Trolls Bane - GM ruled?

[Salathe]

please dont bring back another lyrenzia

cuz thats where this is heading!

[Scott Macleod]

How about we start nominating for the next Governor again.

That way, when this Government fails, we can be ahead of the game and just put in the next one, eh?

LOL

How long we gonna have to replace PO Governments?
I'm for a GM controlled Trollsbane.

[Fooser]

I think Nordmark, Varshikar, Greenbriar, Caelum, and Vanima need GM rulers too.

[AlexRose]

Caelum

Not on your life LMAO

[Miklorius]

Yeah, stop spamming and complaining (about details) and come up with good and realistic ideas...

[Fooser]

Caelum

Not on your life LMAO

Why not? They would be able to keep all those noobs in line over there

[AlexRose]

They'd probably also stick houses all over there out of nowhere

But that's not the point . I likes teh powa.

[nmaguire]

They'd probably also stick houses all over there out of nowhere

But that's not the point . I likes teh powa.

"Ahahaha you can't come into my big building with a table in it?"

[Quinasa]

It's not so far-fetched to imagine guards that are actually online and patrol the town. When I first started playing there were guards in TrollsBane and I thought it worked perfectly. You just have to find characters who are willing, the right kind of characters.

I think there are not enough Hagen von Rabenfelds in the universe.

[Gwendolin Cad'ell]

I think there are not enough Hagen von Rabenfelds in the universe.

/signed
^^

[Mr. Cromwell]

How about we start nominating for the next Governor again.

That way, when this Government fails, we can be ahead of the game and just put in the next one, eh?

LOL

How long we gonna have to replace PO Governments?
I'm for a GM controlled Trollsbane.

Well, you leave from the assumption that there would be elections. Noob.

Needless to say, it is completely wrong approach to the situation.

[Scott Macleod]

How about we start nominating for the next Governor again.

That way, when this Government fails, we can be ahead of the game and just put in the next one, eh?

LOL

How long we gonna have to replace PO Governments?
I'm for a GM controlled Trollsbane.

Well, you leave from the assumption that there would be elections. Noob.

Needless to say, it is completely wrong approach to the situation.

Oh, that's good. Call me names. You don't even know how long I have been playing. I've seen many governor's come and go.

You've missed my points during this post and now you threaten a dictatorship?

All I see is another PO, thinking they can fix things, and will be replaced with something else in six months or less. More chaos, and no closer to solving the problems. You have just validated my argument why a GM controlled Government would be better.

*May we close this topic now until better heads prevail to discuss this problem?*

[Mr. Cromwell]

I've validated nothing. That's all you see. You might be correct, but then again, it would be fair to get the benefit of doubt. "Threaten a dictatorship"? All I have seen here from you is been GM-rule-fanboyism to the max and (see the "you have validated" part for further reference about that) direct dismissal of any possibility of player-ruled town having chance of being successful. I'm not saying that it will be easy, hell no. Especially since everyone and their grandmothers are trying to claim a piece of TB.

As for the namecalling, that wasn't the intention. The second sentence was added as an afterthought so the position of the was changed.. a little.

And still, for me a toppable dictatorship (regardless of how sloppy or inefficient) is better than a dictatorship which cannot be removed by any means at all. GMs are no gods who stay active forever and as an old time player you should definately know that. A GM-played monarch will give long and consistent storyline only when he/she is played by the same person. If the GM, for one reason or another, falls inactive.. Then chances are that the one taking over will be in the same as any PC beginner-monarch, only equipped with powers to *make* everyone bend into his will. Order in one town should not be gained by force-feeding something down everyone's collective throats. Each town has had their quiet periods as well, so.. Why not every town? Just to "keep the athmosphere up".

Am I the only one in this game who actually wants the gamemasters to be less and less involved with the actual running of the show, and rather provide the basic services and half-time entertainment?

[Nitram]

Where is your declaration?

*readies his gm power abuse army to take over TB and rule it forevaaaa*

[Mr. Cromwell]

Dantagon cybers with someone, don't blame me.

I would be happy to make the declaration, but.. well, this is what depending on other PCs is all about. Waiting for one side to get their shit together.

[Scott Macleod]

.....well, this is what depending on other PCs is all about. Waiting for one side to get their shit together.

Hmm...and why are PO governments better again?.......

