The 'Democracy' topic...

[Gwendolin Cad'ell]

I must say that the past weeks I keep feeling offended every time the democracy-topic is being brought up and people picking on others roleplay, because they are playing a character that has a more democratic view than other chars.

You people make it sound like it is not conform with the background, which isn’t necessarily true. Salkamar for example is a part of the official Illarion background. And Salkamar isn’t even a democracy. It’s more like constitutional monarchy, but still the folk is listened to and according to the Illarion background it is working very well too.
So… (sorry for the cursing) when I want to play a bloody char from Salkameria, then I’m doing so.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Edwards ‘dictarship’, and every char that is playing some thing shady, not common. And I would want to see more of that.
I just don’t want to feel discriminated because of the char that I’m playing. I have played corrupt chars; shady chars. So it would be nice not to throw all players who are playing something ‘ordinary’ or ‘righteous’ in one pot and above all pick upon them or on their roleplay, why thank you….

[pharse]

I don't think that it is the democratical attitude of the chars itself, it is rather the large amount of those chars (and I really don't think that they all come from Salkamar).
I believe nobody wants all chars to change immediately, especially if the chars background is suitable. So I understand it as an appeal to players who want to create a new char to bring some different points of view IG.

[Korm Kormsen]

isn't the title wrong?
mustn't it be "democrazy"??
(sorry, could not resist)

--

a souvereign listening to the people, is a good monarchy or a benign dictatorship, but not a democracy.

if we play expressing and living modern ideas, in my point of view, we just kill any atmosphere of medievel or fantasy origin.

life is cheap on gobaith. nothing of equal rights for everybody. nothing of "we are all alike, so we are all equal".

just imagine, the devs would play along in this direction...

"mummies on strike, because they demand to get 'former human's rights' enabled! - they don't want to be denied their right to zombieness."

"please don't hurt our resident killer-drow! he had a bad youth!"

[Llama]

We are playing too modernly, as korm said. Salkmaer MAY have democracy, but how do we know what kind it is? Greeks had democracy as well, but women, slaves and men under 21 (I think) weren't given the vote.

Assuming also, that the character KNOWS about Salkmar...

Just because a country has one thing, doesn't mean it has the be the RULE of all other cities. Some countries (today), have free education, others don't, others to a certain level only... Just because its viewed as 'good' doesn't mean everyone has it.

In my opinion, IF the governer decides on a democracy, it should be seen as a 'bonus', not as a rule. Taking silas' rule of trollsbane - the whole "We want to vote, we don't like you" thing was totally stupid in my opinion. Had that really happened in real life, half the people would be in the middle of the town square hanging by their entrails, as an example to anyone ELSE who wants to complain.

I hereby finish my post with a quote from monty python (I think), which I beleive fits well.

"YOU'RE the King? Well I didn't vote for you..."

[Cuthalion]

We are playing too modernly, as korm said. Salkmaer MAY have democracy, but how do we know what kind it is? Greeks had democracy as well, but women, slaves and men under 21 (I think) weren't given the vote.

Assuming also, that the character KNOWS about Salkmar...

Just because a country has one thing, doesn't mean it has the be the RULE of all other cities. Some countries (today), have free education, others don't, others to a certain level only... Just because its viewed as 'good' doesn't mean everyone has it.

In my opinion, IF the governer decides on a democracy, it should be seen as a 'bonus', not as a rule. Taking silas' rule of trollsbane - the whole "We want to vote, we don't like you" thing was totally stupid in my opinion. Had that really happened in real life, half the people would be in the middle of the town square hanging by their entrails, as an example to anyone ELSE who wants to complain.

I hereby finish my post with a quote from monty python (I think), which I beleive fits well.

"YOU'RE the King? Well I didn't vote for you..."

Word.

[Fooser]

I must say that the past weeks I keep feeling offended every time the democracy-topic is being brought up and people picking on others roleplay, because they are playing a character that has a more democratic view than other chars.

Yeah, elitists tend to do that, not only are they responsible for their roleplay, but everyone else's as well, to the point of nit picking over crap and every little thing they disagree with.

