Important : Reminder / Wichtig : Erinnerung

[Damien]

Recent cases show that it is necessary to remind you that playing such things as half-demons/dragons/whatevers is not allowed. Also, vampires and werewolves are not allowed.
Playing a character possessed by a powerful being is also not allowed.

We had too many poweremoted chars and too much bad RP with such characters in the past.
Since often not even elves, lizards and dwarves are played according to their race, and since no special race with the name of "werewolf", "half-something" or "vampire" exist, they are NOT TO BE PLAYED.

Characters being played like this can be permanently banned without further notice. Of course we will talk to the most players first if we catch them online.

Strictly seen, Illarion does not even have half-elves (we would need an extra character race for that). Our "explanation" for that is : things between humans and elves usually don't work too well. That means, the chance for Offspring between humans and elfs is very unlikely since they are not too compatible. But if something comes from that, which happens sometimes, the offspring is either fully human OR fully elven.


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Kürzlich aufgetretene Fälle zeigen, daß es wieder einmal Zeit ist, daran zu erinnern daß in illarion das Spielen von Halb-Dämonen/Drachen/Irgendwassen NICHT erlaubt ist.
Genauso verboten ist das RPen von Werwölfen, Vampiren, etc.

Wir hatten zu viele poweremotes und generell schlechtes RP mit solchen Charakteren in der Vergangenheit.
Da nicht einmal die meisten Elfen, Echsen und Zwerge gemäß ihrem Volk gespielt werden, und da es keine Sonderrassen mit den Namen "Werwolf", "Vampir" oder "Halb-Wasauchimmer" gibt, dürfen solche Wesen auch NICHT GESPIELT WERDEN.

Charaktere, die so gespielt werden, können ohne Angabe eines Grundes permanent gebannt werden. Natürlich bevorzugen wir es weiterhin, mit den betreffenden Spielern zu sprechen wenn wir sie online erwischen.

Strenggenommen gäbe es in Illarion auch keine Halbelfen (wir bräuchten dafür ein weiteres Volk). Unsere "Erklärung" dafür ist : Zwischen Menschen und Elfen klappt es nicht allzu besonders, die Völker sind nicht allzu kompatibel. Wenn allerdings aus einer solchen beziehung Nachwuchs entsteht, was manchmal halt passiert, ist dieser entweder ganz Mensch ODER ganz Elf.

[Guir Rabenflügel]

*fühlt sich in mehrerer hinsicht angesprochen *
Was ist dann mit den Chars, die schon seit sie angefangen haben zu spielen zum Beispiel ein Halbelf sind?

[abcfantasy]

Recent cases show that it is necessary to remind you that playing such things as half-demons/dragons/whatevers is not allowed. Also, vampires and werewolves are not allowed.
Playing a character possessed by a powerful being is also not allowed.

We had too many poweremoted chars and too much bad RP with such characters in the past.
Since often not even elves, lizards and dwarves are played according to their race, and since no special race with the name of "werewolf", "half-something" or "vampire" exist, they are NOT TO BE PLAYED.

Why not make them possible with needed applications like special races? We don't need a "race name" to play those, we can roleplay it, just like we roleplay tons of many inexisting things.

Strictly seen, Illarion does not even have half-elves (we would need an extra character race for that). Our "explanation" for that is : things between humans and elves usually don't work too well. That means, the chance for Offspring between humans and elfs is very unlikely since they are not too compatible. But if something comes from that, which happens sometimes, the offspring is either fully human OR fully elven.

What says it doesn't work well between the two? THere's a big occurrence in the popular trilogy LOTR as you surely know. Now I know illarion is not LOTR, but there is influence. I can't understand really why..."they don't work well".

[Pellandria]

Hmm ich nehme an das es nur wegen einen Char wieder gepostet wurde und das man nur eine Welle von "übermächtigen" Chars vermeiden will, persönlich finde ich es gegen jene Leute unfair, die schon Erfahrung in solch einer Rolle haben bzw. wissen wie man Rp richtig macht und nicht forct, weil der Char vermeidlich stärker ist als alle anderen, ich dneke nicht das du da irgendwelche Befürchtungen haben musst Guir.

[Damien]

There are no discussions about that. Take it as it is. Reasons are above.

Character graphics are either elf or human. They can think of themselves as "half-elf", but you don't see it. That's all about it.

