character's point of view, this is only a stroke of good luck of survival, not a sign of immortality like the constant resurrection of people who claim they've died before would create.
It makes more sense for a character to think "I was lucky to survive 4 times before" instead of "I was lucky that I was resurrected 4 times before."
On the other hand, characters that haven't died before will still fear death, as normal people fear the unknown. If the game status of "death" was turned into "wounded", it would still make sense because the character would not know that he never dies and would still fear death. Everytime a character is "wounded" he would be thankful for his luck to survive, not think 'Wow I survived so many times so I must be immortal'. Death would still exist, but it would be roleplayed when players choose to stop playing a character and say he died, or delete their characters or get banned and such.
It would eliminate the senselessness people everywhere coming back to life every day, telling about how many times they died before. It's meaningless to say there must be death in Illarion, when "death" does not mean they don't come back. It just makes so much more sense to me to say they have been wounded instead of dead, since they will come back in a few minutes no matter what anyways.
It's useless to try and make death more feared and rare simply by increasing the consenquences of death. All it really accomplishes is make the PLAYER fear death, but doesn't add any sense to the character's point of view. It would only reduce some numbers of death only because it reduces the PLAYER's will to fight, and at the same time it reduces a lot of willingness to participate in a lot of possible good roleplay scenarios that involve fighting.
Then take this situation for example: Imagine if I were a spy and I was listening to a secret conversation, but then I get discovered and turned into a "cloud".
If this means I'm dead, then what happens next? Does it make sense that I can just float to a cross and get back to life, and then I can go tell somebody about the secret? Or should I forget what I learned and also forget everything and everyone that my character ever knew? And how many people would have to play this little amnesia every month, week, or day?
On the other hand if being a cloud means I was only wounded, it would still make sense that I still had a chance to get away, although my enemies may be able to capture me because I moved slower, couldn't jump, and couldn't shout for help. But if I escape, it makes sense that I can tell somebody the secret I learned. Eventually every wounded would escape (in most cases) and get healthy again, but this is only known to the player, while from the character's point of view, this is only a stroke of good luck of survival, not a sign of immortality like the constant resurrection of people who claim they've died before would create.
It makes more sense for a character to think "I was lucky to survive 4 times before" instead of "I was lucky that I was resurrected 4 times before."