Preview and stuff (OOC Feedback topic)

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:48 am

Dantagon Marescot wrote:Christianity is bais, that is why.

That wasn't his point. You don't find Muslims in Synagogs or Jews in Mosques, or Christians in Buddhist temples in the Himilayas. They all have different views of what truth even is! I mean, seriously, why would you build a temple to represent Gods that hate eachother from a logical perspective? Just a building without any particular significance is what you'll get.

Bellringer · Post by **Bellringer** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:17 pm

Anyone that attends a "unitarian church" is not a true follower of their religion...most religions are mutually exclusive. However, this temple wont be dedicated to one religion, or to one side of the coin, so anyone can worship there. The temple is neutral.

Gwendolin Cad'ell · Post by **Gwendolin Cad'ell** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:12 pm

Gro'bul wrote:
Dantagon Marescot wrote:Christianity is bais, that is why.
That wasn't his point. You don't find Muslims in Synagogs or Jews in Mosques, or Christians in Buddhist temples in the Himilayas. They all have different views of what truth even is! I mean, seriously, why would you build a temple to represent Gods that hate eachother from a logical perspective? Just a building without any particular significance is what you'll get.

No, no. You can't compare that at all, Gro'bul.

Someone who is a christian, a muslim or a jew won't go into different 'temples', 'churches' because they have different believes. But they are "one-god-religions".
Illarion doesn't have a "one-god-religion". No one (or barely anyone) in our Illarion world will say: "Malachin exists and no other god does!"
In Illarion all people (or most of them) are aware that there ARE 16 gods. And there are people who pray to just one of them, or two maybe two, or maybe all of them. Again, you can't compare Illarion religion to christianity or whatever.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:38 pm

I believe the point wasn't exactly expressed well in Gro'bul's analogy, but the God's do represent certain things, and even if a character does believe in one of them, doesn't mean you agree/like/wish to worship in the same temple as a moshran/malachin/cherga/sirani/whatever would.

Now, that's the MAIN point that was expressed by the opposing side. However, it doesn't mean a temple devoted to all Gods can't be built ingame, there isn't anything restricting it. Many people just might not wish to step foot in it or look down on it, which is fine with me.

May create more of a religious conflict.

Daerbert Hoggle · Post by **Daerbert Hoggle** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:58 pm

Not sure if this point has been made but trolls bane is basically multi-cultural. Because of this, why not have a temple for all religeons. It is good for rp. New characters go to thank their god for a safe journey etc. Also good rp from current players with philosophical and religeous debates etc...can't wait!

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:07 pm

An "un-bloody moshran-temple" ? Are you nuts ?
An "un-bloody blood god temple" ?
Guys, Moshran IS called "the blood god". It's the god of rage, destruction, war, deadly (and blind) revenge, manslaughter, all stuff like that.

If there's one thing ruining game atmosphere alot, it's "The friendly lich from the neighbourhood". Or "the glorious knighthood of cutthrpoats". Or the "PEACEFUL Moshran priest".
It's a god of WAR.
WAR <-> PEACE.
Very opposing, get it ?
Moshran = trust noone, have no friends, expect all your followers to place a dagger into your back, destroy everything that sounds weak. It's not really a concept that works for players. It's for villains. And not for anyone unfamiliar with RP, that is, if you like your account.
Praying to Moshran is illegal in every known civilisation because moshran priests HAVE to fight and kill to satisfy their god. Preferrably without thinking.
Survival of the strongest through lots of battles. And of course, provoking such battles. The more brutality and bloodshed, the happier the war-god. That doesn't fit into ANY society.
Moshran "priests" are not intended for long-time-playing cause it's their concept to somewhen collide with authorities and possibly get killed by some hero person during that.
If someone says "i pray to Moshran" and sounds serious enough with it, the only logical reaction of anyone should be "GUAAAAARDS!", not "Yeah, cool, me too".

Gosh. Stop "flowerizing" everything just because it sounds cool to be evil, and then not even play any consequences.

If you want to play a thief, a murderer, a bandit or cutthroat, we have Ronagan for that (that still involves being nice to people from your neighbourhood and most likely some honor codex too). That should be enough "against-he-law-and-be-evil-for-silly-coolness".
N00bs.