Keep talking, this is great stuff! I'll use it against you next time we have to talk about this in oh....3-4 months.

[Fooser]

Guilds fall inactive and change a lot too, I think we need GM's to take over that too, along with all the other towns, and it took me all the time from the moment Illarion was created to figure this out, because it's never been done up to this point.

[Mr. Cromwell]

I'm sorry to rain on your parade.. But well, thats really the same with any GM-government.

Unless, we take the human-factor entirely out and make the Eliza the GM-king of TB.

[Frederick D'Aubigne]

Give it a try I say..
As long as the GM is perfectly able of both the English and the German language..

[Quinasa]

I think there are not enough Hagen von Rabenfelds in the universe.

/signed
^^

Is this the wrong place to say he's missed?

I'll also add that I don't care what happens, I've given my opinion and until the game becomes unfun I will still play, whether GMs or players control the government!

[Retlak]

Let's just create a NPC or something as a King, and everyone lives as normal but dissable ctrl clicking in Trolls bane.

[Richard Cypher]

Hey whenever I have guard characters they are always in Trollsbane all the time, and patrol constantly. I spend the majority of my spare time playing Illarion so thats a lot of guarding. Then every time I am a guard, someone pwns Trollsbane and the system shifts again. I am thinking screw this, I am just gone to overthrow Trollsbane with me and my uber group of PGers. Then we set one of them as leader, and hey ho look at that, Trollsbane has an uber unstoppable PGer populated government. Just try and take us out.

[Lrmy]

Hey whenever I have guard characters they are always in Trollsbane all the time, and patrol constantly. I spend the majority of my spare time playing Illarion so thats a lot of guarding. Then every time I am a guard, someone pwns Trollsbane and the system shifts again. I am thinking screw this, I am just gone to overthrow Trollsbane with me and my uber group of PGers. Then we set one of them as leader, and hey ho look at that, Trollsbane has an uber unstoppable PGer populated government. Just try and take us out.

DON"T TELL THEM THE PLANZ!

I wanted to comment on the !jail command, or whatever it would be. You want to basically eliminate crime in Troll's Bane. This is a bad idea. This idea also has little RP value. "Oh geese he killed some one?" "Yup, hold on...I'll jail him with my ((command) because he is to strong/out of our view." "Ok, just hurry so he can't log out."

NPC guards? Ok, if they are killable. With those no one could come in town that was banned ever. Another horrible idea. That is banning a character from being able to RP with 95% of the people in game. If there are no guards in Troll's Bane, I will pretend there are no guards in Troll's Bane. If my character does not need to fear what is there, he will not. I for one don't know what all this rubbish is about bad guys logging in when all the good guys leave.... Maybe it is this way because there were less American town guards under Siltairs, so when the bad guys played by Americans logged in, no one was ever there. We aren't going to not RP because there could be"invisible people" running around Troll's Bane half the time we are on...

[ogerawa]

Regarding the !jail command, can restrict them only if the criminal's health is 0 i guess. So the guards will have to beat the criminal first before the criminal gets jailed and ressurect when the command is invoked along with the penalty. Just a thought....

[Lrmy]

Regarding the !jail command, can restrict them only if the criminal's health is 0 i guess. So the guards will have to beat the criminal first before the criminal gets jailed and ressurect when the command is invoked along with the penalty. Just a thought....

I think that is a good idea....

[Quinasa]

I think it's a bad idea. It promotes guards (or "guards" if you will) beating people up, and it's a great excuse to PK and get some skill while looking like the good guy! So how about... no.

[Dantagon Marescot]

Dantagon cybers with someone, don't blame me.

I would be happy to make the declaration, but.. well, this is what depending on other PCs is all about. Waiting for one side to get their shit together.

Stop lying, you know you enjoy it!

And yeah, dec. is signed and everything will fall apart soon. I promise

[Siltaris]

It makes me feel happy that there are people who think in a similar way about the current IG situation and the major problems Illarion suffers from.

To those who have not seen the points yet, here are some comments to various statements.
I ask people to discuss in a good way and to try to understand the 'opposite' side.


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Any new government will fail for sure?
lol. Aint you a soothsayer?

I have backed my statement with arguments, here highlighted for you:
“However, since I know that it is loads of work to set up a working government and to keep that government working, and regarding my impression that the current candidates for the government in TB hardly do have the time to do so (due to their little IG-time and little forum activity), as well as due to the fact that there still is the same playerbase - which is not willing/able to be part of a town/guild - any new government will fail for sure!”

