Important : Reminder / Wichtig : Erinnerung

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:23 pm

Thorvald wrote:Let me tell you what happened to me exactly yesterday. I was talking to a player who played such a "supernatural" char. And what did I get as a reply? "Why can't I play this? PersonX is playing it as well"

I am sorry to say that that is really immature from the player's side. I just hope it was not some experienced, old illarionite. I fear this game can't really move on because of the lack of maturity.

Thorvald wrote:That's the reason why these things should be discussed with GMs before and should go with GM permission. So that there is some order, not too much power-rp, and according to the Illarion background.
Because otherwise we don't have any "normal" chars at all anymore in Illarion, but everyone is playing some possessed, supernatural, half-demon-half-vampire char with glowing eyes. (Yes I exaggerated a bit.)

It shouldn't be too hard to speak with GMs about these things before. And you should know that well.

And yes, I agree with that. But I don't agree with them being totally prohibited and banned if they are used.

Fianna Heneghan · Post by **Fianna Heneghan** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:29 pm

ogerawa wrote:I wonder what the drows were up to when they robbed the elfess in bane.

I wonder that too. That happened to my character and the rp wasn't very impressive either. I like a good robbery from time to time, but that was disappointing, especially since these characters seemed to have been meant for a more important purpose than common thievery.

Also, as a thought on half-elves, I played Fianna as being raised by an elfess and really enjoyed it. Since the elf language was taken away I have lost much of my interest in this character because her background was taken away. As far as talking with a GM about it, could that be more transparent too? The PM I wrote to a GM has been sitting in my outbox unread since the change took place. I think that was in June? It's very frustrating as a player not knowing who to talk to and feeling like the staff just don't care what I think.

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:29 pm

Damien wrote:If we allowed possession or such, every second player would play his char as possessed because it's thought to be cool.

Well, seeing as this topic hasn't popped up in quite some time,
I can already think of a few who've RP'd being possessed and have done a great job at it.

I've played possessed characters, half-elves as well.

Thorvald · Post by **Thorvald** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:38 pm

Lance Thunnigan wrote: Well, seeing as this topic hasn't popped up in quite some time,
I can already think of a few who've RP'd being possessed and have done a great job at it.

I've played possessed characters, half-elves as well.

So can I. I have also played possessed chars myself.

I would just prefer to having a rule for it because of following reason:

People should know about it *beforehand* (As long as they are reading the rules) and they know what they can expect. I was feeling sorry for that char I was talking with yesterday, because I had to ruin her fun and she didn't know about this before.

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:40 pm

I see.

Maximilian · Post by **Maximilian** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:42 pm

Meine Meinung dazu: Wenn man irgendwas "abnormales" spielen will fragt man nen GM ob es passt . Der kann dann sagen ja es passt oder nein es passt nicht.
Wenns nicht passt muss man sich damit abfinden.

Achae Eanstray · Post by **Achae Eanstray** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:57 pm

I have not seen any "bad" RP and before I knew it was against the rules of the game, I RP'd for a few days with two claiming to be vampire after I joined. It was a very exciting time and excellent RP with both chars.

I have also RP'd with a couple of chars that mine thought were possessed. I had no problems with this, nor a priest wanting to cut everyone's hair. This kind of thing simply adds to the excitement of the game.

There are many "couples" ig now, one human and one elf. The RP of the differences between them adds to the excitement ig. To claim that there can be no "half-elf or half-human", rather none further then what is already there, is IMO taking away the RP options of different chars ig (also not fair to newer players) and like abc, I can't understand the reasoning behind it. Particularly since we RP dark haired elves, pale blonde humans.... hoods on cloaks and any other number of things and place this in our description. If someone doesn't pay attention to the description but just looks at the graphics, they are not getting the full benefit of this RP'd game.

A large part of the RP ig is with our imagination, we "imagine" our char sits in a chair, hands something to another etc....... to take away part of it and say.......you can not imagine this any longer, would be interfering with what makes RP so exciting in the first place.

I would hope all, when setting out some rules, would remember that the stricter the RP allowed, the less imagination there will be, the skills may be good, but the RP will suffer due to less "atmosphere" ig.