---

Halb-Elfen sind, wie oben schonmal geschrieben, spielbar, sind jedoch in Wahrheit entweder Elfen oder Menschen.

[Pellandria]

Sorry to be blunt here Damien, but exactly such decission will destroy Illarion one day, staff does something, player ask and all that comes back is "we won't speak about it, take and eat it or leave".

[Korm Kormsen]

i think it good, if there are no interracial offspring.
just imagine, having some fun with your neighbour the she-dragon.
one would have to have fright of the own children.

[abcfantasy]

Why aren't there no dicussions?

Reasons above aren't detailed enough in my opinion. Things like "Because they don't go too well" isn't really an explanation. And the fact that there is no "half-elf" graphic is neither a reason. If that was a reason, then no one can play children, no one can play old people, no one can play blonde haired human males etc...

[Damien]

There's no discussion because this theme has been discussed a hundred times over and over in the past (you may find some old topics, more may be on the old illarion board) and it just doesn't need being discussed any further. You can also discuss a whole game to death.

[abcfantasy]

Maybe things have changed?
Maybe people are newer and have never seen the old board?
And I sitll think making them as "special races" can help. But then again, there's no discussions. So..*Shrugs*

I'll just do what I think I'll have fun doing and what others will have fun too.

[Damien]

Do as you wish, as long as it is no ban reason.

[Siltaris]

In terms of transparancy I suggest Damien to post one or two links to such former discussions about that topic.

However, in general I agree with Damien. Playing such characters invites people to forced RP and invites them to play somewhat like superior characters.

[abcfantasy]

In terms of transparancy I suggest Damien to post one or two links to such former discussions about that topic.

Yes better, since some n00bs want a really old, endless, enerving "but i want"- discussion again

However, in general I agree with Damien. Playing such characters invites people to forced RP and invites them to play somewhat like superior characters.

Forced RP? How?

Half-dragons and half-demons is a bit...too much...Possessed chars can be interesting if roleplayed well and for the fun of others. I'll do what's fun for me and others, as I said. And I wouldn't being getting a "permission" or needing an "application" or something to do such a thing.

[pharse]

I think the best reason why not to allow it, is experience. As written above there were some vampires etc and fact is that this didn´t work. But to be fair and without any prejudices nobody should be allowed to play such races, the more experienced players aswell. Because THIS ends always in flame wars ("why is he allowed to and I am not?!?!?!")

/Edit: everyone is allowed to play a char who THINKS that he is possessed. But no things like
#me's eyes glow red and with his laser he destroys your sword

[Pellandria]

Why do we have drows then.. hmm why are some player allowed to play them even if they are only questchars, they still log in and use their overpowered Chars for "normal" gaming?

[Jupiter]

ich verstehe nicht, warum es nicht möglich sein sollte, dass bei einer Elfen-Menschbezeihung ein Halbelf rauskommt.

Betrachten wir das ganze mal analogisch:

Bei Hunden gibt es auch Mischrassen. Hunde von einer Rasse können Welpen mit Hunden anderer Rassen bekommen.
Sie sind andere Rassen, aber von der gelcihen Tierart.

Jeder würde sagen, dass es sich bei Menschen und Elfen ähnlich verhält, sie sind von anderen Rassen aber gelicher Tierart.

Das Problem bei diesem Analogieschluss ist jedoch, dass es gewisse Faktoren gibt oder geben könnte, desswegen Auswirkungen nicht bekannt sind.

Der wichtigste Faktor sind die Götter. Mein Analogieschluss setzt voraus, dass Elfen und Menschen einer biologischen Entwicklung entstanden, aber sollten Elfen ( oder auch alle anderen Rassen ) so wie sie sind von den Göttern geschaffen worden sein, ist jeglicher logischer Versuch mit HIlfe der Biologie sinnlos. Da liegt es in den Händen der GMs eindeutige Regeln festzulegen.
Eine Liebschaft zwischen Personen unterschiedlicher Rassen ist eindeutig Möglich, da zu sind wohl bei den meißten gleiche oder ähnliche Attribute für die Sexualität vorhanden. ( Bei Echsenmenschen bin ich mir nicht sicher )

Aber nehmen wir mal das Beispiel Elf-Mensch.
Nun kann man noch unterscheiden, ob der Mensch männlich oder wieblich ist und das gleiche beim Elf, aber das wüdre jetzt zu kompliziert werden.
Nun Elf-Menschen. Die GMs haben folgende Möglichkeiten vorzuschreiben was passiert.