The point here is, that the guard is not expected to "protect and serve" everyone. It also opens up much more options for bribery, "dishonest" guards and whatever. No longer a guard has to be nice to everyone and be the shining beacon of virtue. In some cases he can abuse people, tell the "unworthy" victims to get lost without risking any punishment for his part. The joy! Let us diversify the guard!

Indeed, an interesting approach to govern the town.
Your plan in other words (as I have understood it up to now):
Accept the status quo of a chaotic town being in anarchy and make that official. Backed by criminals who play guard. Backed by a governor whose vision is completely unclear.

If that is what a town should be – you will achieve what you want.
However, from logic IG perspective it will drop TBs position as largest merchant town over time, as someone has stated here before. (Due to: unreliable authority; less customers; less visitors; merchants might leave)
Get along with the ig consequences then, please.


~ ~ ~

It was your fault that Caelum had to invade. If Siltaris hadn't attacked Dom for no reason, apart from he had just come out of the teleporter and said "It's a nice day" [...]

It makes little sense to discuss what the ultimate reason was for the invasion. Perhaps Evan’s lie? Perhaps your blackmail? Perhaps your livelong ban? It makes no sense to try to discuss about that. Fact is: Some of you have invaded the town. And with you it is not just Caelum, but some other chars who are not citizens of Caelum.

However, why did Siltaris attack Dom? For no reason? For sure not!
You can read resons either here: The path into oblivion
Summrized for you: Dominic as well as some of the other chars who approached were banned from territory of TB before. You broke law by using TB’s teleporter. Furthermore you have blocked Siltaris’ way three times.

[...] AND used the fact that the server had crashed to bring in reinforcements, no army would have attacked. We were going to wait until Siltaris had won the election, but since it became kill or get killed, the "kill" option was chosen, and since there were witnesses Caelum was forced into an attack too early.

Don’t understand why your reinforcements should be a reason for an attack.
If you are talking about those who passed by and helped Siltaris in the very end: That was complete fortuity.

Apart from that, the attackers chose to come back to cloud her for no reason. After you were not able to defeat her 4 on 1, but hardly injured her, you chose to flee, drink potions and come back to cloud a char who already roleplayed laying on the ground and didn't nor was able to attack you any more. I wonder why you did that. However, it is not important any more.

At the evening of the invasion you hardly had any idea that I would play Siltaris as being killed. On the contrary, invaders have already stated that they hoped to see Siltaris on the battle field. So, please, do not bring false facts here.
Anyway, it makes no sense to talk about her death any more. It is past.


~ ~ ~


I sincerely ask Players to discuss here in a reasonable way. Comments like:

Make me and fooser a gm, problem solved. Then the town will be run by a gm.

I think Nordmark, Varshikar, Greenbriar, Caelum, and Vanima need GM rulers too.

I vote YAY!
GM rule = teh win.

Not on your life LMAO

...do not help this discussion at all nor do they show that these players have any true interest in this discussion.


~ ~ ~

Either GM-rule or remove the tax money, since in my opinion the governor position can be easily misused/abused for personal gain (i'm not saying anyone is doing it though).

True, the large amount of money can be easily abused. Having the opportunity to decide over all this money makes it necessary that the one has an idea of both, IG and OOC view on the balance of the game.


~ ~ ~

As also mentioned, the long term thinking is completely missing in the heads of many PO's. The result is what we have now in Trolls Bane: no governemnt, most characters going their own way, not much atmosphere, a lot of criminals, no storyline, no history.

Full agreement.
Unfortunately, there is complete lack of overall atmosphere IG at the moment, IMHO.


~ ~ ~

Siltaris, your post was very....pro Siltaris.

So it seems you have read all then. Makes me feel happy. Two comments:
- “Needless to say: This is my point of view. Others might have had another impression.”
- I just wrote what Siltaris actually did.

You neglected to mention the temple, the fact that people(my chars included) easily walked into town and could do whatever they wanted and have little to no fear of the law.

