what is powergaming?

[Korm Kormsen]

I think I did pgame in the first few months of illa, but...I was a n00b.

this sentence made me think.

i came to the conclusion, that my chars might be powergaming the more, the longer they exist.
simply, because they get more reasons for the use of the engine-play features.
let me give some examples. (just from my own chars, to offend nobody)

my farmer gets lots of orders for his products, specially onions.
so if there is no other player in nordmark, i let him plant onions. first to multiplicate seed, then to harvest onions.
that can easy surpass one, or sometimes two hours without interchange with other chars.
but i make the char work so long, because other chars made orders for the products.
so is that powergaming or not?

my fighter goes to the crypt, or to the goblins, to make some coppers and find sellable junk.going from one room to the other, till he can't carry no more.
is that powergaming?

my brickmaker goes on, making bricks, or gathering clay in a cowdepot, till he got no more food.
just to produce the needed bricks for a building project.
ignoring messages about feeling tired totally.
just to pass weeks only socializing and without any work, once the building is made.
is that powergaming?

somehow these behaviours seem to be that, what is called powergaming.
on the other hand, i think, i could give a lot of reasons -roleplay reasons - why the chars behave in that way.

so what is powergaming?
the simple fact, to use engine-features of the game?
or amount of time spent on engine-play?
or what?

i would be thankfull for answers, that are longer than three or four words.

korm

[Jupiter]

To ignore messages that you need to rest is powergaming in my eyes.
When I get such a message I stop instantly to go one with the work, in the normal case. ( When my fighter is fighting some monsters with other chars, I can't stop instantly, this could bring the other char in danger )

That your farmer grows so much, because he has so much orders isn't powergamung in my eyes, just play that your char is a very hard working farmer.

[Djironnyma]

powergaming starts there, were it is more important for you to raise a skill as to make roleplay...

that means also to do things to raise your skills witch doesn't fit your role,...

[Pellandria]

Powergaming is, atleast in my eyes, only something that doesn't fit in your role. Digging for clay or figthing just to gain money/items and still getting the message is in a grey zone, but going to the graveyard/swamp ust to stay there untill the skill cap hits and then going back is a waste of time, other exampels are cutting tress, you can cut maybe 7 trees untill you hit your cap, who would stop after just a few trees, then noone could actually use the carpentry skills.

The only time I stop working or doing something, is if I only do the certaint work for pure skillgain, because its sensless to work on otherwise or if I find someone to rp with.

[Arien Edhel]

Powergaming is doing the same action for a space of time (~10 to 15 minutes) without a break or roleplay.

[Pellandria]

than nearly every player is a powergamer...

[Arien Edhel]

If you don't make a break or emote - yes.

[Werner von Mintraching]

Oh is aber blöd...
Ich mein ich steh da so in Grenn und da is keine Seele.
Ich habe aber einen Auftrag und um ihn zu erfüllen werde ich natürlich eine Weile hintereinander etwas tun. "müssen"
Ich ignoriere die Meldung, dass ich nichtmehr lernen kann

A) weil einer dem es um den Skill geht der geht mit dem Char off und spielt der weil denn nächsten.
B) ich ja einen Auftrag habe.

Ich bin neu hier und habe keine Ahnung wo RP anfängt und wo Powerplay anfängt und ich denke diese Grenzen verschwimmen auch leicht.
Ich verstand bis dato unter Powerplay wenn man spielt nur um des Skills wegen.
Es mag aber auch einem anfänger schwierig erscheinen einen stolzen sagen wir Krieger-Char zu spielen, der sich von jedem Kind eine Blutige Nase holt.
In realität würde er auch üben im Game ist schnell Powergame.
Wenn ich eine Tätigkeit mache weil ich Bestellungen habe dann mache ich es nicht wegen des Skills sondern weil ich eben Arbeit und einen Ruf habe den es zu erhalten gilt das fällt für mich nicht unter Powergame.

Vieleicht liege ich auch falsch und ich muss das anders angehen bin neugierig auf die Antworten.

Gruß

Werner

[Kevin Lightdot]

10-15 is a bit short if you talk to me, I mean.. lol, everyone does that at times, if there is noone on to rp with, or noone near, we should randomly emote something every 15 minuites to noone at all?