Daerbert Hoggle · Post by **Daerbert Hoggle** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:25 pm

A temple of this nature could cause a lot of good rp. For instance, moshran followers seek to detroy it's builders or the local inhabitants for what ever reason, arguments start, battle ensues and roberts your fathers brother....we have religeous war and some damn good rp to boot! As lennier said, this is an ig discussion and in my mind an ig discussion which may be fun to be part of.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:46 pm

Oh yeah, battle = good RP, thank you for the flowers.
We have possibly about 80% of characters that are "evil" just for being cool. They pray to Moshran because they don't read descriptions. I'm really sick of "i am so evil and powerful MUAHAHA let's go and cyber".
You don't know what you have to see sometimes when invisibly routine-checking players.

Logically, it shouldn't be even an option for a person with a healthy mind to pray to Moshran. Perhaps for quietly lighting a candle at a very small niche in a temple for many gods for turning away bad luck.
Praying to Moshran was thought for the really sick minds, NPCs mainly. Or temporarily for those who really hold a grudge so strong that they would blindly throw away their life to take revenge (which is also a very often-used and in the meanwhile quite boring char concept).
Bleh.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:22 pm

Rofl damien.. pwnz0rZ

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:28 pm

reading the description and the history certain chars could also feel sorry for him.seeing that he sacrificed his own life for everyone else...but yeah thats going off topic here.

HolyKnight · Post by **HolyKnight** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:03 pm

After Damien's post as he is the 411 on backgrounds I will ask that the temple only be built for alignment of quote unquote Good gods. Ronagan and Moshran should not be worshiped in the temple. Because of what Damien said and also, Ronagan worshipers pray to be able to steal from the wealthy and avoid detection from authority.

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:07 am

Damien wrote:An "un-bloody moshran-temple" ? Are you nuts ?
An "un-bloody blood god temple" ?
Guys, Moshran IS called "the blood god". It's the god of rage, destruction, war, deadly (and blind) revenge, manslaughter, all stuff like that.

If there's one thing ruining game atmosphere alot, it's "The friendly lich from the neighbourhood". Or "the glorious knighthood of cutthrpoats". Or the "PEACEFUL Moshran priest".
It's a god of WAR.
WAR <-> PEACE.
Very opposing, get it ?
Moshran = trust noone, have no friends, expect all your followers to place a dagger into your back, destroy everything that sounds weak. It's not really a concept that works for players. It's for villains. And not for anyone unfamiliar with RP, that is, if you like your account.
Praying to Moshran is illegal in every known civilisation because moshran priests HAVE to fight and kill to satisfy their god. Preferrably without thinking.
Survival of the strongest through lots of battles. And of course, provoking such battles. The more brutality and bloodshed, the happier the war-god. That doesn't fit into ANY society.
Moshran "priests" are not intended for long-time-playing cause it's their concept to somewhen collide with authorities and possibly get killed by some hero person during that.
If someone says "i pray to Moshran" and sounds serious enough with it, the only logical reaction of anyone should be "GUAAAAARDS!", not "Yeah, cool, me too".

Gosh. Stop "flowerizing" everything just because it sounds cool to be evil, and then not even play any consequences.

If you want to play a thief, a murderer, a bandit or cutthroat, we have Ronagan for that (that still involves being nice to people from your neighbourhood and most likely some honor codex too). That should be enough "against-he-law-and-be-evil-for-silly-coolness".
N00bs.

Richard Cypher · Post by **Richard Cypher** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:29 am

See, I told you all you can not have all the gods in one temple worshipped.

I would like to thank Damien for backing me up. Read moonsilver or something you nubs if you dont believe us.

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:43 am

well then. I guess I shall be getting a chance to kick certian moshran worshipers asses for fun now.

Sorry guys, looks like I get to create something only to have it desicrated. Sorry for trying.

btw, isn't this all ig stuff that should be talked about ig? So shoo.

And Richard, f-off.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:46 am

Wow..

Great attitude for some one who wants to be a gm.

Your seriously a b***h sometimes.

Btw: desecrated and certain.

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:46 am

Julius wrote:Wow..

Great attitude for some one who wants to be a gm.

Your seriously a b***h sometimes.

<_<
>_>

*You're*

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:47 am

Julius wrote:Wow..

Great attitude for some one who wants to be a gm.

Your seriously a b***h sometimes.

Btw: desecrated and certain.

>.> Gm? What the heck are you talking about? And yes, I am a bitch, get over it, and I don't care about my spelling.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:48 am

It's obvious the last sentence is true.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:49 am

The idea for the all-god temple was not originally mine, so I don't really care anyway. However the level of upset which is experienced by some here is rather amusing when considering the general (current) irrelenvance of Religion in Illarion. So instead of virtual high-fiving eachother for a job well done, maybe people here ought to focus on what exactly goes on ingame and not into what is written on the background story. Might be just me, but the background information has always been of secondary value in terms of relevance to IG matters. If the things are going like X in the game and the background says Y, screw the background.