Thorvald · Post by **Thorvald** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:10 pm

Achae Eanstray wrote: I would hope all, when setting out some rules, would remember that the stricter the RP allowed, the less imagination there will be, the skills may be good, but the RP will suffer due to less "atmosphere" ig.

I have to disagree with you on that point. If you have a current look ingame, there is already atmosphere lacking. And why? Because some players do not know how to properly play and elf, or properly play an orc or a dwarf. Hence why there are no conflicts and ergo no atmosphere. Once more what Kormson said:

We have a lot of players where you can only recognize the char by looking at it's graphic.

Everyone is democratic, everyone is humanistic.
So half breeds would be poison for the game. There would be just much more adaption.

Of course exceptions are nice, but only as long as they are rare and not become common. No one is saying: "You are never allowed to play a possessed char ever again". Instead it's just "If you want to play a possess char, speak with a gamemaster before so that he knows that's going on and can give you also advices, so that nothing goes out of hand"

(I'm clarifying things with Damien.)

Arien Edhel · Post by **Arien Edhel** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:23 pm

Pellandria wrote:Why do we have drows then.. hmm why are some player allowed to play them even if they are only questchars, they still log in and use their overpowered Chars for "normal" gaming?

They are questing to make fun FOR YOU. I wonder why there's always one who's jealous.

Jupiter wrote:ich verstehe nicht, warum es nicht möglich sein sollte, dass bei einer Elfen-Menschbezeihung ein Halbelf rauskommt.

ZB weil es keine Grafik dafür gibt.

abcfantasy · Post by **abcfantasy** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:25 pm

Arien Edhel wrote:They are questing to make fun FOR YOU. I wonder why there's always one who's jealous.

Exactly. In my opinion, Damien is preventing us from providing some fun to others, which in turn provides fun to ourselves of course.

Anyway, it seems to me that we have are are going to conclude that we should contact GMs for such special cases, in which I totally agree with.

Fin Aurelius · Post by **Fin Aurelius** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:48 pm

Also die Drow finde ich nicht sonderlich lustig...da ich finde das die ziemlich overpowered sind....

Aber ich denke die Drows, sind hier auch nicht grade wirklich das Thema..oder sollten es nicht sein, dafür könnte man nen eigenen Thread aufmachen...meine Meinung.

Arien Edhel · Post by **Arien Edhel** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:59 pm

Fin Aurelius wrote:Aber ich denke die Drows, sind hier auch nicht grade wirklich das Thema..oder sollten es nicht sein, dafür könnte man nen eigenen Thread aufmachen...meine Meinung.

Korrekt.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:01 pm

Arien Edhel wrote: They are questing to make fun FOR YOU. I wonder why there's always one who's jealous.

I have no reason to be jealous, I don't want to play a Drow, I have my own chars, but where is the fun if the Drows go ig and kill everyone on their path, because they are redicoulus overpowered, this little "private" quest was for how many people.. 4 yeah because noone could get near and change anything or you were killed.. right so much fun and joy.

Sun Long · Post by **Sun Long** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:08 pm

Jeder zieht sich den Schuh an, der ihm passt...

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:21 pm

Pellandria, they don't go around killing everyone in their path without a reason. Drows aren't blood firty orcs.

By the way, they aren't ridiculously overpowered. They have average stats and average skills. They don't start the ctrl click fights but if ctrl click noobs do then they have to retaliate.

The quest has so many drows because it is a long quest and not all of the players are on at the same time.

So far pell you haven't showed up to much of the drow scenario's atall. Funny that you should even bother speaking.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:32 pm

Yeah, thats why PO Taliss told me they basically maxed with pwnage equipment and that he beat Grivijak and Dain in a duel.

I've played a half elf for about a year now, there is no way I'm going to change my entire rp. 4 months of actual rp that I'm a half breed and then one day, #me doesn't have elf ears anymore because the gawds took them away.