The temple was one group of playes next to others. I cannot mention all groups who acted in TB.
Apart form that, I actually did think of the Temple in my posting:
“At the beginning of her regency she pushed the most important criminals back with the help of Callith and Samantha” and
“I have looked for characters who would fit into the government to support. I have found no one. Either out of IG-reasons (bad guys)” and
“Though it never is possible to push back crime completely in town. But I think that under Siltaris there were long times of stable and quite safe living in town”

True, you were able to do what you wanted in town, since we live in different time zones we did not meet each other that much ig. Furthermore, the town guards were too inactive and not strong enough to stand against you and many criminals.
When I met some of those criminals (temple or not temple, who cares), I often tried to jail them. Though, most of those chose to flee, since they would have lost in a duel. (Fleeing is easy, due to overall speed of all chars)
This behaviour strongly indicates that players seem to have little sense for any powerful authority IG. Even when there is someone who stand for justice in town, some of these players prefer to flee so they do not get punished for what they have done IG.

Some people hate the style of government you instated.

Would you describe that style, please, so I do not need to think of it about by myself?

You seem to not be able to tell the difference between OOC and IC (at least in this situation). Need I bring up the seahorse BS??? (Small flames intended.)

“This situation” – is it my posting you are talking about?
If so, let me explain you something:
Being governor of a town and having quite some IG powers it it imperative that the PO thinks about the actions of his/her char. What consequences would a particular action have on IG balance? What kind of action is reasonable from my char’s point of view? What kind of affair is most pressing and needs to be dealt with, since time of PO is limited?
So, yes, as Governor I often thought about Siltaris actions from OOC view.
Though, what I never did was to mix some OOC-thoughts in an unreasonable way with IG.

Are you talking about the Seahorse testament?
Well, this was an outcome of thinking about game balancing in OOC way.
The question was: Should a dozen of players, who have decided in short-term to invade a town without asking any affected person before, a bunch of people who left the new governor alone afterwards, players who obviously wanted a change IG – should those players get all the benefits of the governor for free and without any more efforts than making a bad planned invasion?

If it would be the case, soon there would have been new players who would make the new government fall again, just to get the goldcoins and some buildings.

So, with this testament I gave invaders a challenge. They should prove that they can get along with such (compared to other tasks a governor has to do) minor challenge.
If the invaders would have followed their storyline in a consequent way, this testament would have been nothing but a small stone on the road to the power. But since the whole invasion was bad roleplayed and nobody thought about what comes after invasion, you stumbled over this pebble.

Like Rosendil and others have stated:
“As also mentioned, the long term thinking is completely missing in the heads of many PO's.”

When someone wants to be Governor, long-term thinking is imperative. And long-term thinking goes in hand with some OOC-thoughts.

No one should be able to just throw a criminal in jail because they broke a law. Even if they killed 10 characters in 1 minute. If they weren't caught, accept it. If you apprehend the law breaker or cloud them, tell them OOC they need to wait at the cross or go to jail. If they do not listen, GM them, because they can't RP.

There is a fundamental dissension in one matter: The acceptance of authorities.
If players want a certain level of organised IG-atmosphere, where someone has more rights than others (like it was in medieval and is in all fantasy worlds), players need to accept at least SOME authorities. People should have fear or at least respect authorities, e.g. town guard or the governor.
Most players have no respect.

Why?
Characters can flee any time. They need to have no fear of being clouded and/or jailed, because they can flee any time.
There are not enough powerful players of authorities who could make independent/unbounded players (criminals) any fear of dealing with the consequences of their actions.

Example: Being the murderer of an rightfully elected Governor of the largest town on Gobiath, a governor who was mostly liked by its citizens and who has good relations to other nations – killing such a character should be one of the worst things a character could do IG.
Though, since people do not care for any authority and are not willing/able to think in long-term and thus make ‘history’, Illarion will lack atmosphere.

The mentioned !jail command would support authority. Though, it is a powerful tool and could be abused for forced RP. Intelligent and mature players are needed for make use of such !jail command.
More discussions needed for this command.

[Scott Macleod]

Siltaris, Thank you for your intelligent and elaborate discussion. I have read both your postings and agree with what you have to say.

AKA Signed!

[Fooser]

...do not help this discussion at all nor do they show that these players have any true interest in this discussion.

Oh yeah you got me there. Maybe try deflating your ego and elitism for a few minutes and then try again? There's nothing to take interest in here, because in 118 posts, no one has yet to make an intelligent justification for a GM ruler only in Trolls bane.