1. Nicht geschieht. Eine Schwangerschaft ist shclicht und einafch nicht möglich. - würde ich fraglich finden

2. Eine Todgeburt entsteht. - Für ein Spiel wäre diese Option vollkommen untragbar und moralisch mehr als fraglich.

3. Missbildungen. - Die gleiche Problematik wie bei 2.

4. Ein Kind mit leicht elfischen Attributen. - Sowas wie leicht spitze Ohren, verlängertes Leben ( länger als Menschen, kürzer als Elfen )

5. Es entsteht ein "normales" Elfen - oder Menschenkind. Da kann man dann unterscheiden, ob der Mensch oder Elf weiblich oder männlich war. - Und das meine Damien ja auch und ich denke es wäre die beste Lösung. Wobei man ganz klar sagen muss, dass es kein normales KInd wäre. Es hätte Gene von beiden Rassen, bloß haben diese keinen wircklichen Effekt, da die Menschengene vielleicht von den Elfengenen niedergemacht werden ( oder andersrum )

Jedoch sollte es nicht bei allen Rassen kalppen. Hier meine Vorschlagsliste:

Elf - Mensch. 5.
Halbling - Mensch. 5.
Echse - jede anderer Rasse. 1. ( wenn man annimmt das Echsenmenschen etwas mit anderen Rassen haben können )
Ork - jede andere Rasse. 1.
Fee - jede andere Rasse. 1. ( Feen können agrncihst mit anderen Rassen ahben. da sind wir uns all einig )
Goblin - Gnom. 5.
Elf - Halbling. 1. ( Ich denke für 5. wäre es dann dch zu unterschiedlich )
Mensch - Halbling. 5. ( Vielleicht ein etwas kleinerer Mensch als der Durchschnitt )
Zwerg - Halbling. 5.
Zwerg - Mensch. 5.
Goblin - Elf/Mensch 1.
Gnome - Elf/Mensch 1.

So... Drows lasse ich mal weg, die würden sich NIE mit welchen einer anderen Rasse einlassen, daher ist darüber anch zu denken unsinn.

Will das jemand übersetzten?

[Korm Kormsen]

öhem....

wenn ich mir die ganzen elfen im spiel anschau, die sich benehmen wie gruene witwen, mit ansichten aus der vorstadt, dann find ich, wir koennen die rassen garnicht stark genug abgrenzen.

wir haben furchtbar viel spieler, bei denen man die rasse des chars wirklich nur am avatar erkennen kann.

alle sind demokratisch, alle sind humanistisch (elfanistisch)...

wenn ich einen von meinen barbaren mal was leicht barbarisches sagen lasse, gibt's gleich ne "huch!"-reaktion.

vo daher waeren mischlinge gift fuers roleplay. es wuerden alle nur noch mehr angeglichen.

[Retlak]

Pellandria, the drow quest is big. They log in occasionally for a few minutes sometimes to get themselves back to camp (That mage you saw in varshikar yesterday, was walking back to the camp, but decided to have fun with the disgusting humans).

Other times it is a private quest when you see them online, where it isn't announced.

Please refrain from being Patric.

[Alytys Lamar]

das ist ein Punkt wo ich Kormy recht geben muß.

Letztens hab ich miterlebt wie ein Elfin *superlieb* zu einem Orc war und ihn dann auch noch gefüttert hat. >.< Da hab ich mich echt gefragt wo ich nun gelandet bin.

Hat aber mit der primären Frage hier nichts zu tun .. da tendiere ich eher zu abcfantasy's Sicht.

---------------------

Kormy has a point here, I agree totally with.

Not long ago I saw a Elfess, who acted *super lovely* towards an Orc, and then she feeds him up >.< I asked me really where I've been after this scene.

But this has nothing to do with the primary question here ... my tendency is to agree with abcfantasy's view.

[Djironnyma]

die sind nichtmal elfisch, die meisten verwechseln Elfen mit Alice Schwarzer in hübsch

[abcfantasy]

What Pellandria said was an answer to this:

Because THIS ends always in flame wars ("why is he allowed to and I am not?!?!?!")