Smile that.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:35 pm

Uhm i was there as you.."sacrified" isliwen or whatever you did there lets say you where in Varshikar..because noone form the outside had even the chance to come near your rp, because you either where blasted the second you showed up or where followed by some drow, so there was technicly only.. 6 peple involved who actually could writte something, because they either weren't attacked or could rest on their magic and serously.. just some drows suddendly sowing up, I only saw two drows untill now, played now and then, and attacking with huge power and the normal player chars have to deal with them?
The elf had no power to even get near you ...no player char from outside had a chance, this is what I mean, if you make some "private quest" then either make it in some hidden corner and don't involve other people, because they don't have any chance against you at all or make it fair.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:37 pm

Julius wrote:Yeah, thats why PO Taliss told me they basically maxed with pwnage equipment and that he beat Grivijak and Dain in a duel.

I've played a half elf for about a year now, there is no way I'm going to change my entire rp. 4 months of actual rp that I'm a half breed and then one day, #me doesn't have elf ears anymore because the gawds took them away.

Smile that.

One of em has pushed magic resistance, but they don't have pushed magic fo'sho, they cast on me and it was average. Also, the reason they are so good is their drow equipment, seemingly. A mage can still absolutely whip 5 of them and a mage and a decent fighter together can take the resistant drow. They're not really overpowered tbh.

Arien Edhel · Post by **Arien Edhel** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:39 pm

Fin Aurelius wrote:Aber ich denke die Drows, sind hier auch nicht grade wirklich das Thema..oder sollten es nicht sein, dafür könnte man nen eigenen Thread aufmachen...meine Meinung.

Short summary:

This is no drow topic and should be discussed at another place.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:07 pm

I can't really see what the problem is with half-elves.

In this case, the possible misuse is not an argument against proper use. Both are player races, with somewhat similiar physical properties and some already existing "halfbreed" characters. Elves and humans marry (and obviously have secks

) all the time in Illarion.

I don't know what sillyness (but it certainly is a degree of that) it is to try to make weak comparisons between half-elves and half-dragons, vampires or werewolves. If there is any problem with half-elves, then it is just the one which is present with all races, that they are played completely without any racial quirks or behaviour. If you allow half-elves (which are okay), you don't have to allow half-dragons (which are silly). If someone wants to play a half-dragon, then he should get a permit (and the necessary guidelines) for that from the staff (which the staff can and probably should refuse).

Half-elvishness/humaness is just another thing which adds some story and some 'depth' for the character when in use by an advanced player. They are not force-RP'ing with racial uberpowers or anything of the sort, at least any more than any other random group of people. The RP-police ought to keep their collective fingers off them. As for the "half-elves requiring a graphic of their own".. you know just as well as I do, Damien.. that it is complete, utter and total bollocks. We've had halflings (and others) with human graphics for how long? As well as the priviledge of them being "halfbloods" and hence looking like the side which just happens to be more dominant (that being either Elven or Human and decided by the player).

The staff ought to consider, is it really worth it to start policing yet another completely harmless aspect of the game from the ivory tower (I don't understand what Damien has against transparency, really) which will only serve to annoy most players who play such a character well? Additionally it will annoy those of us who don't play such characters, but have a certain libertarian mindset in regards to the stuff which goes on IG. (Call me an RP-Libertarian)

This time I think that the staff could take a historical action, and actually change its policy to match with the things which have been going on ingame for as long as I can remember. You don't have to officially approve them, but I think that banning half-elfness and any crackdown on half-elven characters would be ridiculous.

If you really want to do something useful in regards to half-elves, then you would make some guidelines on how to use them*. But maybe, that's just a too sane and productive thing to do.

Not every aspect of the RP has to be regulated. Give people at least some room to play their characters the way they want to do it, when it is not harming anyone except the nerves some elitist RP-police individuals.

*Like
1. Half-elves are mortals, with slightly longer lifespan than humans.
2. Half-elves generally resist the signs of aging rather well, regardless of which side of them is more dominant.

And so for.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:36 pm

Mr. Cromwell wrote: *Like
1. Half-elves are mortals, with slightly longer lifespan than humans.
2. Half-elves generally resist the signs of aging rather well, regardless of which side of them is more dominant.

