Player to Player Harassment Rule

Jaren · Post by **Jaren** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:10 am

In light of one of our own saying they have been thoroughly harassed by another player but there are no rules for it I would propose that a rule is added so such harassment cannot take place. As both individuals involved would be playing Illarion, the staff should be used as a medium between the two parties to solve the problem.

The rule should go somewhere along the lines of:

Harssment of players:

S.1 - A player is not allowed too harass another player via OOC methods. Either through use of the illarion forum's private messaging or another communication (illarion irc, msn, yahoo etc). Extensive trolling on the illarion forums will also be grounds for punishment.
S.2 - Harassment is using swear words, derogatory terms, and stalkerish terms with the player who clearly is not enjoying the exchange.
S.3 - A 1-3 month ban will be expected if a player is found guilty of harassing another player or multiple players. Continuing this harassment will result in a maximum of 6 month ban from Illarion the game and it's forums.

I feel adding more specific rules will help curb alot of the problems illarion faces, (mainly tension between players). If players learn that they must play nice because if they don't they will get in trouble then they will start playing nice.

You do not need to be friends with everyone, but you should be cordial with everyone.

I vote yes for this

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:57 am

Harassment is rarely one-sided. And thank you, but I will tell who ever I want to smile off.

Post by **Nitram** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:41 am

Is a rule for this really needed?

Is our community that childisch and that those rules are needed? Shouldn't it be clear that you don't harass other players?

Jaren · Post by **Jaren** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:24 pm

As GMs have told one of our own they cannot stop another player from writing them ridiculous forum private messages as well as harassing them on msn, yes.

Post by **Jupiter** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:46 pm

Erm... I'm not sure, but a rule like "You are not allowed to insult a person about MSN" can't work, I think.

Because what happens over MSN is business of Microsoft.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:46 pm

i would suggest, to close down the general and the off-topic forums.
and to give everybody, who missbehaves verbally on the remaining boards or ingame at least a temporal ban for forums and for the game.

Saril · Post by **Saril** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:28 pm

1.When a planer big occ ig or as pm - gor to a gm (!gm). When a planer Harass in MSN or Otter - Blocket him

2. Whe have ruls for swear words.

3. See 2.

@Korn yes

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:11 pm

We already have this rule. It is #1.

Server rules wrote:One must not spoil the fun of others playing this game.

Deinarious · Post by **Deinarious** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:08 am

Shouldn't it be for both in-game and out-of-character?

SirOwnU · Post by **SirOwnU** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:26 am

If they are harrasing the *person* then yes I would agree with a month ban or so. If they are harrasing the *character* then they are just role-playing and it is fine, but I'm still completely for this idea if they were harrassing the *person.* Besides I find that all games need nice players and mean bad *** players. If there were no bad *** players in a game then it would be boring and dull with no conflict. If there were no nice players in the game then it would be complete chaos. I don't think the bad *** players should be banned for super long unless they did something severe. Otherwise they should just suffer a small punishment and go on like that.

Post by **Nitram** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:32 pm

We are not the parents of all players.

If the player get harassed in the game, or by using the board, those players will be treated in the way they deserve it.

In case that harassement is done by any messanger system its not up to Illarion to do anything. But EVERY messanger service offers the possibility to ignore users.

I think any additional rule is completly unneeded.

Nitram

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:44 pm

Too many rules going into detail are bad (nobody cares to read them all anymore then)

nmaguire · Post by **nmaguire** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:37 pm

Faladron wrote:Too many rules going into detail are bad (nobody cares to read them all anymore then)

...so every rule should be vague and ununderstable should it? I'm sure that would help to keep crime down in the world

Bellringer · Post by **Bellringer** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:09 pm

I'd say no to this - what happens off the forums and out of game is no concern of the game or forum.

We need no rules to monitor any other medium of conversation, because as Nitram says, we are not childish enough to need these. What people say in their own time is their own business, and they should be adult enough to deal with those without calling on the GMs.

Jaren · Post by **Jaren** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:36 pm

There are anti harassment laws in real life.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:42 pm

Jaren wrote:There are anti harassment laws in real life.

... yes there are.

Sexual harassment for instance.

And these magical things called "restraining orders".

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:43 pm

O=

Yooh call me da 'H' word!
I calling Nora!

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:29 pm

what happens off the forums and out of game is no concern of the game or forum.

i disagree.
reading this i must think of priests, who say, that manslaughter is nothing concerning them, if it happens outside of the church.

as we all know, there are cases of harassment outside of illa, but caused by feelings from inside illa.
if such cases will be ignored, then we will see entire MSN-campains, to get rid of players.
i don't think, that all of us should turn our back, untill it hits each of us...