[Dariya]

than nearly every player is a powergamer...

signed


as it was already said, powergaming is doing certain actions for skillgaining again and again, if
a) they do not fit the char
b) other chars' rp is ignored during "working", if someone else is present
c) messages like "you need to rest", "you cannot concentrate anymore" are ignored constantly and several times


and no, I do not always roleplay while working, when I am alone. Sometimes yes, but most of the time I do not

[Kevin Lightdot]

than nearly every player is a powergamer...

signed


as it was already said, powergaming is doing certain actions for skillgaining again and again, if
a) they do not fit the char
b) other chars' rp is ignored during "working", if someone else is present
c) messages like "you need to rest", "you cannot concentrate anymore" are ignored constantly and several times


and no, I do not always roleplay while working, when I am alone. Sometimes yes, but most of the time I do not

And what does not fit the char?
A character could want to train a lot in something and try to parry off Gobiath's huge mosquitos to train and stuff.

b, I agree.

c. Depends in diffirent cases I think.
You can do things to get to a goal, if you have to write 100 papers for your boss, you made 90 but then can not concentrate anymore with the papers due in an hour, would you always have to stop?
If a crafter wants to make x of a certain amount of items to sell, he can do that. Though perhaps it should be made so that once you reach skillcap crafting times increase.

Of course when you make insane amounts of items it wouldn't really be that good either, 1000 shortswords is a bit insane.

[Arien Edhel]

Nobody said you have to stop your work after 15 minutes. Nobody said that you have to stop your work if you got the message 'You need a rest' and nobody said that you shouldn't skill.

But what is wrong if you emote things like: '#me sweats', '#me eats an apple during a short rest', '#me takes a satisfied look at the fat pig' before killing them or talk to the trees if you play an elven by example?

[Juniper Onyx]

Powergaming is doing the same action for a space of time (~10 to 15 minutes) without a break or roleplay.

I agree with this answer. Every player works, however very few work this long. Most actions take less than this to do. Even the most complicated, multistage piece of armor doesn't take 15 minutes to do.

Think about it, if you have 15 minutes worth of something at the same spot, without stopping to get more materials, food or water, it really is too much. It's possible to do, I'm not saying that, but if you had prepared to work that long at one task without a break or emote, then it's intentional.

If you have to spend that long a time in one place, at least stop, stretch your legs, wipe your brow or at least emote something. You never know who may be walking by, looking for someone to RP with. It's hard enough finding players.

I'm not saying you can't spend two hours making Dough, or cutting trees, but usually it requires walking back to a depot to drop off or getting food in between. In my opinion, although it is a good idea, taking a Cow to mine sand or clay or whatever, is kinda abusing the engine. Cows were meant for 'transport' between towns, not glorified 'portable' depots! It borders the line between using the system, and fair RP.

Finding 'creative' ways of abusing the engine always happens, and always it forces questions like this. When the Temple would use their blackstones to disappear after killing people in town, every cried "Not Fair"!. When Mages would teleport people through 'windows', everyone cried "Not Fair". When anyone could learn 'Elvish', people cried "Not Fair". When people regularly killed Stone Gollems while behind a Hedge, everyone cried "Not Fair". In all these instances, the GM's had to step in and made rules against it, or eliminated the ability to do it. And I'm saying that when more people use Cows to mine and lumberjack, people will also say "Not Fair". Use cows as they were intended please. The rest of us would like to use them for transport, as they were intended to be.

Don't anger the Nitters please.

[Lance Thunnigan]

How many damn PGing threads do we need?
I think we've all established it's doing a particular still with little to no RP, just to cap.

...Seriously.

[Noradur]

When the Temple would use their blackstones to disappear after killing people in town, every cried "Not Fair"!.

Is not fair IMHO, but we had that discussion quite alot.

Powergaming is:

15 minutes without any emote ( if you are too lazy to type, log the f.uck out)
AFKing near a spawn point to wait for the skill cap to disappear (log the f.uck out)
Duelling without a particulair reason (training is acceptable though. But in my oppinion, if i am not that strong yet, i'd need some trust in the people i do a sparing with. And in my oppinion, nobody would walk up on a random person and say: E-e-ey lets Duell, ugh ugh (sorry matt, i didn't meant you) But hey thats just my oppinion and not against the rules)

So much about fighting..

About crafting.. I think powergaming about crafting would be a
cooking smith who's hobbies are tailoring, lumberjacking, carpentry, and is a student on the magic academy while his application for the knighthood has just been posted..
Specialize your characters..

Nory's two cents

[Retlak]

And in my oppinion, nobody would walk up on a random person and say: E-e-ey lets Duell, ugh ugh (sorry matt, i didn't meant you) But hey thats just my oppinion and not against the rules)

LMAO

I love my duels!

Everyone powergames at something, but who gives a shit really. they roleplay at some point.

[Korm Kormsen]

well, most seem to agree, that if one throws in a "#me spits in the hands and goes on working", everything is fine.

that would solve my problems, because i would not like to miss the lone working sessions.
i don't know, how others feel about this, but i simply can't go on working, when other players are around.
me hits a stone, me burns his fingers, me lets fall the bottle, me fishes for the shovel, and what messages more demand attention. not to mention the constant demand for food.
if i am concentrating on what another char (or more than one) is saying and doing, am typing the answers, and try not to be too dull, there simply is not enough time and concentration left to craft.

