Sprachwipe ~ Language wipe

Kadiya · Post by **Kadiya** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:49 pm

Mit dem letzten Serverupdate wurden alle rassenfremden Sprachen von allen Charakteren gelöscht. Ebenso wurden alle sich noch im Spiel befindlichen Sprachbücher, mit Ausnahme der Ancient-Bücher, gelöscht.

Leider ist dies notwendig geworden, da sich diese Sprachen in einem Umfang ausgebreitet haben, der die Unterteilung in Rassenspezifische Sprachen so gut wie sinnlos gemacht hat.

Ich kann verstehen, dass dies besonders die Spieler trifft, die schon lange Zeit mit diesen Sprachen spielen, aber aufgrund der momentanen Lage ist das für uns die einzige akzeptable Alternative, die sich neben dem "Wir schalten die Rassenspezifischen Sprachen komplett ab" für uns noch bietet.

Es ist nicht ausgeschlossen, dass es irgendwann wieder möglich sein wird eine rassenfremde Sprache zu lernen. Aber dafür haben wir selbst bisher noch keine sinnvolle Lösung gefunden. Wenn sich also jemand berufen fühlt ein vernünftiges Lernsystem auszuarbeiten würden wir uns freuen, wenn er diese Ideen an uns schickt.

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All languages that do not fit your race were removed with the last serverupdate. Also all language books, with the exception of the ancient books, were deleted.

Unfortunately this is a necessary step, because these languages expands in such a large scale, that the classification in different rece-specific languages becomes as good as useless.

I can understand, that this especially hart for those characters, which play with the language long time ago, but about the actual situation there is no other acceptable alternative for us, except for completly remove of the racespecific languages from the game.

It is not impossible, that it would be sometime possible to learn languages that do not fit your race. But at the moment we have no idea, how we could implement this useful. So, if anyone has good ideas about a senseful learing system, feel free to send us our ideas.

Kadiya

Amras Telemnar · Post by **Amras Telemnar** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:57 pm

Auf was soll den dieses Lernsystem basieren?

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:15 am

Lol, William Elderberry caused this wipe.

Amras Telemnar · Post by **Amras Telemnar** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:22 am

Juliana D'cheyne · Post by **Juliana D'cheyne** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:31 am

Possibly very high library skill-a book only able to be understood at all in the library if the skill is high enough and even then not fully understand the language of another race (possibly like every other or third word)? This would keep the language mainly race dependent but allow at least a little interaction.

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:40 am

I love how changes like this occur with 0 warning or even,
Speaking with the players. I'm sure a few char-stories and backgrounds just got royally fucked in the ass.

~Eric

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:07 am

Lance Thunnigan wrote:I love how changes like this occur with 0 warning or even,
Speaking with the players. I'm sure a few char-stories and backgrounds just got royally fucked in the ass.

~Eric

No, no...They discuss everything with the players like the recent changes int he fighting system...oh wait...err....uhh...hmmm.

Post by **Nitram** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:30 am

@Lance Thunnigan:

All language skills got allready wiped once ( a few months ago as far as I remember ). I left a few language learning books in the game, hoping that the players are responsible to spread the knowledge about languages in a reasonable way.
Sadly a allready mentioned player was not responsible enougth and spreaded the language to every second character who crossed his way.

I was not involved in the desicion to wipe the language skills but i fully support it.
And "char-stories with backgrounds" that build up on the unreasonable spreading of one character who throws the languages around like mad, are sadly now "royally fucked in the ass". As you said.

Nitram

martin · Post by **martin** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:23 am

I wonder how much influence players have on decisions in other games.

What would have been the benefit of warning you? I mean, there was nothing you could have done, like save your skills in the depot or something.

Martin

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:32 am

martin wrote:What would have been the benefit of warning you? I mean, there was nothing you could have done, like save your skills in the depot or something.

Pre-Decision flaming?

Thorwald · Post by **Thorwald** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:43 am

Für was gibts denn sonst die Allgemeine und die Rasseneigene Sprache wenn jeder einfach so mal eben eine andere dritte Sprache lernen kann .
Ich würde es gar nicht mehr möglich machen eine Sprache zu lernen die nicht zur Rasse gehört , oder die Rasseneigenen Sprachen einfach wieder rausnehmen .

Ah und um es nicht zu vergessen , Vielen Dank Kadiya das du im Moment als einzige ein wichtiges Thema Zweisprachig angefangen hast ,nicht nur in der Überschrift sondern auch im nachfolgendem Text

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:51 am

martin wrote:I wonder how much influence players have on decisions in other games.

Illarion is online since Februrary 2000 and it's always being developed by programers and volunteers to fit and satisfy the wishes of the player community.

Quote taken from the main page...

Just because others do it, doesn't mean its good or we should to. (Argumentum ad popolum)

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:07 am

Julia to skill the libary research, jsut let me say its a pain in the ass and even after learning a language from the book, you still need months to speak it good enough, that everyone can understand it.

martin · Post by **martin** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:21 pm

@Hadrian:
You're right, just because others do something we don't have to do it as well.