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:38 pm

That's one of the largest piles of dung I've read so far.
'Grats.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:44 pm

Korm Kormsen wrote:
what happens off the forums and out of game is no concern of the game or forum.
i disagree.
reading this i must think of priests, who say, that manslaughter is nothing concerning them, if it happens outside of the church.

as we all know, there are cases of harassment outside of illa, but caused by feelings from inside illa.
if such cases will be ignored, then we will see entire MSN-campains, to get rid of players.
i don't think, that all of us should turn our back, untill it hits each of us...

There's this magical thing called "blocking" which you do to people you don't like.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:45 pm

There's this magical thing called "blocking" which you do to people you don't like.

and there is a natural thing named brains, you should start to use.
by just blocking persons, who poison the atmosphere of the comunity, we never get a better comunity.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:47 pm

When I decide to call someone an asshole through an instant messenger, it should be between myself and that person, without the asshole (which obviously has to be true, since I said it!) in question lacking spine and consequently attempt to get back at me by trying to get me banned from Illarion.

Sometimes it's about the person, and it simply happens to be a coincident that we play the same game (take note that I only call PO Duchan with names on a regular basis

). Besides, 'harassment' is way too broad definition for something which potentially gets people banned from the game anyway. I wouldn't consider someone calling me with names over msn to be harassment (just pathetic and/or annoying, which I can deal with a ban) whereas someone else's bloated honour would require the player to go for the banishment of the name caller from the game.

If the anything happens in some place completely unconnected to Illa, it should have no bearing here. Otherwise we'll have people getting banned for calling someone's bud an asshole..

Please, however emotionally unstable and easily upsettable your average illa-player may (or may not) be, there's no reason to try (in vain) to regulate and protect them from everything that goes on in the net. I can't see how trying to make the staff police any additional mediums of communication outside Illarion would be a good way of using the limited time and resources of the staff. When someone is harassing you on whatever other place, ban them/contact the service provider and get over yourself.

Besides, I don't even think that the staff wants to get involved with settling the personal, out of game disputes between two grown up players (and the inevitable flaming, lies and dirt-throwing which is involved).

I sure as hell wouldn't want that.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:48 pm

Remember this:

1) Legally, the 'power' of illarion and its rules only stretch to the services IT offers.
2) I, personally, am not an "Illarionplaying terminal", neither is anyone else. We are humans (well, some of us at least) who get angry, feel emotion ect...

Keeping this in mind, there is no reason WHY a person should be punished in a game, for what he did OUT of the game.

I rest my case...

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:52 pm

Korm Kormsen wrote:
There's this magical thing called "blocking" which you do to people you don't like.
and there is a natural thing named brains, you should start to use.
by just blocking persons, who poison the atmosphere of the comunity, we never get a better comunity.

..And banning someone on "He said, she said"-grounds helps to make a better athmosphere? I foresee such clear rule as being used for offended people (for whatever reason, good or not) to try and get back at someone who doesn't deserve it for real. Getting back at people for whatever minor source of annoyance blown completely out of proportions. In such case, then it's just a fact of who the GM's believe more. A thought which somehow makes me feel not-so comfortable (not that I wouldn't trust the ..fair and balanced judgement of the staff 100% the time.

)

No way.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:59 pm

well, i hope, i will be pardoned, for being so oldfashioned to believe, that evading personal assaults betters the atmosphere.

merry christmas

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:03 pm

Well, actually, I think that saying that stuff out loud might actually improve things on the long run.

Because one thing is for sure: Not saying what you feel in the end doesn't make the feelings (and the following actions) disappear. At least, when you say that you think I'm an asshole, then I know what you think about me for real. Then maybe (if I care enough for your opinion) we can actually focus on what has made you think in such way and change things.

But anyway, Merry Christmas.

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:43 pm

nmaguire wrote:
Faladron wrote:Too many rules going into detail are bad (nobody cares to read them all anymore then)
...so every rule should be vague and ununderstable should it? I'm sure that would help to keep crime down in the world

§1
If someone attacks someone else and harms him physically he shall be punished with...

or

§1 a
If someone attacks someone else using

a bat, a short stick, a long stick, a thick stick, a short metal bar, a thick metal bar, a short chrome metal bar, a cricket bat, an umbrella suitable for hitting someone, a piece of wood, a board of wood, a board of mapple tree wood, or a board of conifer wood

and harms him at

his forehead, on his cheek, at his jar, on his neck, on his back, on his shoulders, on his chest, on his groin, on his right leg, on his left leg, on his right arm or his left arm

then he shall be punished with...

which kind of rule do you like more? Those who put things simple for everyone to understand or those being uber-specific.

That was my point, your interpretation of my words were wrong, sorry.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:51 pm

What about a pointy stick? </monty python>

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:30 pm

Nathan pushed me off a seat on the bus, punched me a few times and often annoys me by being argumentative for no reason, can he be punished please?

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:36 pm

Rules don't solve problems, society does...

Illarion.org

Player to Player Harassment Rule

Harassment rules, yes or no?

Player to Player Harassment Rule