---------

edit:

but who gives a shit really.

i do. that's, why i made this thread.

[Julius]

Power gaming is more of, waiting until you cap, and then going to wait somewhere to uncap and wait until you cap again.

[Noradur]

smart one.. really..

[Julius]

Crap, I didn't read the thread.

[Beldir]

Is it powergaming when you train a skill for more than 15 minutes, but you would stop every moment if sb comes to rp (Without going somewhere, where surely no other person comes)?

[Noradur]

again, my dear beldir.. You can train a skill longer than 15 minutes.. as long as you do emote now and then like '#me sweats' '#me breathes heavily' no matter if you are alone or not.

When somebody comes by, you have to react anyway.

[pharse]

official staff announcement?

You can train a skill longer than 15 minutes.. as long as you do emote now and then like '#me sweats' '#me breathes heavily' no matter if you are alone or not.

[Noradur]

COnsider it so.. but i ain't signing shit, i dont even read any contracts..

[pharse]

Anyway, seems random and ridiculous to me. But if it is required, I resign myself to it.

[Retlak]

I'm sure GM's catch me doing random #me's alone anyway.

I only do them because encase GM's are here (often for me XD)

[Werner von Mintraching]

Gut, dann werd ich ein paar Emotes einbauen wenn weit und breit nix und niemand zu sehen ist, wiederspricht zwar meinem tiefsten innersten, weil es doch recht eigenartig ist mit sich selbst zu kommunizieren und nix anderes sind Emotes eben für mich aber wenns der Schönheit dient.......
aber verstehen tu ichs echt nicht verzeiht meinen zu geringen IQ für sowas.

[Arien Edhel]

I only do them because encase GM's are here (often for me XD)

Nothing to be proud of.

Question is answered, before spam and flaming starts:

- Closed -

[Noradur]

(translation below:)

Danke Nitram das du mir nochmal erlaubtest ein Final Statement zu der Sache zu machen.

Lieber Werner, Pharse,
Vergeßt nicht, dies hier ist ein Rollenspiel. Was Engine ist, ist reines OOC-Terrain. Dein Character weiß nicht das er grade den Skillcap erreicht hat, dein Character weiß nicht genau wie viel er dazu gelernt hat, wie viel swirlies er hatte, wie lange er sich rlzeitig ausruhen muss damit der Skillcap vollständig verschwunden ist und er weiß auch nicht das ihn im Wald grade keiner hören kann weil kaum einer online ist, oder wie auch immer, es sei den ner ist wircklich an einem abgelegenen Ort, und selbst dann kann er es nur vermuten. Hörst du dich aufeinmal auf zu bewegen wenn du allein bist? Gefriert deine Mimik und musst du nicht mehr schwitzen wenn du allein gewichte hebst?
Für den Character ist es:
Er Trainiert, wer strengt sich an, er wird erschöpft, er ruht sich aus, er wird wieder fit. Alles was man als Rollenspieler in diesen Rollenspiel also spielen sollte um seine Rolle passend zu diesem ROllenspiel zu spielen ist:
Bleibt auch während des Trainings, auch wenn niemand da ist in eurer Rolle und spielt genau diesen Vorgang aus, vom training über erschöpfung und pause bishin zur zur erholung und eventueller wiederaufnahme des Training. Kurzum ROllenspiel.

Zum anderen, seht es mal so. Ihr helft somit dem Staff ein wenig die Powergamer von den Rollenspielern zu unterscheiden.
Und mal all minuten ein #me zu schreiben das nur aus 2 3 wörtern besteht kan ndoch nciht wircklich eine große bürde für unsere tapferen spieler sein oder?

__________________

THanks Nitram, that you opened the topic again to make some final statement to this.

Dear Pharse, Werner,
dont forget, this is a Roleplaying Game. The engine is pure OOC Area. Your Character doesn't know if he has a skillcap, your character does not now exactly how much he learned, how much swirlies he had, how much time it takes to make the skillcap disappear and he certainly doesn't know if he's alone in the woods and nobody can hear'hem. Do you stop moving when you are alone? Does your mimics freeze, or dont you sweat anymore when you do your weightlifting alone?
For your character its like:
He trains, he strains, he becomes exhausted, he rests, he becomes fit again. So everything a roleplayer in this roleplaying game needs to roleplay to fit in his own role in this roleplaying game is:
Stay in your role, while training, too- Even if there is nobody there and roleplay exactly the mentioned procces. Starting at training over exhausting and a break untill rest and eventual continuing of the training. Short: Roleplay.

On the other hand, look on things from a different angle. You help the staff a bit to make the difference between a powergame and a roleplayer.
And to make a #me of 2 or 3 words every couple minutes cant be a that heavy burden for our valiant Roleplayer, is it?