However, as for satisfying the wishes of the players, naturally our players do not share ONE opinion but a wide variety of opinions. We have to pick the one which we believe to make sense and just do it.

Kadiya actually is PART of that player community, just to give you a hint.

Martin

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:20 am

I just have a little to add, for the GM's.

It's a shame that we must all pay for the folly of one, but I understand.

Problem is, how do we continue with RP of friends who spoke other languages?

My Character Darby speaks only Halfling for RP reasons. In fact, her 'Common' Language skill was deleted by request to make her RP more 'real' for me. It's hard not to react when you can still understand what 'common' characters are saying.

In the course of RP, she met Magnus, who spoke Halfling due to his exposure to Gilbert and many other Halflings. He was instrumental in getting Darby into the Union, as well as being the only customer for her baked goods.

Now....well....Damn! It's just annoying now! What am I supposed to do, say Darby doesn't know Magnus anymore? I'm not really sure where to take the RP from here.

I don't want the 'common' skill back yet, the RP is fun and I believe every character should have a real or RP'd handicap of some sort to make them more 'realistic'. Dusty was missing a finger, had mental 'anguish' and wasn't very strong at all. Scott is the only 'true english' character in Nordmark (Yeah, it's a disability). Darby can only speak Halfling. I remember some people played deaf, or even limping characters (Korm!) which made for awesome RP if you could be patient and get into it.

I just get confused when GM's change something and now we all have to adjust our RP to fit. It seems to happen way too often. Could the GM's at least include 'system' changes as a result of some 'quest' or storyline? Isn't that what we're here for is RP? I loved how the Nordmarkers blame the Elves for wiping out armors and weapons in the last update of the crafting system, totally believable. They have made it a part of their storyline.

Why can't the staff make system changes believable IG as well? I think we'd have more fun with it instead of these 'unannounced' changes that leave us dazed and confused, going WTF?????

Think about it please?

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:57 am

You still can understand an #me, so just writte something like "#me says in the halfling language" this way you still can play like you actually would speak halfling.

Noradur · Post by **Noradur** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:27 am

Juniper Onyx wrote:I just have a little to add, for the GM's.

It's a shame that we must all pay for the folly of one, but I understand.

Problem is, how do we continue with RP of friends who spoke other languages?

My Character Darby speaks only Halfling for RP reasons. In fact, her 'Common' Language skill was deleted by request to make her RP more 'real' for me. It's hard not to react when you can still understand what 'common' characters are saying.

In the course of RP, she met Magnus, who spoke Halfling due to his exposure to Gilbert and many other Halflings. He was instrumental in getting Darby into the Union, as well as being the only customer for her baked goods.

Now....well....Damn! It's just annoying now! What am I supposed to do, say Darby doesn't know Magnus anymore? I'm not really sure where to take the RP from here.

I don't want the 'common' skill back yet, the RP is fun and I believe every character should have a real or RP'd handicap of some sort to make them more 'realistic'. Dusty was missing a finger, had mental 'anguish' and wasn't very strong at all. Scott is the only 'true english' character in Nordmark (Yeah, it's a disability). Darby can only speak Halfling. I remember some people played deaf, or even limping characters (Korm!) which made for awesome RP if you could be patient and get into it.

I just get confused when GM's change something and now we all have to adjust our RP to fit. It seems to happen way too often. Could the GM's at least include 'system' changes as a result of some 'quest' or storyline? Isn't that what we're here for is RP? I loved how the Nordmarkers blame the Elves for wiping out armors and weapons in the last update of the crafting system, totally believable. They have made it a part of their storyline.

Why can't the staff make system changes believable IG as well? I think we'd have more fun with it instead of these 'unannounced' changes that leave us dazed and confused, going WTF?????

Think about it please?

Kadiya wrote: It is not impossible, that it would be sometime possible to learn languages that do not fit your race. But at the moment we have no idea, how we could implement this useful. So, if anyone has good ideas about a senseful learing system, feel free to send us our ideas.

Kadiya

Dont worry.. its nessecary at the moment, but we will think of something, during that time, well, i recommend suggestion

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:23 am

Pellandria wrote:You still can understand an #me, so just writte something like "#me says in the halfling language" this way you still can play like you actually would speak halfling.

Umm...you don't understand. How can I #me speaks in Halfling....if the characters can't speak it anymore???? Not very wise and really an abuse of the #me system if you ask me. I won't do it.

Besides, she only speaks Halfling....No Common skill....so how are they to respond back, huh?

Nah, I knew there was a possibility of only speaking to Halflings when I made the character, that's OK. I was just pointing out how RP can really be messed up with these unannounced changes. It's the RP, that makes these characters fun and real for players. The characters begin to take on a life of their own, and then suddenly *Whoosh* "Suddenly you can't speak to your best friend anymore" WTF?