And so for.

Thats exactly how I play mine.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:40 pm

The problem is not that players play half elfs to add character depth.

The main problem is : As long as people without the idea of any character RP are even unable to play an elf like an elf, playing a half elf is just another excuse to use the attributes of an elf with the behaviour of a human, thus, no "necessarity" to RP their race.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:47 pm

If noone is able play halfelves or even elves why not cut all races, set everyone back to human and thats it, because some people obviously can't rp, or why not reduce everyone to one pixel, everyone can rp a black pixel can we.

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:59 pm

Pellandria wrote:If noone is able play halfelves or even elves why not cut all races, set everyone back to human and thats it, because some people obviously can't rp, or why not reduce everyone to one pixel, everyone can rp a black pixel can we.

I'm all for it, so I won't be the only person that has to change his whole smiling rp or get banned.

Wtf..

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:26 pm

I suggest that people try to understand and accept the point of view of the staff. There is little need to try to be sarcastic.

Regarding the fact that there hardly is a handful of well-played elves and lizards around seems to be the reason why this rule is still necessary.
I don't want to start one of those "decrease of RP"-threads. Though, as long as a lot of players are not willing to reflect their RP it seems necessary to make stricter rules.

There are thousands of other chars you can play without going against these rules. If you want to go against it anyway: Communicate with the staff in a reasonable way.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:37 pm

Siltaris, whats a reasonable way, discuss, indeed and who said there will be no more..well..look its Damien and do you really want every race played strictly after the moonsilver rules, well then we would have much kinder Elves, not those snobby arrogant Elves, like some people think would fit to them, elves have an nearly unlimit time, they should be calm, wait.. and yes see that widsome still lurks under everys race shell instead of shutting themself in Tol Vanima.
How should you really play a race according to the rules, if noone shows you "how it is done"?

This decissions is only there because ONE (!) player made a failure and then Damien is like "Well this one player made this mistake...I guess this is the best player in Illarion...everyone else plays crappy..lets enforce some old rule!". You really want everyone else to just take it without comment?

Arien Edhel · Post by **Arien Edhel** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:42 pm

Wrong.
We don't make us such a work for only one player. Believe me, you really don't know what happens all around.
But a GM like Damien does.

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:58 pm

Illarion is a fantasy world with a background. Although this background is not very accessible - I vote for a short, comprehensive overview about world, races and history -, it is still there.

If the background says, this and that simply does not exist in Illarion, it simply doesn't!
If some say "Hey, this is more fun for the players", I respnd: I hate vampirish-demon-possessed-dragon-daughter-stuff. IMO it sucks (I don't wanna offend such POs)! Usually I am forced to follow that storylines although they are not fitting to the official background.

Half-Elves and such "smaller things" are not such a big deal for me personally, simply because:

Korm Kormsen wrote:We have a lot of players where you can only recognize the char by looking at it's graphic. [...]

Damien wrote:[...] The main problem is : As long as people without the idea of any character RP are even unable to play an elf like an elf, playing a half elf is just another excuse to use the attributes of an elf with the behaviour of a human, thus, no "necessarity" to RP their race.

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:58 pm

Yes I don't know that ome player plays a halfdragon whatever I can name it now and here but I won't as it is not fair , still these rule were made..way back this is a "new " Generation of player and I think we should finally beginn to make a good Gm<-> Player talk and stop this "We are Gm's, we decide, you have to follow our rules, which we never change". I was there as one of this "vampire" wave rolled in and yes I was more or less a "part" of it, but I never forced rp or something..I just want the gms to stop and decide something palyerfriendly instead of "You never will be", but also the splitted up staff is confusing, Thorvald says with gm support you can play and Damien says you never will be..whats right whats wrong?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:03 pm

In my opinion this is the sort of things (the silly races, as I call them) that kill the atmosphere in Illarion from medieval to WoW (a bunch of tweens running around trying to pwn n00bs and get uber-items). I experience more medieval atmosphere in real life, thats seems fairly ironic to me. The player community is too self centered to create an enjoyable atomsphere nowdays.