Anyway, I have two proposals/tips which I already mentioned:

1. Require special applications for possession or "special races"...

2. Do -anything- as long as it will be fun for the others.

[ogerawa]

I wonder what the drows were up to when they robbed the elfess in bane.

[Damien]

If we allowed possession or such, every second player would play his char as possessed because it's thought to be cool.

[abcfantasy]

It was never "not allowed", or at least, no where was it written. Yet we don't have every second player with a possessed char.

I agree that there may be some if not many that roleplay a possessed char but leads to horrible rp, but that shouldn't and won't prevent me from having one of mine possessed.

[Llama]

Half-demons, half-dragons and vampires I can agree with.

Half elves.. why not?

There are no bonuses for playing elves or anything, so there isn't going to be anything lyke "I am a half elf, I can take the elvish power of bla bla bla" stuff.

Also the "don't have graphics" thing is also a stupid argument. We don't have graphics for men with black hair either... Neither do we have graphics for eating...

.: You can't eat or have a man with black hair.
-
The whole "We make the rules, you obey them, no discussion" will not make anyone happy...

But if something comes from that, which happens sometimes, the offspring is either fully human OR fully elven.

And mating horses with donkeys results in a horse or a donkey child...

Not very logical either...

[Thorvald]

öhem....

wenn ich mir die ganzen elfen im spiel anschau, die sich benehmen wie gruene witwen, mit ansichten aus der vorstadt, dann find ich, wir koennen die rassen garnicht stark genug abgrenzen.

wir haben furchtbar viel spieler, bei denen man die rasse des chars wirklich nur am avatar erkennen kann.

alle sind demokratisch, alle sind humanistisch (elfanistisch)...

wenn ich einen von meinen barbaren mal was leicht barbarisches sagen lasse, gibt's gleich ne "huch!"-reaktion.

vo daher waeren mischlinge gift fuers roleplay. es wuerden alle nur noch mehr angeglichen.

I couldn't put it better than Kormson, so I will translate his main point:

We have a lot of players where you can only recognize the char by looking at it's graphic.

Everyone is democratic, everyone is humanistic.
So half breeds would be poison for the game. There would be just much more adaption.

I'm not willed to walk up to players, like William Elderberry, Kevin Lightdot or someone like Taylor Windslasher, who have played their half breed chars for ages, and tell them not to play their pointy ears anymore.

But it would be nice if in future people would refrain from creating such chars. Like Damien put it, either Human or Elf.

[Pellandria]

Uhm we allready have strict name rules, why don't we have an gm watching over "possessed/strange" chars also, I mean if he plays a good role then let him, if its bad, talk with him and he/her changes his/her play or gets banned, whats so hard with this?

[Damien]

Just the first discussion topics i found quickly.
Many old links to those don't exist anymore on the forums though. These three (and lots of others, if you seek) do.

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... s+vampires
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... s+vampires
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... s+vampires

And that's only some NOT from the internal boards.

[Thorvald]

And mating horses with donkeys results in a horse or a donkey child... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

Not very logical either...

We are a fantasy roleplay game. If the gods don't want halfbreeds, there are none

I agree that there may be some if not many that roleplay a possessed char but leads to horrible rp, but that shouldn't and won't prevent me from having one of mine possessed.

Let me tell you what happened to me exactly yesterday. I was talking to a player who played such a "supernatural" char. And what did I get as a reply? "Why can't I play this? PersonX is playing it as well"

That's the reason why these things should be discussed with GMs before and should go with GM permission. So that there is some order, not too much power-rp, and according to the Illarion background.
Because otherwise we don't have any "normal" chars at all anymore in Illarion, but everyone is playing some possessed, supernatural, half-demon-half-vampire char with glowing eyes. (Yes I exaggerated a bit.)

It shouldn't be too hard to speak with GMs about these things before. And you should know that well.

Uhm we allready have strict name rules, why don't we have an gm watching over "possessedstrange" chars also, I mean if he plays a good role then let him, if its bad, tlak with him and he/her changes his play or gets banned, whats so hard with this?

... what do you think are we doing?

I've talked to 3 persons lately who are doing these kind of RP.
Also this will soon be added to the rules.

[Retlak]

My Orc is stiiiiill 'semi-possessed'.