Messing up RP with these sudden system changes is like having a 'virtual' earthquake. Same suddeness, unpredictability, and same amount of damage.

I'd just like the staff to consider working system changes into RP IG in the future. I think it would be more fun, and allows the players time to adjust their RP to suit it.

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:50 am

Silas Farron wrote:What the smile?!
Seriously now, I invested a lot of tme and RP in Silas' language skills, not to say that they are, just with the exception of his (not even so good) magic skills, his only good skills.

Couldn't you just check wo still uses/needs/RPs with his languageskills and let the people who ue thme wisely keep them?
I understand that it sucks when a Int4-Warrior can speak three languags fluently, but a wise mage... well whatever. I'm really pissed.

EDIT: Replace "smile" with an f, an u, a c and a k. Preferrably in capital letters.
Bleh.

/signed

Kadiya · Post by **Kadiya** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:58 am

Right. So lets remove the race specific languages from game?

Because this was the only alternative for us.

But if you have a good idea to differentiate the RP-Learner from the PG-Learner lets hear.

We are open to realize useful possibilities we couldn't think of.

You can reach me per msn, icq, PN, ig, occ or here

Taeryon Silverlight · Post by **Taeryon Silverlight** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:38 am

I allready suggested something about half a year ago, but the staff put the idea into the trasher and said there will never be a possibility to learn the languages again.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:08 am

I personally dislike the fact others can learn any language they want just by reading the books. If there is a logical RP reason that your character knew the language he learned other than the fact that it "expanded his knowledge" or "I just wanted to" then good.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:33 am

Kadiya wrote:But if you have a good idea to differentiate the RP-Learner from the PG-Learner lets hear.

The person makes an application to a GM, the GM gives him 1 skill point if he can give a good roleplay reason for learning the language, and if the roleplay reason isn't good for passive, he'll have to look for a teacher to rp-teaching him.

(For example: A human emissary who trades a lot with halflings would learn halfling passivly; no need to look for a teacher, he just gains the 1 skillpoint. A person who wants to learn elvish because he's a half-elf and wants to look into his culture has to look for an IG teacher).

If a person had the language before, then he has to explain to a GM why his language was valid given his roleplay background.

There, simple isn't it?

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:42 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
Kadiya wrote:But if you have a good idea to differentiate the RP-Learner from the PG-Learner lets hear.
The person makes an application to a GM, the GM gives him 1 skill point if he can give a good roleplay reason for learning the language, and if the roleplay reason isn't good for passive, he'll have to look for a teacher to rp-teaching him.

(For example: A human emissary who trades a lot with halflings would learn halfling passivly; no need to look for a teacher, he just gains the 1 skillpoint. A person who wants to learn elvish because he's a half-elf and wants to look into his culture has to look for an IG teacher).

If a person had the language before, then he has to explain to a GM why his language was valid given his roleplay background.

There, simple isn't it?

Most people did this,
And look now? No languages.

Post by **Nitram** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:09 pm

The language skills got wiped, I think you all got this. We had our good reasons for this. There were no characters who got the language by a GM. All came from a already named player.

Furthermore its not possible to determine with a database query who roleplays good or who roleplayes bad. To delete every skill on its own after checking the background of the character was due the huge amount of skills to delete sadly not possible.

After all you have to get along with this.

In case you think that its absolutly needed for your character that he can speak a different language then its own character language, feel free to contact the GMs in order to find individual solutions.

Noradur, Zuikden, Estralis Seborian, Naerwyn

In case you have ideas for a automatic teaching system feel free to contact one of our developers or use the proposals board. There are currently absolutly no plans and ideas for that.

Cassandra Fjurin, martin, Kadiya, Nitram, Vilarion

Further discussions are not needed.

Nitram

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Die Sprachskills wurden gelöscht. Ich denke das haben alle mitbekommen. Wir hatten unsere Gründe für diesen Schritt. Diese Skills kamen nicht von den GMs sondern wurden von einem bereits genannten Spieler ins Spiel geworfen.

Außerdem ist es mit einem Datenbank Aufruf schwer festzustellen, wer gutes Rollenspiel betreibt und wer nicht. Und es war nicht möglich jeden Charakter auf der Liste derer die die Skills verloren haben einzlen zu prüfen auf Grund der enormen Menge der Skills die gelöscht werden mussten.

Am Ende werdet ihr alle damit umgehen müssen.

Im Falle das es absolut notwendig ist das dein Charakter eine andere Sprache spricht als die eigene Charaktersprache, solltet ihr die GMs kontaktieren um eigene Lösungen zu finden.

Noradur, Zuikden, Estralis Seborian, Naerwyn

Solltet ihr Ideen für ein neues automatisiertes System haben kontaktiert einen der Entwickler oder schreibt im Vorschläge Board. Im Augenblick gibt es keine Pläne wie so ein System aussehen soll oder kann.

Cassandra Fjurin, martin, Kadiya, Nitram, Vilarion

Weitere Diskussionen sind nicht nötig.

Nitram