The game is obviously ment to be played and the background story and material are reference and resource, but not some bible which we ought to adhere to. For all the what should have/would have/could have done to Moshran-worshippers by the authorities, I would like to point out that it is no longer illegal in TB and probably not in any other "mixed" town either.

The point of the all-god temple within immediate vincinity of the town is/was to act as a general billboard with big flashy lights on it, advertising Religion and providing the necessary scene for such play close to the area where the players hang around (and thus maybe drawi some people who previously have not bothered with religion at all). But whatever.

I just ask you this: What is the point of having all that fancy stuff written about gods, when the number of Servants Findari has is zero? Pretty redundant, isn't it? Lets not give the tools a bigger value than the thing we seek to achieve with those tools.

This is the planned expansion of the marketplace. Some rentable/purchaseable houses there. Any comments or suggestions?

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:49 am

Can someone please lock this topic. It has served it's purpous.

((ANd dont' bother Julius.))

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:52 am

Keep the topic open, just remove the useless crap.

I want to keep the topic open to communicate with other players.
So if there is some moan or gripe, suggestion or comment.. this would be the place to put it. I might play a dictatorial character, but my intention is not to grief others or ruin anyone's fun. So if there is some problem, well.. I would like it to be voiced before people leave the game due to it.

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:12 am

Yes, please remove a majority of the stuff about the temple. It should never have been announced in the first place as the whole of Illarion didn't need to know about it. Nothing was final and it was all a whole ig matter that I really wish was not discussed OOC on the forums. I never intended for that to get out even though it has recently been discussed. Nothing was final, therefore nothing should have been said.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:00 am

Discussing a building in OOC that will be in a town is a good idea. When that town is the biggest one, even more so. I think it is a bit odd to fight OOC about an in game matter. Anywhoo, I like the new temple place idea. Damien's point is valid though. There would be bloodshed from the pure evil moshran followers that don't exist in game and never really have to the extent Damien described(gm/quest characters don't count). No one can even play that kind of character unless they are an uber warrior. They would be locked up or cut down fast if they tried. And believe me, I know a bit about the evil character situation in gamer rather well for the past few years. I think we are all getting worked up for nothing.

Talaena Landessi · Post by **Talaena Landessi** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:19 am

Not to mention that , reguardless of how things are in the 'mainland' of the world illarion; Gobiath has always been sorta a place where people have ran to becouse of things that happened in the mainland or in whatever made up island/continent created by the player before there was a known landmass to origionate from, so having things WAAAAY different in Gobiath doesnt seem so far fetched to me.

Rugh'toh · Post by **Rugh'toh** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:00 pm

I remember a time when people felt offended when Moshran was forbidden in the town under Samantha Meryadeles. Anyway.

Mr. Cromwell wrote: This is the planned expansion of the marketplace. Some rentable/purchaseable houses there. Any comments or suggestions?

When you built new houses you have to consider the house as a whole: Any house has a roof. Consequently you have to leave quite much free space between the houses.
In the postes screenshot, for example, the door of the new room in the south would be hidden by the other building's roof in the west.

Why isn't Lennier doing the town mapping any more btw? No offence, though he is aware of such basic stuff.

HolyKnight · Post by **HolyKnight** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:48 pm

Not if it is a flat roof Rugh'toh

Not to mention Lennier is a busy busy man I am sure he doesnt mind someone taking the initiative to do somethings on their own. Plus this is a discussion board all Crommy has to do if he wants to use a wooden roof is move the building to the west some.... the overall design looks great.

Vern Kron · Post by **Vern Kron** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:27 pm

I do not like the placement of the expansion to the shop (though I do like the idea of expanding it) you took out the graveyard there, and I believe the graves should stay, simply because it can make for some good rp'ing, a good meeting spot, where it is quiet, and it adds a nice bit of scenery, even if a bit creepy.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:12 pm

The gravestones in/around TB are more or less arbitrary... So remove them or move them to another, central location.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:32 pm

I would like to propose, PO Cromwell, to talk with me about your map-plans. Your dieas are impossible because of graphical limitations... I never will implement this on the map.

And i do not like to debate about the map in this kind here, in public. Proposals and critic is welcomed. But we do not have to discuss every building here....

If you want to make proposals in front of Trolls Bane citizens, try it ingame in front of the community or in RPG-Board like everyone other too. Please!

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:35 pm

I was fixing to say that Lenny.
There are certain things that will not work right IG if you build them incorrectly with the mapeditor.