What's funny is that the people saying this is ruining the atmosphere for them are also basically ignoring Salkameria and Gobaith's history, two things that are actually part of the game world, and would rather replace it with "well if this happened in real life." Democracy is, and has been, a component in the governments of Greenbriar and Trolls Bane, and even the Elven elders were chosen by vote at one point.

And the thing with Silas wasn't really whining about Democracy that much. He was perceived as an outsider. Numerous other characters have declared leadership in TB in a totalitarian manner, and did not get such a reaction because they were seen as insiders.

[Julius]

We are playing too modernly, as korm said. Salkmaer MAY have democracy, but how do we know what kind it is? Greeks had democracy as well, but women, slaves and men under 21 (I think) weren't given the vote.

If I am not mistaken (I don't follow elections that well here in America) the age limit for voting is 21.

[Dantagon Marescot]

Obivously not as the voting age is 18 and over.

[Lrmy]

We are playing too modernly, as korm said. Salkmaer MAY have democracy, but how do we know what kind it is? Greeks had democracy as well, but women, slaves and men under 21 (I think) weren't given the vote.

Assuming also, that the character KNOWS about Salkmar...

Just because a country has one thing, doesn't mean it has the be the RULE of all other cities. Some countries (today), have free education, others don't, others to a certain level only... Just because its viewed as 'good' doesn't mean everyone has it.

In my opinion, IF the governer decides on a democracy, it should be seen as a 'bonus', not as a rule. Taking silas' rule of trollsbane - the whole "We want to vote, we don't like you" thing was totally stupid in my opinion. Had that really happened in real life, half the people would be in the middle of the town square hanging by their entrails, as an example to anyone ELSE who wants to complain.

I hereby finish my post with a quote from monty python (I think), which I beleive fits well.

"YOU'RE the King? Well I didn't vote for you..."

Props to you homes.

I really don't think so many people are pro-democracy in game as some people are making it sound. Most of the non-democratic thinking players tend to ignore the democratic discussions that litter our (in game) forums.

We obviously all need to get out of a modern mindset. Remember that it is not - "How would I react?" it is "How would my character react?"

[Lance Thunnigan]

We are playing too modernly, as korm said. Salkmaer MAY have democracy, but how do we know what kind it is? Greeks had democracy as well, but women, slaves and men under 21 (I think) weren't given the vote.

If I am not mistaken (I don't follow elections that well here in America) the age limit for voting is 21.

18.

[Julius]

okay, still pretty close.

[Achae Eanstray]

Remember that it is not - "How would I react?" it is "How would my character react?"

I agree, and a char in medieval times.

[Elhrímnir]

Not my point of view, just to clearify: Ancient Greece had a form of Democracy.

But on the other hand, who doesent love the absolutism and glory of a godly chosen monarchy

[Korm Kormsen]

Ancient Greece had a form of Democracy.

a form of.... - is just the right expression!
ancient greek states had a lot of slaves, plus the rural poblation without rights.
those who participated in the famous democracy were a wealthy minority of noble families.

so "oligarchy" would be the more fitting word.

[Miklorius]

If there is no power/forces backing up a dictator, you do not have to fear in being openly against him. And because there are not much large groups in Illa, you can not really set up a real dictatorship where the most characters/POs are kind of too frightenend to ask for democracy.
Well, the Calum Alliance were in position trying to establish a dictatorship but they didn't.

[Minjok]

could it be, the history of gobaith causes that an spreaded sense of democracy?

the history tells about first settlers on gobaith, which seem to had democratic-like aims to me ...

[Estralis Seborian]

I think you are focussing too much on the term "democracy". I assume this might be one of the reasons for the original poster to start this thread. As it seems, some things are mixed up. What can be criticized is that many characters seem to have moral standards that are influenced by the Age of Enlightenment and the flower power generation. There is nothing wrong in playing a char who believes in slaves having the same rights as a king or that women have some rights, too - as long as your character is based on such maybe uncommon moral aspects and stands up for it.

As the thread starter mentioned, some Illarion realms have rather "modern" standards. Other don't, like Albar or Gynk. So, when you make up a background of your character, think about what has influenced him or her. What is a bit sad is that many players tend to do persona play, meaning, they play themselves in Illarion. This is the default for players that are new to roleplaying games, so don't mock newbies for this. But those who think they are 1337, play good examples (like the barbarians of the nordmark) instead of complaining about others.